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saucy

Who Will Win the 2004 Election?

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saucy

This debate will be a one on one match to fight over who will win the 2004 election, George W. Bush or John Kerry. The debaters have to start with an introduction, followed by four body posts and a rebuttal. Post if you share interest in this debate, along with the candidate you want to support. Once I get one supporter of Bush and one supporter of Kerry, we will get started. Good luck to all.

Edited by saucy

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Wings of Selkhet

I'll debate on Kerry's behalf.

You know, they say there are two things you should never debate...politics and religion. Guess I'm feeling a bit rebellious. tongue.gif

Edited by Wings of Selkhet

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saucy

lol. Is anyone willing to debate on Bush's behalf? I know there's a lot of Bush fans out there. Where are you? If nobody shows up, I might have to debate this one. wink2.gif

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earthygirl04
Sorry, I just ain't to happy with either one. I say we need someone else to run for presidency. Bush has only put us in war, and now surounding countries are begining to be against us too, which could possibly start another world war eventually. crying.gif Bush also has cut medicaid expenses for the poor and elderly that they can't afford to get their medicine, and he has cut wel-fare down so much that there are old people dying of starvation!! As for Kerry, I've heard some bad stuff about him as well, although at this very moment I can't recall what I heard, guess I'm too tired.. wink2.gif All I know is what I heard I didn't like! whistling2.gif

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saucy

Okay, that post had no point. Does someone want to argue for Bush?

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Nxt2Hvn

I am a big BUSH SUPPORTER... and will definitely vote for BUSH!

But I am not up to debating this topic...I am way too passionate about this issue... and feel I would get out of hand.

So I will just say

VOTE BUSH 2004

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snuffypuffer

See link in signature, call me in the morning. thumbsup.gif

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reese2

Ummm..... I will debate on behalf of Bush.... Just make sure that you give me time, since I am in and out of here as of late...

I don't know if we can actually debate which will win, but we could debate on why each should win or why each would win the election..

Reese

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saucy

Okay, how about a triple threat debate.

Wings of Selkhet=Kerry

Reese2=Bush

Snuffypuffer=Nader

Just whoever starts first starts. Start off with an introduction and follow that with four body posts and end it with a conclusion. Have fun and good luck

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snuffypuffer

Okay I'm in.

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Saru

We need Reese, Snuffy or Skhelet to post to get this debate going.

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reese2

I will be on this ASAP.. I have been sick this past week, and Falcon has just started school, so as soon as the kinks wear themselves out, I will be right on it! thumbsup.gif

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snuffypuffer

I was waiting for someone to throw the first punch, er, make the first argument. Sooooo, since everyone's getting antsie, I'll start things off.

Ralph Nader is running for President because the Republicans and Democrats like to perpetuate the myth that there are only two parties to choose from in the upcoming election. Third party candidates have a long and storied history in American politics, and we need an alternative choice in times like these. Ralph Nader wants to put an end to the unnecessary and wasteful war in Iraq, to provide affordable health care to all Americans, to provide a broad, fair, and equal education for every child, and to implement a fair and sane tax system. In the following debate, I hope to go into each of the points on Ralph's platform in detail, and to prove why he is the best choice for President in 2004.

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snuffypuffer

I'm waiting.....

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reese2

Sorry for the wait Snuffs.....

Opener:

I believe that Bush will remain the President of the United States for the next four years. Mostly because he has had the strength and determination to broach difficult and exhausting issues. Showing the courage to look beyond the rewards of the now. He sees a future that can and will be free of terrorism. He gave hope to a country full of scared people after 9-11, proving to us all that he will not tolerate intimidation. He has stood tall, while his reputation has been tattered to bits, unshakingly. He will be the next President, because people do not want change right now. We have been safe, relatively, since he put his foot down, September 12, 2001. The majority of people crave saftey now, more than popularity, and a change, would only make the American public feel as fragile as we never knew we were, before September 11th.

A President that worries over incurring loss of it's fair weathered allies, will never get the approval of people that worry about their own safety.

Reese

(Sorry if this is short, but it is only an opener, so I felt like I should just stick to a few key points) Plus, it is my first debate...

Now, on with the Kerry debater!!

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Wings of Selkhet

blink.gif Woah, sorry, I forgot I even signed up for this one! (It's my first, too, Reese. *shakes hand*)

Introduction:

George W. Bush is not evil. He is not Hitler. He is not Satan. I am not here to prove to everyone how Bush is encouraging the downfall of civilization. It's simply not true. I am sure that he believes with full conviction that what he has done during his presidency is right. However, just because George W. Bush is not a terrible man does not mean that he hasn't made mistakes during his presidency. Everyone makes mistakes - this is true. In a perfect world, anyone who makes mistakes would be forgiven completely - but Bush doesn't have that luxury. He is the President of the United States. The truth is that there are certain things for which he cannot be forgiven. Because of this, I am certain that John Kerry is going to win the 2004 election.

The fact is that Bush has not made our country any safer. He has done little to nothing extraordinary for America or other countries. He has been, at best, a mediocre President.

John Kerry isn't perfect. Just as I'm not here to prove that Bush is the antichrist, I'm not here to prove that Kerry is going to "save America" and correct all of the wrongs in American society. However, he is the best alternative to our current President, and I'm here to prove that the majority of America recognizes that as well and will vote for him in November of 2004.

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snuffypuffer

I believe that George Bush has been a mediocre President at best, as Selkhet states, and at worst, a dangerous liability whose blunders while in office will have effects that will haunt us for decades to come. But, I cannot simply vote for the man who has the best chance to get Bush out of office, my conscience won't allow that. As a human being I still feel that I must support the man who is most likely to do the best job while in office. That man is Ralph Nader.

I'll get right into this by dealing with the 900 pound gorilla first. The war in Iraq has become a quagmire, with no clear outcome, and no quick fix. The reasons for the occupation remain murky at best, sinister at worst, and every day our military stays in Iraq diminishes our credibility with the world at large, and ignores more pressing domestic issues. Further occupation by America only serves as a magnet for insurrection, kidnapping, terrorism, and anarchy (the preceding statement is taken directly from Ralph Nader's campaign site.) We did what we went there to do, it is time to do the right thing, by the Iraqi people and ours, and announce the withdrawal of our troops in the region, and give true rule of Iraq back to it's people. This will be achieved in three steps, also taken directly from votenader.org

Develop an appropriate peace-keeping force under United Nations auspices from neutral nations with such experience and from Islamic countries. This force should begin to promptly replace all U.S. troops and civilian contractors. Former general Wesley Clark described Bush foreign policy as cowboy unilateralism that goes against everything the U.S. is supposed to represent to the world. It is time for the U.S. to return to the family of nations. The U.S. will have to underwrite a portion of this less expensive short-term force.

2.

Free and fair elections should be held as soon as possible under international supervision so democratic self-rule can be put in place in Iraq and allowing Iraq to provide for its own security. Iraq is a country long controlled by a brutal dictator, devastated by economic sanctions and torn apart by war. Some autonomy for Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds makes a new government more workable. Iraq will sort out these issues more easily without the presence of a US occupying force and the projected 14 US military bases that Iraqis see as installing a puppet government fronting for an indefinite military and oil industry occupation.

3.

The U.S. and others should provide interim humanitarian aid to Iraq. Economic sanctions and war have resulted in tremendous damage to people, their children and the Iraqi infrastructure. Until the 1991 Gulf War, Hussein was a US anti-communist ally also used to keep Iran at bay. During the 1980s under Reagan and Bush I US corporations were licensed to export materials to Iraq for chemical and biological weapons. US oil and other corporations should not profit from the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. Control over Iraqi oil and other assets should be exercised by Iraqis.

We need to save what we can of the situation, and do the right thing before conditions get even worse than they already are. The politics of fear are failing, we have no choice but to dig ourselves out of this hole. There is a stable way out, without worsening our relations with the Muslim world, and Ralph Nader is the one man running for office who has the fortitude to take that step.

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snuffypuffer

Where did everybody go? crying.gif

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BurnSide

Sorry MarthMadness, formal debates are for the debaters only and as such i've deleted your post.

As for the debate, we're looking for a comment from reese but since she's unable to comment at the moment i'm concerned as to what do do. Close the thread until she returns?

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snuffypuffer

Yeah, she's otherwise engaged right now. What about Wings? She's in this too.

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BurnSide

You could go at it together but then it wouldn't be a triple threat debate.

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BurnSide

Please, everyone, this is a FORMAL DEBATE. Comments are unwanted, except for those from the debaters alone.

As it is, i've decided i'm going to close this debate. Once Reese gets back she can send me a message saying if she'd like to continue the debate.

Edited by BurnSide

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saucy

Hey burnsy, Go ahead and allow this one to be judged as is. Too much time has passed so there should be a winner crowned by default, I suggest snuffy for he has been the most involved.

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BurnSide

Hrmm.. but they only really got their introductory posts done.

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saucy

Then that's even more reason to shut this one down if it's been up this long and only introductions are done.

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