Possible Megalodon in Mariana trench

[ShadowSot]

other sharks have to surface every half hour or so for air don't they?

Nope. Gills. Some sharks never even get near the surface.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

how could a meat eating creture live at such depths without having to surface for air?

it could'nt!and since they have to surface for air,is it very nearly a certainty one would have been seen by now?

You do know fish have gills dont you? Good grief.

[grendals_bane]

other sharks have to surface every half hour or so for air don't they?

Some fish come to the surface for air, usual though in fresh water that is lacking in oxygen, so they take a gulp of air every now and then to top up.

[TheSearcher]

Some fish come to the surface for air, usual though in fresh water that is lacking in oxygen, so they take a gulp of air every now and then to top up.

Most fishes never come to the surface for air. Most 'breath' water, extracting oxygen from water they pump across their gills. Frequently fish in oxygen depleted water will rise to the surface and take in water from just below the surface because there is usually a higher concentration of oxygen there. Fish 'gasping' at the surface usually indicates that the water quality has deteriorated. Not a frequent occurrence in the sea.

As to sharks, Sand Tiger Sharks are the only shark known to come to the surface and gulp air. They store the air in their stomachs, which allows them to float motionless in the water, seeking prey. In their case it's not even for breathing purposes, but for buoyancy.

[grendals_bane]

Most fishes never come to the surface for air. Most 'breath' water, extracting oxygen from water they pump across their gills. Frequently fish in oxygen depleted water will rise to the surface and take in water from just below the surface because there is usually a higher concentration of oxygen there. Fish 'gasping' at the surface usually indicates that the water quality has deteriorated. Not a frequent occurrence in the sea.

As to sharks, Sand Tiger Sharks are the only shark known to come to the surface and gulp air. They store the air in their stomachs, which allows them to float motionless in the water, seeking prey. In their case it's not even for breathing purposes, but for buoyancy.

That's why I said "some fish" and "fresh water". I wasn't suggesting sharks or other salt water fish do it.

[Dementis Inferi]

You should go read MEG by Steve Alten. It's a great book.

[Drunkenparrot]

That's why I said "some fish" and "fresh water". I wasn't suggesting sharks or other salt water fish do it.

Here's one...

Siamese fighting fish

[j b]

Here's one...

Siamese fighting fish

when i was in highschool, i worked in the sporting goods department in walmart... i was selling a betta fish to someone and as i was retrieving it... it jumped out of the net and into another betta's tank... lets just say only one made it out alive... what a sight though...

[tyminner]

some of the people on this site must have failed biology class...

[Drunkenparrot]

some of the people on this site must have failed biology class...

As long as folks are interested in learning I don't see a problem?

[TheSearcher]

That's why I said "some fish" and "fresh water". I wasn't suggesting sharks or other salt water fish do it.

Ok, sorry, I misinterpreted that then. My bad.

As long as folks are interested in learning I don't see a problem?

Quite right mate.

[Welder]

You do all realize that a Meg tooth was dredged from the sea floor in recent times, that was dated to only 10,000 years ago right?. It was still white. This is around the time North American's were coming from Asia across the land bridge. 10,000 years if Not that long in the evolutionary chain. It is feasible that these sharks could exist and be feeding on sperm whales, as well as giant squid. Think of it this way. Great Whites are primarily warm water fish, (South Africa, Australia, California, etc), however, and here's the catcher. We get them very often here too in the North Pacific. More than 40 carcasses have been found over the years and quite a few live ones. Our waters are cold. Fish can adapt very well to their environment, and food source. Being a very large fish, it would prefer deeper waters, and if the food source were abundant EG Sperm Whales and giant squid, it would have little reason to venture close to the surface. Many shark species congregate in small areas, and some species travel thousands of kilometers yearly to migrate. If Meg does exist the trench would be a good spot to look.

[xYlvax]

As long as folks are interested in learning I don't see a problem?

There's a difference between learning something wrong and something right But true true.

[xYlvax]

You do all realize that a Meg tooth was dredged from the sea floor in recent times, that was dated to only 10,000 years ago right?. It was still white. This is around the time North American's were coming from Asia across the land bridge. 10,000 years if Not that long in the evolutionary chain. It is feasible that these sharks could exist and be feeding on sperm whales, as well as giant squid. Think of it this way. Great Whites are primarily warm water fish, (South Africa, Australia, California, etc), however, and here's the catcher. We get them very often here too in the North Pacific. More than 40 carcasses have been found over the years and quite a few live ones. Our waters are cold. Fish can adapt very well to their environment, and food source. Being a very large fish, it would prefer deeper waters, and if the food source were abundant EG Sperm Whales and giant squid, it would have little reason to venture close to the surface. Many shark species congregate in small areas, and some species travel thousands of kilometers yearly to migrate. If Meg does exist the trench would be a good spot to look.

Sperm whales only stay in the deep waters to hunt the giant squid. And as Mattshark said many pages before this, the trench is not a suitable habitat for the meg because it's a coastline shark.

[Clobhair-cean]

You do all realize that a Meg tooth was dredged from the sea floor in recent times, that was dated to only 10,000 years ago right?. It was still white. This is around the time North American's were coming from Asia across the land bridge. 10,000 years if Not that long in the evolutionary chain. It is feasible that these sharks could exist and be feeding on sperm whales, as well as giant squid. Think of it this way. Great Whites are primarily warm water fish, (South Africa, Australia, California, etc), however, and here's the catcher. We get them very often here too in the North Pacific. More than 40 carcasses have been found over the years and quite a few live ones. Our waters are cold. Fish can adapt very well to their environment, and food source. Being a very large fish, it would prefer deeper waters, and if the food source were abundant EG Sperm Whales and giant squid, it would have little reason to venture close to the surface. Many shark species congregate in small areas, and some species travel thousands of kilometers yearly to migrate. If Meg does exist the trench would be a good spot to look.

Actually, the scientific consensus about Megalodon is that it died out about 1.5 million years ago. The dating of that one tooth is likely to be some kind of error.

[Welder]

Actually, the scientific consensus about Megalodon is that it died out about 1.5 million years ago. The dating of that one tooth is likely to be some kind of error.

I actually tend to think you're wrong on that fact. The scientific consensus is 10,000 years ago.

Also ^ to the poster above it's sheer speculation that the Meg was a coastal shark, and if it was it's very possible that it has adapted to a different food source once the larger prey in the sea began to extinguish. If it is indeed a deep water shark it's prey would almost certainly be sperm whales and massive squid. Sperm whales dive very deep and are always on the hunt. They favor trenches for hunting the squid.

The Colossal Squid could also be a viable food source for these sharks if evolution had allowed them to adapt to colder water like their great white cousins. This is very possible. Another cousin of the great white, the salmon shark lives in the cold waters off Alaska.

The one thing people are not counting on with this theory obviously is evolution and adaptation. Sharks have even adapted to inhabit bodies of fresh water. Take the bull shark of Zambezi for instance. There's also documented cases of Great Whites venturing into bodies of fresh water. Fish, like land animals evolve and adapt to their environment needs.

If something drove the Meg into deep water for necessity of survival, it's quite and very possible that it could survive. Great whites have been spotted at over 1300 feet down. In fact one chewed a camera off a sub down there. There's nothing biological, or physical, that would stop a Meg from existing down there. Particularily if they've adapted to low light levels. Also for the record there was no error in the dating of the tooth. This is a recent discovery. Another was found that was only 44,000 years old. Science is just beginning to examine our oceans. There's things down there yet to be discovered that will blow our minds for years to come. The Coelacanth. The Megamouth, The Frilled shark.... All recently discovered prehistoric species dating back millions of years, and all found perfectly alive. I've heard the theories where some people think that Meg couldn't follow it's prey into colder waters, or the theories, where smaller more agile great whites ate their food source, however, both of those are just theories, and knowing what I know about adaptation, and the ability to rapidly change their habits based on food sources, I believe it's completely feasible that these sharks may not be extinct. All sightings that have been reported, have also oddly all claimed that the Meg is a ghostly white color. (Many documented sightings although yet to be proven). You'll find more info the more you research. Some of it is a bit hard to find. In fact apart from the trench there has also been recent sightings of "Meg" in the Sea of Cortez off Baja.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Welder

[Clobhair-cean]

I actually tend to think you're wrong on that fact. The scientific consensus is 10,000 years ago.

I actually tend to think that the BBC, the San Diego Natural History Museum and practically every other source of repute knows better then you.

Also ^ to the poster above it's sheer speculation that the Meg was a coastal shark, and if it was it's very possible that it has adapted to a different food source once the larger prey in the sea began to extinguish. If it is indeed a deep water shark it's prey would almost certainly be sperm whales and massive squid. Sperm whales dive very deep and are always on the hunt. They favor trenches for hunting the squid.

The Colossal Squid could also be a viable food source for these sharks if evolution had allowed them to adapt to colder water like their great white cousins. This is very possible. Another cousin of the great white, the salmon shark lives in the cold waters off Alaska.

The one thing people are not counting on with this theory obviously is evolution and adaptation. Sharks have even adapted to inhabit bodies of fresh water. Take the bull shark of Zaire for instance. There's also documented cases of Great Whites venturing into bodies of fresh water. Fish, like land animals evolve and adapt to their environment needs.

If something drove the Meg into deep water for necessity of survival, it's quite and very possible that it could survive. Great whites have been spotted at over 1300 feet down. In fact one chewed a camera off a sub down there. There's nothing biological, or physical, that would stop a Meg from existing down there. Particularily if they've adapted to low light levels. Also for the record there was no error in the dating of the tooth. This is a recent discovery. Another was found that was only 44,000 years old. Science is just beginning to examine our oceans. There's things down there yet to be discovered that will blow our minds for years to come. The Coelacanth. The Megamouth, The Frilled shark.... All recently discovered prehistoric species dating back millions of years, and all found perfectly alive. I've heard the theories where some people think that Meg couldn't follow it's prey into colder waters, or the theories, where smaller more agile great whites ate their food source, however, both of those are just theories, and knowing what I know about adaptation, and the ability to rapidly change their habits based on food sources, I believe it's completely feasible that these sharks may not be extinct. All sightings that have been reported, have also oddly all claimed that the Meg is a ghostly white color. (Many documented sightings although yet to be proven). You'll find more info the more you research. Some of it is a bit hard to find. In fact apart from the trench there has also been recent sightings of "Meg" in the Sea of Cortez off Baja.

Do you realise that every single one of these claims have been refuted over and over again in this thread?

[Welder]

I actually tend to think that the BBC, the San Diego Natural History Museum and practically every other source of repute knows better then you.

Do you realise that every single one of these claims have been refuted over and over again in this thread?

*Shrug* I don't know what else to say to someone who refutes the credibility on dated teeth from 10,000 years to 44,000 years, when BBC and San Diego Natural History Museum are not the ones in possession of the teeth.

Also how do you know what my educational background is?. I have not shred a moment's insight into who I may be, nor what I may know. If these things have been discussed great, but they are very valid points. Salmon Sharks, and Great Whites, and even another cousin the Mako are all found in both cold and warmer waters. There's no evidence that Meg could also not survive multi temp zones.

It's pointless to argue. Skeptics will always refute any proof found, until an actual corpse or living species is found. Perhaps one day when technology gives us the ability to explore further we'll have more answers.

[+HerNibs]

You do all realize that a Meg tooth was dredged from the sea floor in recent times, that was dated to only 10,000 years ago right?. It was still white. This is around the time North American's were coming from Asia across the land bridge. 10,000 years if Not that long in the evolutionary chain. It is feasible that these sharks could exist and be feeding on sperm whales, as well as giant squid. Think of it this way. Great Whites are primarily warm water fish, (South Africa, Australia, California, etc), however, and here's the catcher. We get them very often here too in the North Pacific. More than 40 carcasses have been found over the years and quite a few live ones. Our waters are cold. Fish can adapt very well to their environment, and food source. Being a very large fish, it would prefer deeper waters, and if the food source were abundant EG Sperm Whales and giant squid, it would have little reason to venture close to the surface. Many shark species congregate in small areas, and some species travel thousands of kilometers yearly to migrate. If Meg does exist the trench would be a good spot to look.

Is this the incident you mean? The tooth was found in 1872. Even this website that supports cryptozoology admits that the experts generally agree upon time of the megalodon is 1.5 million years.

Our knowledge of the megalodon shark comes from fossilized teeth that have been found throughout the world. Like other sharks the body would of had cartilage instead of bones, so the rest of the body would not fossilize. The tooth remnants are found to be 3 to 4 times the size of great white shark teeth. They can have a diagonal length of over 6 inches with sharp serrations along the edge. Most experts believe that the megalodon shark went extinct about 1.5 million years ago.

At least one expert disagreed with the timetable for megalodon extinction. In 1872, the HMS Challenger conducted a four year scientific expedition dredging and mapping the seafloor of the Pacific. Examples of megalodon shark teeth were found in the depths of the Mariana Trench. The Mariana trench is 1500 miles long, 40 miles wide and so deep that you could place Mt. Everest inside it without breaking the surface. The type of area that could easily hide an aquatic species. In 1959, Dr. W. Tschernezky of London’s Queen Mary College analyzed a megalodon shark tooth found by the Challenger expedition and estimated in to be only 10,000 years old. His method of dating was based on measuring the manganese dioxide deposits around the teeth and is widely questioned by most scientists. Supporters of the remnant population theory believe that Tschernezky findings show that it is still possible that the megalodon is still around today.

Most experts agree with Dr. Tom Demere, the Curator of Paleontology at the San Diego Museum of Natural History. He does not believe that it is possible for a remnant population of megalodon sharks to be alive in the Sea of Cortez. He points out that this type of shark did not inhabit these waters 2 million years ago so it would not make sense for them to be there today.

The dating of 10,000 years was done in 1959 using a method that doesn't seem to be recognized as reliable.

The HMS Challenger Tooth Study

The MonsterQuest team attempts to radiocarbon date the megalodon tooth that Dr. Tschernezky identified as being only 10,000 years old. The test is to be conducted by Dr. Tom Higham, the Deputy Director of the Radiocarbon accelerator at Oxford University. Radiocarbon dating can determine the age of organic material that is up to 60,000 years old. Modern bones should have a nitrogen percentage of around 4.5% and if the nitrogen percentage is below 0.7% they are too old and can not be dated using radiocarbon dating.

Higham obtains a sample from the HMS Challenger megalodon shark tooth for analysis. He finds the nitrogen level in the tooth to be only at 0.1% which is not enough to conduct radiocarbon dating and is a strong indication that the tooth is significantly older than the estimate by Tschernezky.

Here is the tooth in question -

If I remember right it was hollow as well.

More megalodon teeth

Great white distribution

The pressures in the trench would smoosh the sharks.

Nibs

[+HerNibs]

I actually tend to think you're wrong on that fact. The scientific consensus is 10,000 years ago.

Also ^ to the poster above it's sheer speculation that the Meg was a coastal shark, and if it was it's very possible that it has adapted to a different food source once the larger prey in the sea began to extinguish. If it is indeed a deep water shark it's prey would almost certainly be sperm whales and massive squid. Sperm whales dive very deep and are always on the hunt. They favor trenches for hunting the squid.

The Colossal Squid could also be a viable food source for these sharks if evolution had allowed them to adapt to colder water like their great white cousins. This is very possible. Another cousin of the great white, the salmon shark lives in the cold waters off Alaska.

The one thing people are not counting on with this theory obviously is evolution and adaptation. Sharks have even adapted to inhabit bodies of fresh water. Take the bull shark of Zambezi for instance. There's also documented cases of Great Whites venturing into bodies of fresh water. Fish, like land animals evolve and adapt to their environment needs.

If something drove the Meg into deep water for necessity of survival, it's quite and very possible that it could survive. Great whites have been spotted at over 1300 feet down. In fact one chewed a camera off a sub down there. There's nothing biological, or physical, that would stop a Meg from existing down there. Particularily if they've adapted to low light levels. Also for the record there was no error in the dating of the tooth. This is a recent discovery. Another was found that was only 44,000 years old. Science is just beginning to examine our oceans. There's things down there yet to be discovered that will blow our minds for years to come. The Coelacanth. The Megamouth, The Frilled shark.... All recently discovered prehistoric species dating back millions of years, and all found perfectly alive. I've heard the theories where some people think that Meg couldn't follow it's prey into colder waters, or the theories, where smaller more agile great whites ate their food source, however, both of those are just theories, and knowing what I know about adaptation, and the ability to rapidly change their habits based on food sources, I believe it's completely feasible that these sharks may not be extinct. All sightings that have been reported, have also oddly all claimed that the Meg is a ghostly white color. (Many documented sightings although yet to be proven). You'll find more info the more you research. Some of it is a bit hard to find. In fact apart from the trench there has also been recent sightings of "Meg" in the Sea of Cortez off Baja.

Can you post links to your statements?

The Coelacanth that has been found today isn't the same that was around millions of years ago.

Although now represented by only two known living species, as a group the coelacanths were once very successful with many genera and species that left an abundant fossil record from the Devonian to the end of the Cretaceous period, at which point they apparently suffered a nearly complete extinction. Before the living specimens were discovered, it was believed by some that the coelacanth was a "missing link" between the fish and the tetrapods. It is often claimed that the coelacanth has remained unchanged for millions of years, but, in fact, the living species and even genus are unknown from the fossil record. The most likely reason for the gap is the taxon having become extinct in shallow waters. Deep-water fossils are only rarely lifted to levels where paleontologists can recover them, making most deep-water taxa disappear from the fossil record.

Nibs

[Welder]

Those are not the teeth most recently found and it was recent, and not in 1872, but from a commercial dredging ship, which as you know dredges the ocean bottom to create fill to ultimately create more dry land. I will work on re-finding all the information for credibility purposes, but it's somewhat tough to find with only a few mentions. I've read everything there is to read on the meg online, studied offline as well, so it's something I will have to dig for.

If scientists have found credible information that would lead to the belief that Meg might exist today they would not share that information public at that point unless it was 100% credible that could not be discredited by skeptics, namely producing a live, or recently deceased specimen, but I can tell you right now there are research teams that ARE looking for meg, so there must be something they've found that would indicate the existence, or they wouldn't be wasting millions trying to prove the theory.

Also the pressures of the trench would not "smoosh" a shark, otherwise, there'd be no sharks down there to which has been proven there are plenty. If that was the case theoretically the 1300 foot deep great white that ate a sub camera (Yes there is footage out there) would have self compacted itself. I'll spend the next few days finding my old, but recent discoveries on the topic. Like I said I'll need time but I can compile them as I find them.

I don't hold my personal opinion to sway either one way or the other, but biologically there is no reason that they could not still exist. Whether they do or not is anyone's guess unless you're on the scientific team searching for them.

[Uncommon Sense]

In fact apart from the trench there has also been recent sightings of "Meg" in the Sea of Cortez off Baja.

Sorry to chime in, but the thread caught my eye and this line specifically stood out. Wasn't this from Monster Hunters and the people were calling it the "Devil Fish". At no point was it proven that it was a Meg and I want to say that the "researchers" found a whale shark in the area. It seems to me that: normal shark attacks + whale shark in the region = devil fish.

Just my two cents.

[+HerNibs]

Those are not the teeth most recently found and it was recent, and not in 1872, but from a commercial dredging ship, which as you know dredges the ocean bottom to create fill to ultimately create more dry land. I will work on re-finding all the information for credibility purposes, but it's somewhat tough to find with only a few mentions. I've read everything there is to read on the meg online, studied offline as well, so it's something I will have to dig for.

If scientists have found credible information that would lead to the belief that Meg might exist today they would not share that information public at that point unless it was 100% credible that could not be discredited by skeptics, namely producing a live, or recently deceased specimen, but I can tell you right now there are research teams that ARE looking for meg, so there must be something they've found that would indicate the existence, or they wouldn't be wasting millions trying to prove the theory.

Also the pressures of the trench would not "smoosh" a shark, otherwise, there'd be no sharks down there to which has been proven there are plenty. If that was the case theoretically the 1300 foot deep great white that ate a sub camera (Yes there is footage out there) would have self compacted itself. I'll spend the next few days finding my old, but recent discoveries on the topic. Like I said I'll need time but I can compile them as I find them.

I don't hold my personal opinion to sway either one way or the other, but biologically there is no reason that they could not still exist. Whether they do or not is anyone's guess unless you're on the scientific team searching for them.

Cool. It will help to know where your supporting evidence is from.

Thanks.

Nibs

[Welder]

Cool. It will help to know where your supporting evidence is from.

Thanks.

Nibs

Yeah when I re-find it all I'll post it but it was scientific data and not tabloid like other reports have been.

The monsterquest episode on the devil fish was based on the eyewitness reports to date, and yes they did find a whale shark, but eyewitnesses to the actual "shark" say it is not a whale shark. That's just all monsterquest could find with their limited filming budget, although it was pretty suspense filled when the morons jumped into the water when they found the whale shark not knowing what it really was. What if it HAD been a meg... Would jumping in the water have been so wise? LOL.

[Blackpool10Crypto]

Would love to see that footage!!

I also have never heard of sleeping sharks before, definitely gonna have a look!