Iraqi prisoner "abuse"

[KindredSpirt4125]

I recieved this e-mail today, and I though I'd share it. What are your thoughts...do you think the U.S. should apologize for taking embarassing photo's of war criminals? I don't know who wrote this, but I think he makes a valid point.

(Author unknown - sentiment shared.)

>

> For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an

issue.

> On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity

of

> the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take

control

> and fashion this minor event into some modern day My Lai massacre.

>

> I heard some Arabs and Muslims are asking for an apology. I humbly

> offer mine here:

>

> I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and

> sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims

> (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).

>

> I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came

> after 9/11. I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were

> Islamic Arabs.

>

> I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under

> savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their

> wealth. I

> am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their

> religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.

>

> I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country

and

> highjacked the Palestinian "cause". I am sorry that no other Arab

> country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial

> help to those same Palestinians.

>

> I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial

> supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs

> blame the USA for all their problems.

>

> I am sorry that our own left wing elite, our media, and our own

> brainwashed (from elements of our society like radical professors,

> CNN and the NY TIMES) masses do not understand any of this.

> I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out

> of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common

> folk suffered.

>

> I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide

> bombers upon their death. I am sorry that those same bombers are

> brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."

>

> I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies,

> children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are a

> legitimate

> targets.

>

> I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape

> rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own

> making.

>

> I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than

> any other group.

>

> I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize

> control

> of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state. I am sorry we don't

drop

> a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.

>

> I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy

> Site". I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the

> World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint

Nicholas

> Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.

>

> I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS

Cole,

> the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg

> and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc!

>

> I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized

> village in Africa.

>

> America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those

> responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty

> laundry

> for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we

> are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab

> countries that are now demanding an apology.

>

> Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news,

> we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few

> prisoners.

>

> Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until

> captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're

> supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our

> compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people

> killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating

> Fallujans.

>

> If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a

> long

> wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.

********************************************************************

Ok, well here are my thoughts on this:

NO, I don't think we have any reason to apologize. If you noticed, most of the photographs of the prisoners were made by women. Now had the situation been reversed, and those women were the prisioners in Iraq, compromising photographs would be the least of their problems. They would be raped, sodomized, tortured and beaten. Should I mention Private Jessica Lench here?

Personally, I can't even believe they had the odassity to ask for an apology.

Please don't be offended, this is only my opinion.

**Agree, or disagree?**

[doomgirl]

Considering that the American Government went over there to free the people, I think they should apologise to them for the humiliation they have put these people through.

[KindredSpirt4125]

Um, the people who are in our prisons are not the ones we went over there to free. They are war criminals. Why should we apologize for taking stupid pictures of war criminals, when they are raping and beheading our troops?

[babyforrest]

Wasn't it like 90% of the people in the prisons were completely innocent? They just had them to question them, they didn't do anything wrong but be born an Iraqi.

[Fluffybunny]

It is hard to say...I don't know who was in the prison to begin with. I don't know what criteria was used to imprison the folks that were in there.

If the people that were in the prison being photographed naked in dog piles were innocent, then there definately is a problem. It is hard to justify overthrowing a government on humanitarian issues when the invaders are stripping down innocent people and humiliating them in some of the worst ways possible.

It sends a mixed message to say the least.

It is hard to justify anyway as I don't see much of a reason to do what they did. It is one thing if a prisoner gets roughed up a bit trying to avoid being captured, or in a struggle in the prison; that would be understandable.

I don't see any reason to strip prisoners down and have them simulate sex with each other. We can't do it legally in the US prison system, why should it be OK there?

[Talon]

Well as much as the artical does make valid points, it should be remembed we're trying to pass ourselves off as the bastilons of freedom and liberty. They can do all these things cause their nations are fanatical, fascist, and culturally 700-years backward (call me racist if you want, but its true ). We can't do what they do because it makes us appear just the same as them... even though we're not (we don't cut prisioners heads off).

We should remember these people are the equivent of Christains 700 years ago, we can't expect them to act like civilised rational westerners (thats the countries, and religious fanatics, not all Arabs).

Anyway, if the US did apologise, maybe it should do so by reading that transcript out on national tv.

Disclaimer: God, the Arabs on the site are so gonna hammer me for this

[Fluffybunny]

Disclaimer: God, the Arabs on the site are so gonna hammer me for this

Don't worry, I've got your back...

Disclaimer:(Unless there is a god and he is p***ed; then I'd be limited in how much help I could offer you.)

[Erikl]

We should remember these people are the equivent of Christains 700 years ago, we can't expect them to act like civilised rational westerners

I think this is the root for all the problem Israel have with EU.... Europe do not expect that the Palestinians should act humanely, so they don't condemn them... that's pretty prejudiced of the EU politicians if you ask me...

[KindredSpirt4125]

Just to clear things up, I don't think that humiliating the prisoners was right, by ANY means!! I just don't the U.S. needs to apologize for some pictures. And when they stop sawing off our soldiers heads, then, maybe then, they can ask for an apology.

[Talon]

Disclaimer:(Unless there is a god and he is p***ed; then I'd be limited in how much help I could offer you.)

lol

Disclaimer:(Unless there is a god and he is p***ed; then I'd be limited in how much help I could offer you.)

Dude, I've told you a hundred times, their is not a European conspiricy against Isreal.

And atually we do expect them to act humanely, their not animals, I'm talking about the religious fanatics and elements of their culture here, doesn't change the fact their people too.

Edited July 28, 2004 by Talon S.

[Erikl]

Dude, I've told you a hundred times, their is not a European conspiricy against Isreal.

Just trying to understand why the EU is so against us... and ofcourse that a conspiracy is possible - after all most of Europe is united, isn't it so? so all that is left is that a unified Europe decides on a certain foreign policy. If all EU members, or most of them, seem to agree on how to deal with Israel, then there you go - a conspiracy

btw - happy birthday bro!

[KindredSpirt4125]

Yes, Happy birthday Talon!!!!!! Shall I sing to you?

[babyforrest]

I just don't the U.S. needs to apologize for some pictures. And when they stop sawing off our soldiers heads, then, maybe then, they can ask for an apology.

The US soldiers should not be able to do whatever they want to their POWs. They are expected to act better than the people whose country they invaded. Wasn't the (new) whole point of the war to liberate the Iraqi people from the evil ones?

Enough of the world was upset with the war in the beginning. Now with the abuse photos, of course they should apologize. Do you like the idea of the rest of the world thinking very little of your country?

[Talon]

Yes, Happy birthday Talon!!!!!! Shall I sing to you?

.... ....Sure go ahead

[babyforrest]

Happy Birthday Talon S.

I'll join the chorus.

[KindredSpirt4125]

(Singing in her sexy Marilyn Monroe voice)

Happy birthday to you..happy birthday to you..happy BIRTHDAY, dear Talon, happy birthday to you!

[KindredSpirt4125]

I just don't the U.S. needs to apologize for some pictures. And when they stop sawing off our soldiers heads, then, maybe then, they can ask for an apology.

The US soldiers should not be able to do whatever they want to their POWs. They are expected to act better than the people whose country they invaded. Wasn't the (new) whole point of the war to liberate the Iraqi people from the evil ones?

Enough of the world was upset with the war in the beginning. Now with the abuse photos, of course they should apologize. Do you like the idea of the rest of the world thinking very little of your country?

If it was really abuse sure we should apologize. Embarassment is not abuse. They are naked pictures for godsakes. We didn't rape or sodamize them. That's abuse. Tell them to apologize..till then they can kiss our big american a$$!

[Talon]

Happy birthday to you..happy birthday to you..happy BIRTHDAY, dear Talon, happy birthday to you!

Yay, thankyou. (Seriously, only one person sung happy brithday to me today so even if I can't hear you I'm grateful for it )

[KindredSpirt4125]

Anytime! Oh, you can return the favor for me in 3 weeks from today! I'll be waiting !

[babyforrest]

On CNN they said that the prisoners were piled on top of each other naked and sodomized with broom handles. Among other things.

[KindredSpirt4125]

Speculation. I'm still not saying it's right, I'm saying we will not and should not apologize. If those people that took the photo's want to apologize then they should go on ahead.

[babyforrest]

I'm saying we will not and should not apologize.

I disagree. There will be an apology.

[Talon]

Anytime! Oh, you can return the favor for me in 3 weeks from today! I'll be waiting

Will do, but be warned, I have a horrible singing voice

On CNN they said that the prisoners were piled on top of each other naked and sodomized with broom handles.

I don't know about the Broomhandles, but the Scottish newspapers were showing the pics where they were piled up naked so its definatly true.

[KindredSpirt4125]

I was talking speculation about the broom handles, not the pics. Although, some of those were proven to be a hoax. I said SOME..not all.

**Talon I will be waiting for my song though **

[babyforrest]

Which ones were proven to be a hoax? Why would they make fake abuse pictures? They want to be in more trouble than they are already in?