barbco196 Posted March 18, 2016 #101 Share Posted March 18, 2016 No computer YET has a soul but it is not far away The attributes which give a human being a soul WILL be reproduced in Ai's inthe near future, There is some concern among scientists about what it will mean when computers think JUST LIKE humans ie get angry, jealous, love, hate, get greedy or altruistic. When a computer understands consequence, knows the difference between doing harm and doing good and can choose which action to take based on reasoning about consequence to self and others while rationalising its choices etc., then it will have a soul and a conscience. it will be JUST like a human and will need to be placed under the same laws as we place adult humans under..We could then reasonably expect it to obey laws, and to take legal consequences for breaking them, just as we expect of an adult human. . God will never let this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted March 18, 2016 #102 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I have your lost soul ... I am going to keep it ... in this One should hope for such luxurious accommodations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 18, 2016 #103 Share Posted March 18, 2016 God will never let this happen. God's kind of powerless to do anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 18, 2016 #104 Share Posted March 18, 2016 No computer YET has a soul but it is not far away The attributes which give a human being a soul WILL be reproduced in Ai's inthe near future, There is some concern among scientists about what it will mean when computers think JUST LIKE humans ie get angry, jealous, love, hate, get greedy or altruistic. When a computer understands consequence, knows the difference between doing harm and doing good and can choose which action to take based on reasoning about consequence to self and others while rationalising its choices etc., then it will have a soul and a conscience. it will be JUST like a human and will need to be placed under the same laws as we place adult humans under..We could then reasonably expect it to obey laws, and to take legal consequences for breaking them, just as we expect of an adult human. . So, in other words, no you cant prove it scientifically, your so called proof lies in the future and is affirmed by your insistence that it will happen ? Laughable ! Ha ha ha ha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 18, 2016 #105 Share Posted March 18, 2016 One should hope for such luxurious accommodations. My dear ... your prison I mean, your boudoir awaits you ; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 18, 2016 #106 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hey ! There is a lamp inside the lamp ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 18, 2016 #107 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) When a computer understands consequence, knows the difference between doing harm and doing good and can choose which action to take based on reasoning about consequence to self and others while rationalising its choices etc., then it will have a soul and a conscience. it will be JUST like a human . In those circumstances,if a computer does wrong knowingly then it must be committing a sin,will it go to Hell at it's demise That might be sound reasoning if I believed in heaven or hell, but I would say that a computer with a conscience will, like a human, create its own inner heaven or hell. Imo that is the only real form of heaven or hell. More to the point it will be able to be held morally and legally responsible for its choices and its actions, as only adult human beings presently can be. Edited March 18, 2016 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 18, 2016 #108 Share Posted March 18, 2016 God will never let this happen. Why? He lets us create baby humans. He gave us the ability to create. I understand the theological reasoning, but i think it is false. God's final purpose for us is to become just like him, and we have the abilty within us to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 18, 2016 #109 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) So, in other words, no you cant prove it scientifically, your so called proof lies in the future and is affirmed by your insistence that it will happen ? Laughable ! Ha ha ha ha Science. Read the current scientific literature to see how close this really is. You laugh at the idea of god preventing this, yet you laugh at the idea of human science creating it? About 20 years is the expert opinion, but i think that's conservative. Edited March 18, 2016 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted March 18, 2016 #110 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Why? He lets us create baby humans. He gave us the ability to create. I understand the theological reasoning, but i think it is false. God's final purpose for us is to become just like him, and we have the abilty within us to do so. Then so much for free will and individuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podo Posted March 18, 2016 #111 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Then so much for free will and individuality. The Abrahamic deity doesn't want free will, individuality, or personal expression. It is like when your girlfriend asks you "do I look fat in this dress?" She is pretending to give you free will, but she will punish you greatly for not answering in the way that she wants. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted March 18, 2016 #112 Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOG Posted March 18, 2016 #113 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hey ! There is a lamp inside the lamp ! And inside THAT lamp is the house that contains the first lamp! They must be Doug Hofstadter's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 19, 2016 #114 Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) Science. Read the current scientific literature to see how close this really is. You laugh at the idea of god preventing this, yet you laugh at the idea of human science creating it? About 20 years is the expert opinion, but i think that's conservative. I dont take cheques Walker . and again you tried to segway of the BS I busted you on ...... your scientific demonstration, remember ? Of course you cant .... because you loose the thread of to and fro Q and A after 2 posts . Edited March 19, 2016 by back to earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 19, 2016 #115 Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) And inside THAT lamp is the house that contains the first lamp! They must be Doug Hofstadter's... He dude ... my mind just got blown ..... dont send me into a toroidal vortex as well ! Edited March 19, 2016 by back to earth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 20, 2016 #116 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Then so much for free will and individuality. God has free will and individuality So do all self aware beings You cant become self aware without free will, which allows for learning from different responses to different problems creating different outcomes What we MAKE of that freedom is entirely down to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 20, 2016 #117 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The Abrahamic deity doesn't want free will, individuality, or personal expression. It is like when your girlfriend asks you "do I look fat in this dress?" She is pretending to give you free will, but she will punish you greatly for not answering in the way that she wants. Actually it does want free will but it also wants us to think rationally, intelligently, and to act with consideration and awareness of consequence This doesn't prevent free will, but causes us to use our free will to live peacefully constructively and creatively. We still have the abilty to be harmful and destructive but chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted March 20, 2016 #118 Share Posted March 20, 2016 you cannot have your soul stolen. satan nor god has that power. someone is trying to scare you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted March 20, 2016 #119 Share Posted March 20, 2016 God has free will and individuality So do all self aware beings You cant become self aware without free will, which allows for learning from different responses to different problems creating different outcomes What we MAKE of that freedom is entirely down to us. and since we started with free will in the pre life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 21, 2016 #120 Share Posted March 21, 2016 and since we started with free will in the pre life. I don't know about that daniel. if we had a learned conscious self awareness in that pre life then yes we would inevitably have also evolved free will . What do you see as the "pre-life" and do you see our soul as migrating form pre-life to present life, to some later/future life.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted March 21, 2016 #121 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I don't know about that daniel. if we had a learned conscious self awareness in that pre life then yes we would inevitably have also evolved free will . What do you see as the "pre-life" and do you see our soul as migrating form pre-life to present life, to some later/future life.? if we didn't have free-will how could satan and a third of heaven have rebelled against god. by the that was the main fight whether or not we should have free- will and who got credit for getting us home. Edited March 21, 2016 by danielost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 21, 2016 #122 Share Posted March 21, 2016 if we didn't have free-will how could satan and a third of heaven have rebelled against god. by the that was the main fight whether or not we should have free- will and who got credit for getting us home. Ok, Theologically I agree.Satan and the angels had free will in the biblical narrative. ( basically also because any self awre being must have free will in order to develop self awreness. ) Are you saying that we were those angels in some pre- present existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted March 21, 2016 #123 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Ok, Theologically I agree.Satan and the angels had free will in the biblical narrative. ( basically also because any self awre being must have free will in order to develop self awreness. ) Are you saying that we were those angels in some pre- present existence? yes. and at some point, so were the souls of the animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 22, 2016 #124 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) yes. and at some point, so were the souls of the animals. That is interesting Daniel. i spent a couple of years in regular study with mormons/latter day saints, when i was in my twenties, and studying many religious beliefs. I didn't realise (or had forgotten) that this was one of their beliefs, or is it your own individual expression of belief? I knew they believed in the pre mortal existence of human souls, and that christ was the first human expression of such a soul, but not that these were connected to angelic beings. Edited March 22, 2016 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiiet Posted May 22, 2019 #125 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Soul is the imaterial part of the being, that exists before during and after our bodily experience in life. I just came from a relationship that stole away my soul. But it's temporary. Together with the relationship, I made terrible life choices that also contributed to the increase of this feeling of emptiness. I'm positive that nothing can hold itself eternal and no matter how much you ****ed up your material and immaterial existence, there is always a choice to be made and everything can be recovered. Believing in that is already a victory for me, it's called hope and I finally have it again Cheers, hope to have contributed with the discussion 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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