Lockheed Skunk Works Directer...Ben Rich

[booNyzarC]

So you are saying that an actual proven Lockheed employee in a video standing there saying what he saw is on the same level as an unknown person on a message board saying something? That's not logical.

If the guy proves who he is then that changes things. But not whether we know if the actual interview was real or not.

I will say something, if this interview was real then why was it not recorded? Surely every reporter records their interviews?

I was talking about the supposed Ben Rich deathbed confession. This still hasn't been sourced by anyone here, by the way. Where is this confession, verbatim, and how can we know it is true? What video interview with Ben Rich are you referring to? Oh wait, you are talking about that disclosure project video with Don Phillips?

Okay, let's talk about that one too. Maybe I missed it... can you point out where in that video he delivered a first hand account of working on recovered alien craft?

[The Silver Thong]

So you are saying that an actual proven Lockheed employee in a video standing there saying what he saw is on the same level as an unknown person on a message board saying something? That's not logical.

If the guy proves who he is then that changes things. But not whether we know if the actual interview was real or not.

I will say something, if this interview was real then why was it not recorded? Surely every reporter records their interviews?

He's referring to Reverend Clog and I agree with him. Hearsay at best and the name itself Reverend Clog brings suspicion.

[Coffey]

I was talking about the supposed Ben Rich deathbed confession. This still hasn't been sourced by anyone here, by the way. Where is this confession, verbatim, and how can we know it is true? What video interview with Ben Rich are you referring to? Oh wait, you are talking about that disclosure project video with Don Phillips?

Okay, let's talk about that one too. Maybe I missed it... can you point out where in that video he delivered a first hand account of working on recovered alien craft?

I'm talking about them "knowing" not working on it.

[SolarPlexus]

Leave booNyzarC alone... he needs 'proof' and 'documentation' even for the sandwich he's eating and the screen he's starring into tsk tsk tsk ...

[bee]

ROFL...

Everyone here is getting ruffled by the words of the Reverend Clog because they are hearsay. And yet, you hang on every word of certain other hearsay accounts and are willing to swallow everything that seems to point to UFO validation without batting an eye.

That is just hilarious to me. Which hearsay should we believe? Oh, I get it, the hearsay which supports our preconceived notions. Nice.

We know who Ben Rich is.

We know where he worked and his invovement with the highly classified projects in Skunkworks.

No-one in Lockheed Martin...or the government...or his family...appear to have 'come out' to

deny or rubbish what he has said to have said.

Errrrrrrrr Reverand Clog...now who is he?

Do we have anything at all that backs up his annonymous claims....

I'd say....the weight of argument is with the Ben Rich stuff.

But perhaps you think the Rev Clog has equal claims?

PS...the Reverend Clog didn't ruffle me for a second......

I just thought...WTF..?.

[TSS]

I will pass this scurrilous nonsense to Mike, and I'm sure his wife who is an attorney will be glad to judge if the family need to sue.

If she is an attorney I won't expect to see that come to anything then! Sue? LMAO, thanks for that, I needed a laugh.

[booNyzarC]

I'm noticing how nobody seems to be able to provide a verifiable source for this supposed Ben Rich deathbed confession. Nor do I see anyone pointing out where Don Phillips mentioned first hand knowledge of back engineering an ET craft.

You are all welcome to believe whatever you want. The "evidence" is just not convincing when you examine it closely. This is something known as scrutiny. People who blindly accept this stuff without actually confirming it are the same kind of people who keep con artists in business.

By the way - I'm not saying that ET has not been visiting. I'm just saying that there isn't any verifiable evidence of it. Trying to paint me as "scared" of accepting the evidence is just plain silly. I was convinced of ET visitation before coming here. But after seeing the concrete explanations for much of the supposed "evidence" which I had allowed to convince me, I had no choice but to realize that I was giving that "evidence" far more weight than it deserved.

[bee]

People who blindly accept this stuff without actually confirming it are the same kind of people who keep con artists in business.

No-one's blindly accepting anything....

I/we are just trying to put pieces of the puzzle together.

Con artists are everywhere...you have to use your judgement and instincts to spot them.

That's what everyone is doing all the time..assessing the 'evidence'.

Not considering the weight of testimony with the Disclosure Project etc etc....

Is like putting your head in the sand..IMO

[Enigma wrapped in a puzzle]

This topic is bullcarp. I interviewed Ben Rich for the combined forces cadet schools magazine in 1990, (co-incidentally his wife Faye was a cousin of my mothers), and at the same time in Aviation Weekly there was a piece regarding a rumoured hypersonic plane that Lockheed were building.

We talked about all sorts of aviation stuff and if I remember correctly he told me that in terms of technology, the most advanced aircraft he had ever seen was the Airbus A330 then under development, I was a bit taken aback and said, 'But what about the Blackbird and the Stealth fighter, (only publicly seen two months earlier), weren't they far more advanced than anything like that?.'.

His reply will have to be from memory as I don't have the interview notes to hand, but he said that the A-12 program and the F-117 were just engineering - old fashioned engineering at that. He was of the opinion that the internal electronics of an aeroplane were the real 'next big thing' in aviation development and that the 'electric cockpit' was eventually going to revolutionise the way that planes were designed.

I did ask him about the 'black programs' and he looked seriously at me and said, 'Son, if UFO's and suchlike were real then I would be on one right now flying around the solar system and not here old and worn out. I am an engineer not a damn idiot and I get a bit sick of all this silliness, don't those damn idiots realise that the fastest flying thing out there has been cut to pieces by congress, (he was referring to the SR-71), and that if we aren't careful then we will lose the only other really groundbreaking 'plane, Concorde.'.

I went on to spend time at the Rich's place in Ventura after we found out that I was related, and I still say 'Hi' to Mike, (his son), every now and then and I don't think either Mike or K. would be very happy about this stupid rumour mongering regarding their dad. Ben was very ill during the last few months of his life and I for one find it very disrespectful to attribute these idiotic remarks to a man who was a brilliant engineer and a pioneer of aviation.

I will pass this scurrilous nonsense to Mike, and I'm sure his wife who is an attorney will be glad to judge if the family need to sue.

LOL !!!! Just because Ben Rich did not tell you (a boy scout writing for a cadet mag lol) abount the existence of alien craft THAT MUST make this topic BS! I bet you and old Ben where great friends and you knew the family so well and blah blah blah. Sorry pal I hate to break it to you BUT if your buddy Ben knew about any of that stuff back then I am 1000% sure you would be one of the last people to find out! Let us know how that lawsuit comes out

[Coffey]

I'm noticing how nobody seems to be able to provide a verifiable source for this supposed Ben Rich deathbed confession. Nor do I see anyone pointing out where Don Phillips mentioned first hand knowledge of back engineering an ET craft.

You are all welcome to believe whatever you want. The "evidence" is just not convincing when you examine it closely. This is something known as scrutiny. People who blindly accept this stuff without actually confirming it are the same kind of people who keep con artists in business.

By the way - I'm not saying that ET has not been visiting. I'm just saying that there isn't any verifiable evidence of it. Trying to paint me as "scared" of accepting the evidence is just plain silly. I was convinced of ET visitation before coming here. But after seeing the concrete explanations for much of the supposed "evidence" which I had allowed to convince me, I had no choice but to realize that I was giving that "evidence" far more weight than it deserved.

Who are you referring to as believing this deathbed confession? Cause I said multiple times in this thread that there is no evidence that it is real, I also pointed out that the reporter never recorded it which I find strange. Reporters always record interviews, they carry recorders on them. Why would a reporter of not had a recorder with him at such n important interview.

[Coffey]

No-one's blindly accepting anything....

I/we are just trying to put pieces of the puzzle together.

Con artists are everywhere...you have to use your judgement and instincts to spot them.

That's what everyone is doing all the time..assessing the 'evidence'.

Not considering the weight of testimony with the Disclosure Project etc etc....

Is like putting your head in the sand..IMO

Well said.

[booNyzarC]

No-one's blindly accepting anything....

I/we are just trying to put pieces of the puzzle together.

Speaking in general terms, and not directing this toward anyone here - Some are blindly accepting. Some are trying to put a puzzle together. Some are actively producing false evidence. Some are simply insane.

None, and I repeat none, have been able to produce a smoking gun that definitively shows that ETH is real. Even though the idea is within the realm of possibility, it has not been proven. Despite that very simple fact there are hordes of believers whose faith is bolstered by thousands of tiny little pieces of "evidence" which when individually examined simply don't hold up under scrutiny.

Con artists are everywhere...you have to use your judgement and instincts to spot them.

That's what everyone is doing all the time..assessing the 'evidence'.

Agreed. Some are assessing the "evidence" with very little scrutiny though.

Not considering the weight of testimony with the Disclosure Project etc etc....

Is like putting your head in the sand..IMO

Just how weighty is this testimony? How much of it is first hand? For the most part, these testimonies are third hand accounts of things. There are a couple of first hand accounts - but never of anything definitive. And if it seems definitive at first, alternate first hand accounts of the same events are often conflicting.

It is all about keeping the mystery alive. It is all about drawing in the crowd to attend the next conference, the next book signing, buy the next DVD, buy the next book, attend the next UFO spirituality convention.

Sorry, but when you boil the vast majority of this down to the most basic level it is propaganda. And people who are desperate to believe in it latch on and never look back.

[booNyzarC]

Who are you referring to as believing this deathbed confession? Cause I said multiple times in this thread that there is no evidence that it is real, I also pointed out that the reporter never recorded it which I find strange. Reporters always record interviews, they carry recorders on them. Why would a reporter of not had a recorder with him at such n important interview.

I wasn't referring to anyone specific Coffey. I was just making note of the irony between some peoples' willingness to accept hearsay if it supports their belief and ignore hearsay if it doesn't. It's all hearsay and carries the same equal weight, or lack thereof.

[Coffey]

I wasn't referring to anyone specific Coffey. I was just making note of the irony between some peoples' willingness to accept hearsay if it supports their belief and ignore hearsay if it doesn't. It's all hearsay and carries the same equal weight, or lack thereof.

Fair enough then mate.

[bee]

It's all hearsay and carries the same equal weight, or lack thereof.

So...lets get this right...

YOU think that Reverend Clog's claims. (I'm laughing writing this..)

Carry the same weight as the claims made by the article about Ben Rich.

[SolarPlexus]

LOL

[bee]

Sorry, but when you boil the vast majority of this down to the most basic level it is propaganda. And people who are desperate to believe in it latch on and never look back.

Propaganda is a strong word and IMO you are using it inappropriately here.

And using the debunkers favourite 'key' words like...desperate...blindly believing...and other

such provocative expressions is a trick...a game...a bore.

IMHO

:angry2:

[booNyzarC]

So...lets get this right...

YOU think that Reverend Clog's claims. (I'm laughing writing this..)

Carry the same weight as the claims made by the article about Ben Rich.

Unfortunately, you didn't get it right.

Hearsay is hearsay and carries very little weight despite who is speaking it. Here says what hearsay is; "Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience."

You can laugh all you want, it still doesn't add weight to the hearsay. That goes for you too SolarPlexus.

[The Silver Thong]

I wasn't referring to anyone specific Coffey. I was just making note of the irony between some peoples' willingness to accept hearsay if it supports their belief and ignore hearsay if it doesn't. It's all hearsay and carries the same equal weight, or lack thereof.

Not really. Hearsay depends on the source. If A floor layer working there made these claims then the hearsay factor is greater. The source of the claimant needs to be recognized before the claim as to validity.

[SolarPlexus]

I was just making note of the irony between some peoples' willingness to accept hearsay if it supports their belief and ignore hearsay if it doesn't.

Oh? Like you are any different? We humans are meant to believe, the only questions is why...

[booNyzarC]

Propaganda is a strong word and IMO you are using it inappropriately here.

And using the debunkers favourite 'key' words like...desperate...blindly believing...and other

such provocative expressions is a trick...a game...a bore.

IMHO

:angry2:

Propaganda is the perfect word for it. And I agree, it is a bore.

[SolarPlexus]

That goes for you too SolarPlexus.

Yes master

[booNyzarC]

Oh? Like you are any different? We humans are meant to believe, the only questions is why...

How am I the same SolarPlexus?

[bee]

YOU think that Reverend Clog's claims. (I'm laughing writing this..)

I was laughing at actually putting the words down...it's like a tongue twister..

it's hilarious to actually be writing those words...

Unfortunately, you didn't get it right.

Hearsay is hearsay and carries very little weight despite who is speaking it. Here says what hearsay is; "Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience."

So you are throwing your support behind Reverand Clog....(this is so funny...)

But don't want to admit it?

[bee]

Yes master

NOW I really am cracking up.

Perfect comic timing SolarPlexus.