Hamas admits 600-700 militants were killed

[danielost]

So, if 10,000 Chinese show up and buy half of Utah that allows them to establish their own country?

nope, but if 10,000 chinese show up and buy half of utah and we start killing them because they are chinese then yes that allows them to establish their own country. you have got to put the whole thing together not just the parts you want.

[Knight Of Shadows]

so if chinese people showed up with guns and a country

who belonged to another people who were already living it

handed to those chinese and they ruled it as their own

is that legal ? i doubt it

israel could have lived else where .. they " choosed " to live

in palestine .. now they're reaping results

[danielost]

so if chinese people showed up with guns and a country

who belonged to another people who were already living it

handed to those chinese and they ruled it as their own

is that legal ? i doubt it

israel could have lived else where .. they " choosed " to live

in palestine .. now they're reaping results

and there folks is why all jews must die according to the arabs. has nothing to do with who started the war.

[questionmark]

and there folks is why all jews must die according to the arabs. has nothing to do with who started the war.

If we would say that we would deny the right of Israel to exist, in view that the next Progrome after the Nazis was in '46-'47 in Poland there was no choice. What was a bad choice is to have listened to the bible thumpers and take a part of Palestine instead a part of Austria/Germany.

Now put on a different record for a change.

[danielost]

If we would say that we would deny the right of Israel to exist, in view that the next Progrome after the Nazis was in '46-'47 in Poland there was no choice. What was a bad choice is to have listened to the bible thumpers and take a part of Palestine instead a part of Austria/Germany.

Now put on a different record for a change.

again the jews had already been buying land in palistine since the 1800s. that was long before hitlers mass murder.

[Knight Of Shadows]

again .. do not make claims arabs based on your person fantasy

coz it's wrong and got no base of true

we don't want to kill jews ... we got jews living among us

so choose your words carefully and do not make claims on other

people behalf based on your distorted personal view of arabs

fact stands still the reason of the war is israel coming to palesitne

and taking over it by force

[danielost]

again .. do not make claims arabs based on your person fantasy

coz it's wrong and got no base of true

we don't want to kill jews ... we got jews living among us

so choose your words carefully and do not make claims on other

people behalf based on your distorted personal view of arabs

fact stands still the reason of the war is israel coming to palesitne

and taking over it by force

sorry not my claim this time, it is your own words.

[Knight Of Shadows]

your style of discussion gives the impression of a child

didn't you claim in previous page that

" all jews must die according to arab "

or you keep denying your self with each passing post ?

[questionmark]

again the jews had already been buying land in palistine since the 1800s. that was long before hitlers mass murder.

Again, the Jews were less than 10% of Palestine's population in 1933 (British Census).

[questionmark]

again the jews had already been buying land in palistine since the 1800s. that was long before hitlers mass murder.

True, but all fueled by the bible thumping socialist called Theodor Hertzel.

[Erikl]

Your examples are invalid. As Utah is a democratic state in a democratic country, it's land owned by it's people. And yes, if the Chinese government by empty lands from Utah or pay the American citizens of Utah with permission from the US government to buy the lands - then it is Chinese. This has been done by the United States itself - the purchase of Aalaska from the Russians, the purchase of Louisiana from the French etc.

On the other hand, let's not forget that Ottoman law divided land into several categories:

Mulk - Privately owned land in the Western sense. Only a tiny portion of the land was owned in this way. This was the only actual non-government private land in Palestine to which people had inalienable ownership rights.

Miri - Land owned by the government (originally the Ottoman crown) and suitable for agricultural use. Individuals could purchase a deed to cultivate this land and pay a tithe to the government. Ownership could be transferred only with the approval of the state. Miri rights could be transferred to heirs, and the land could be sub-let to tenants. If the owner died without an heir or the land was not cultivated for three years, the land would revert to the state.

Mahlul - Uncultivated Miri lands that would revert to the state, in theory after three years.

Waqf: Land belonging to the Muslim religious endowment, which supposedly could not be alienated or sold. Some categories of this type of land were in fact purchased by Zionists at one time.

Matruka - Land left for public use such as highways, as well as communal lands and pastures. These lands belonged to the state, and not to communities or individuals. It is not clear that this category actually existed in Palestine ( Stein, Land Question, p. 14). It is however, listed in the Hope-Simpson report.

Mawat - (or Mewat) So-called “dead”, unreclaimed land. It constituted about 50 to 60% of the land in Palestine. It belonged to the government. Private individuals could purchase and register this land as their own for its unreclaimed value, but it was just as easy to simply cultivate it.( Stein, Land Question, p. 13). If the land had been cultivated with permission, it would be registered, at least under the Mandate, free of charge. Communities and individuals often expanded their land land holdings "informally" by cultivating or using such land. According to the Hope-Simpson Report Mewat land was probably of considerable extent. It was defined as any land that was more than a mile and a half from a village, and was not owned by anyone. However, no systematic survey was ever done, so it was impossible to determine the precise extent of Mewat land.

A huge amount of territory in nowdays Israel and the disputed territories was swamp land and dunes. Heck - you could see the remains of that in some of Israel's main cities' outskirts (Tel-Aviv, Herzliya etc.).

The truth is, that after the dismantling of the Ottoman empire, most of the land was owned by the British government as a League of Nations' mandate. That is, a land that it's fate should be resolved later on. The Palestinian lie, that Israel was created on a Palestinian state (that never existed) and/or on Palestinian owned lands, is bullocks.

An interesting fact is that the PLO and Fatah were all created prior to the so called Israeli occupation of occupied territories, when it was under Arab occupation, and engaged in hostile activities against Israel, and didn't attempt to establish any Palestinian state in those territories. I wonder why.

[MichaelW]

israel could have lived else where .. they " choosed " to live

in palestine .. now they're reaping results

Here we have the biggest bit of simply ingorant idiocy I have seen so far on my time in this forum. The Jews could never live anywhere else. Judaism originated in the Holy Land, as did Christianity (which derived from Judaism I believe) and the most holiest Jewish sites are in Jerusalem, which under Syrian occupation, Jews were denied worship at places such as the Wailing Wall. Yet, as Jerusalem is under Israeli administration, Muslims are still allowed to pray at the mosque at the Dome of the Rock. But of course, ignorace is bliss.

Seriously Knight, how do you expect to with the opinions of other people by coming up with crap like this? You have no idea how significant Israel and Jerusalem is to Judaism. No idea whatsoever.

I shall repeat myself. The Jews could have never lived anywhere else. Never. This is their ancestral homeland. Get it?

[ships-cat]

Again, the Jews were less than 10% of Palestine's population in 1933 (British Census).

Perhaps.. but then... 58% of the population (purely in 1933) where the British CommonWealth office (cencus division).. plus wives, porters, lackeys, assistants, deputy assistants, Embassy Liason staff, wives of the Embassy Liason Staff, porters to the... etc etc.

Sorry.. just trying to inject a moment of levity into the levant. !

meow purr

[Erikl]

Michael, I'm afraid Knight as already proven in previous threads that "our" version of history isn't what the Baath party teaches in Syria

[questionmark]

Perhaps.. but then... 58% of the population (purely in 1933) where the British CommonWealth office (cencus division).. plus wives, porters, lackeys, assistants, deputy assistants, Embassy Liason staff, wives of the Embassy Liason Staff, porters to the... etc etc.

Sorry.. just trying to inject a moment of levity into the levant. !

meow purr

If they were mostly Muslim you would be correct, because only about 5% were Christians at the time. The most notable thing about that census was that the portion of the Jewish population had increased by 108.4% since the previous census in '22.

[ships-cat]

So they where exercising their "right of return" ?

<hides under sofa>

meow purr

[questionmark]

So they where exercising their "right of return" ?

<hides under sofa>

meow purr

In reality nobody wants to dispute their right of return (though I think it is a pretty stupid idea), the rules were established in '48, in '49 the legal boundaries were fixed. Since then both sides are trying to move the goalposts in their favor. That is what is unacceptable.

[danielost]

In reality nobody wants to dispute their right of return (though I think it is a pretty stupid idea), the rules were established in '48, in '49 the legal boundaries were fixed. Since then both sides are trying to move the goalposts in their favor. That is what is unacceptable.

the jews tried to devide the land the way the un ordered, their thanks was all jews must die. and after the jews helped the arabs kick the brits out their thanks was arabs killing jews the same year.

[Erikl]

The reality was and stil is, that the territory that was named Palestine in 1920 (and never existed before that time), minus Trans-Jordan (modern day Jordan) which was illegaly cut from that mandate as a result of British appeasment to the exiled Hashemites of Arabia, and was givern to the British to manage but was an LN (League of Nations) and later UN territory. The final decsion of the UN after 28 years of mandate, was that the land will be divided into two states, and proposed what it thinks should be the right division. The response of the Jewish community in the mandate was positive. The response of the Arabic community was - NO. Then they declared holy war on the Jews, asked their Arab bretherens to invade and genocide the Jews (only 3 years after the Europeans were done doing so), then when they lost about 50% of the territory initially offered to them by the UN, they didn't do anything with the remaining 50%!

Where was Palestine in the pre-67' West Bank? Where was it is pre-67' Gaza? The truth must be said - the only reason a seperate Palestinian national movement was created, is to be used as a tool to destroy Israel. The Fatah was created in the mid 1950s. The PLO was created in 1964 - 3 years before the 1967 was that resulted in Israel occupying the disputed territories.

And the most troublesome of this all is, that Britain, which now plays as a neutral moderating force in the region (or so it pleases to be seen), was one of the only two states in the world to recognize the occupation of the said "Palestinian" territory by the Jordanians. Where was Europe before 67'? why is it ok that a foreign Arab country occupy the land, but when Jewish Israel is doing so, the British suddenly jump? And why oh why is the so-called "Palestinian" flag is the exact same flag of the pan-Arabist Baath movement flag... There are alot of questions that pro-Palestinian Europeans ignore because it would burst their precious bubble of poor Palestinians oppressed by the Israelis.

[MichaelW]

Figures. Although you forgot that most of Jerusalem was occupied by Syria.

[Knight Of Shadows]

to put it in a better way erikl

is to say that : arabic history " concerning " arabic lands

is different than the version the west trying to impose for certain

reasons

and plz don't take the direction other people made by criticzing syria

by hinting it

this version of history i talk of not only in syria it is through entire

middle east

so yeah your history to me is filled with crap and twisted facts

to archive certain goals " like israel given right to exist in that land "

and " their supposed ancient nation there "

note : before arabs ... which is total nonsense since israelis

and jews are decended from arabs

although .. you will never " ever ever ever " find a jew who would confess

this .. they'll simply deny it

but this is our history am sticking with it

back on topic and apart from explaining to you for like the thousand time

that this history taught in all middle east

michael the only nonsense i see in the post is you trying to justify

israel " taking other people land by force "

and killing it's people to make their number lower and making homeless

outta of the rest

your igroance of facts is ... fantastic .. but it's alright there's

always time to learn the truth it's never too late

later

[danielost]

to put it in a better way erikl

is to say that : arabic history " concerning " arabic lands

is different than the version the west trying to impose for certain

reasons

and plz don't take the direction other people made by criticzing syria

by hinting it

this version of history i talk of not only in syria it is through entire

middle east

so yeah your history to me is filled with crap and twisted facts

to archive certain goals " like israel given right to exist in that land "

and " their supposed ancient nation there "

note : before arabs ... which is total nonsense since israelis

and jews are decended from arabs

although .. you will never " ever ever ever " find a jew who would confess

this .. they'll simply deny it

but this is our history am sticking with it

back on topic and apart from explaining to you for like the thousand time

that this history taught in all middle east

michael the only nonsense i see in the post is you trying to justify

israel " taking other people land by force "

and killing it's people to make their number lower and making homeless

outta of the rest

your igroance of facts is ... fantastic .. but it's alright there's

always time to learn the truth it's never too late

later

then you should give the land back to those you took it from, like the jews.

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?ParagraphID=ebw

One of the most dramatic and sudden movements of any people in history is the expansion, by conquest, of the Arabs in the 7th century (only the example of the Mongols in the 13th century can match it). The desert tribesmen of Arabia form the bulk of the Muslim armies. Their natural ferocity and love of warfare, together with the sense of moral rectitude provided by their new religion, form an irresistible combination.

Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?ParagraphID=ebw#ixzz15JTtwNq6

[William Rea]

Third opportunity for the naysayers to give an answer if they have one...

Compare and contrast the following...

1. The Haaretz Headline and lead paragraph

2. Page 90 of Goldstone

3. Precisely what Fathi Hamad said.

If these people cannot even be bothered to do that then they are just propogandists.

[MichaelW]

michael the only nonsense i see in the post is you trying to justify

israel " taking other people land by force "

and killing it's people to make their number lower and making homeless

outta of the rest

your igroance of facts is ... fantastic .. but it's alright there's

always time to learn the truth it's never too late

I already know the truth. Don't kid yourself, Knight. No one believes you. You try to justify terrorism, which is pointless. You try to justify the extermination of an entire race of people, which is also pointless. To be honest, you have no argument whatsoever. Don't even bother trying to argue anymore.

Just stop.

[danielost]

Third opportunity for the naysayers to give an answer if they have one...

Compare and contrast the following...

1. The Haaretz Headline and lead paragraph

2. Page 90 of Goldstone

3. Precisely what Fathi Hamad said.

If these people cannot even be bothered to do that then they are just propogandists.

your deamnd is being ignored.