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The_Spirit_of_Truth

Soul stealing

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Alchopwn

There are actually a LOT of different ways to steal someone's "soul".  Of course a lot depends on now you personally define your soul.  For most people, they have a word, and some sort of nebulous notion of what that soul might actually be.  Most people seem to think their soul is a ghost that is the "essence" of themselves, in much the same way that vanilla essence is the flavor essence extracted  from vanilla beans. To think of your soul as your "flavor" isn't such a bad analogy, but all analogies are wrong, and can only point at a meaning, not be that meaning.

Love, as most people understand it, is a form of soul stealing, for example.  So be careful who you love.

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XenoFish

Soul-Psyche-Consciousness. The evolution of a thought. 

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'Walt' E. Kurtz

Stealing someones music is never ok !! This is Soul. 

 

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xiiiet
On 22/05/2019 at 6:27 AM, Alchopwn said:

There are actually a LOT of different ways to steal someone's "soul".

Could you list ? How would you recover from it if you were me?

On 22/05/2019 at 6:27 AM, Alchopwn said:

Love, as most people understand it, is a form of soul stealing, for example.  So be careful who you love.

I mean, even though I had a terrible experience with love, I do not argue against it. I would say fall in love but don't underestimate the power it can have on your brain.

In a sense, your body works on a very limited basis. Do not combo mentalillness with bad relationships because you might break. That is what happened to me. Took me some months of soul searching and work to recover from it. You have to be patient young Padawan, but you can get there and build yourself again and better.

The saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" applies.

Also soul is a construct, not a constant. So be aware of that as you go through the highway of life. Peace

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Alchopwn
2 minutes ago, xiiiet said:

Could you list ? How would you recover from it if you were me?

The answer is primarily to meditate on the feeling of emptiness.  Eventually you will become aware of exactly what form of soul stealing you are experiencing.  Let your consciousness go into the emptiness you feel, but remain objective, observing the emptiness to see where the barrier is, or where the draining point is.  You will need to be very focused and observant.  This will help you determine if something has happened to your consciousness or merely your energy.  It is a puzzle of awareness that you can unpick.

10 minutes ago, xiiiet said:

I mean, even though I had a terrible experience with love, I do not argue against it.

Spoken like a true addict ;)

11 minutes ago, xiiiet said:

I would say fall in love but don't underestimate the power it can have on your brain.

Sure, I was just saying that falling in love is a form of soul stealing, and that you should beware who you love.  Falling in love with an ******* is always a disaster, but some people seem to seek them out with masochistic precision, amirite?

14 minutes ago, xiiiet said:

In a sense, your body works on a very limited basis. Do not combo mental illness with bad relationships because you might break. That is what happened to me. Took me some months of soul searching and work to recover from it. You have to be patient young Padawan, but you can get there and build yourself again and better.

LOL, My own problem is that I generally seem to become attracted to crazy females, so for me mental illness and bad relationships IS sort of a combo.  I have about 75% of a psych textbook worth of crazy ex-girlfriends.  I know what my pattern is tho, I look at a woman who "isn't like other women" and that gets me interested and attracted, but the reason she isn't like other women is because she is properly mentally ill and either she hasn't told me about her diagnosis, or she has yet to be diagnosed.  Now I know my pattern I am debugging myself.  Presently I have a few friends with benefits situations where the other parties are well aware, and that is pretty optimal for everyone concerned.

20 minutes ago, xiiiet said:

The saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" applies.

I have a saying for you... "Don't take relationship advice from philosophers who died of syphilis." :lol:

22 minutes ago, xiiiet said:

Also soul is a construct, not a constant. So be aware of that as you go through the highway of life. Peace

Yeah, I know and agree.  It is part of why a stolen soul isn't the end of the line.

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xiiiet
5 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

The answer is primarily to meditate on the feeling of emptiness.  Eventually you will become aware of exactly what form of soul stealing you are experiencing.  Let your consciousness go into the emptiness you feel, but remain objective, observing the emptiness to see where the barrier is, or where the draining point is.  You will need to be very focused and observant.  This will help you determine if something has happened to your consciousness or merely your energy.  It is a puzzle of awareness that you can unpick.

Spoken like a true addict ;)

Sure, I was just saying that falling in love is a form of soul stealing, and that you should beware who you love.  Falling in love with an ******* is always a disaster, but some people seem to seek them out with masochistic precision, amirite?

LOL, My own problem is that I generally seem to become attracted to crazy females, so for me mental illness and bad relationships IS sort of a combo.  I have about 75% of a psych textbook worth of crazy ex-girlfriends.  I know what my pattern is tho, I look at a woman who "isn't like other women" and that gets me interested and attracted, but the reason she isn't like other women is because she is properly mentally ill and either she hasn't told me about her diagnosis, or she has yet to be diagnosed.  Now I know my pattern I am debugging myself.  Presently I have a few friends with benefits situations where the other parties are well aware, and that is pretty optimal for everyone concerned.

I have a saying for you... "Don't take relationship advice from philosophers who died of syphilis." :lol:

Yeah, I know and agree.  It is part of why a stolen soul isn't the end of the line.

O man I guess this **** is just life and yes yes yes brother. Not the end of the line indeed

 Rock bottom

Rock on

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Scudbuster

I'm not too worried about it.  

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LostSouls7
On 11/20/2010 at 10:22 AM, The_Spirit_of_Truth said:

I do know that human souls can be stolen. For a start, there is a page about soul stealing or more correctly said about how one should be dying safely to prevent his or her soul from being stolen. First of all, I would like to ask you if you believe or not, that in health service there work Devil's servants in order to have access to dying people to be allowed to steal their souls?

Yes devils servants are everywhere! and they will steal your soul!

I myself have stolen a few souls in my career as a wizard

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VastLand
On 11/20/2010 at 11:22 AM, The_Spirit_of_Truth said:

I do know that human souls can be stolen. For a start, there is a page about soul stealing or more correctly said about how one should be dying safely to prevent his or her soul from being stolen. First of all, I would like to ask you if you believe or not, that in health service there work Devil's servants in order to have access to dying people to be allowed to steal their souls?

The workers of Iniquity, the servants of fear, work in many professions, and it is not always in health services. They utilize their many different positions for strategic purpose, as they are all in communion. The thing with "Soul stealing" though, is a matter of illusions, fears, and tricks.

For a Healer, who is learned in the Americas, they understand that Fear, is the way by which the shadows steal power. Sometimes, Warring "Shape changers", will attempt to steal power from other people of power. However, the healer, knows, that Fear is an Illusion, we are to be fearless. Many people, as it is known, are in the dark, they are ignorant about themselves, the world around them, and they are afraid of what they do not know. It is through this fear, that they are vulnerable to attacks.

If a Spirit is fearless, and knows the truth, they can not be stolen from.

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Desertrat56
On 5/22/2019 at 3:27 AM, Alchopwn said:

There are actually a LOT of different ways to steal someone's "soul".  Of course a lot depends on now you personally define your soul.  For most people, they have a word, and some sort of nebulous notion of what that soul might actually be.  Most people seem to think their soul is a ghost that is the "essence" of themselves, in much the same way that vanilla essence is the flavor essence extracted  from vanilla beans. To think of your soul as your "flavor" isn't such a bad analogy, but all analogies are wrong, and can only point at a meaning, not be that meaning.

Love, as most people understand it, is a form of soul stealing, for example.  So be careful who you love.

Maybe we need a definition of the word 'soul'.  When I have more time I will go back through and see if anyone defined it as I don't think there is anyway to steal a soul.  My definition of soul is the part of us that continues after our human body has died.  Any who don't believe in that let me know what you define as soul. 

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Jodie.Lynne
7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe we need a definition of the word 'soul'.  When I have more time I will go back through and see if anyone defined it as I don't think there is anyway to steal a soul.  My definition of soul is the part of us that continues after our human body has died.  Any who don't believe in that let me know what you define as soul. 

"...the part of us that continues after our human body has died"

There is so much to unpack in this statement.

First, you haven't defined what a soul is, you've just given it an attribute "That which continues" It would be like defining "RED" as "not GREEN".

And secondly, apart from belief, is there proof that a soul exists?

 

You have two tasks ahead of you: defining what a soul is, and proving that it in fact exists.

For reference, I could define a 'dragon' as : a winged reptile that covets gold, and virgins; is fond of barbecuing knights, and may breathe fire, acid, or ice, depending on habitation and ancestry.

 

While I am able to define the term, I cannot prove (or disprove) that dragons exist.

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ThereWeAreThen
12 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

"...the part of us that continues after our human body has died"

There is so much to unpack in this statement.

First, you haven't defined what a soul is, you've just given it an attribute "That which continues" It would be like defining "RED" as "not GREEN".

And secondly, apart from belief, is there proof that a soul exists?

 

You have two tasks ahead of you: defining what a soul is, and proving that it in fact exists.

For reference, I could define a 'dragon' as : a winged reptile that covets gold, and virgins; is fond of barbecuing knights, and may breathe fire, acid, or ice, depending on habitation and ancestry.

 

While I am able to define the term, I cannot prove (or disprove) that dragons exist.

But the Welsh dragon really did kill the English dragon right?? RIGHT??

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Desertrat56
8 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

"...the part of us that continues after our human body has died"

There is so much to unpack in this statement.

First, you haven't defined what a soul is, you've just given it an attribute "That which continues" It would be like defining "RED" as "not GREEN".

And secondly, apart from belief, is there proof that a soul exists?

 

You have two tasks ahead of you: defining what a soul is, and proving that it in fact exists.

For reference, I could define a 'dragon' as : a winged reptile that covets gold, and virgins; is fond of barbecuing knights, and may breathe fire, acid, or ice, depending on habitation and ancestry.

 

While I am able to define the term, I cannot prove (or disprove) that dragons exist.

Right.  My definition is too nebulous but as I see it, if you don't believe in any part of our human experience continuing after the body is dead then there is no soul.  And in that case you would not care about a discussion of the possibility of a soul being stolen, would you?

I have no proof and no one else does that I have seen that a soul is even a real thing.  But I am wondering why some who believe it is real think it can be stolen.  My experiences that are mine and not proof for anyone else leads me to believe we do continue after death, that we existed before we came into this physical plane and that we continue to exist when we leave it.  It is not something I will even try to convince any one of as it is up to each individual to believe or not believe it.  There are things I know and there are things I believe, mainly because I don't understand so I have to fill in the blanks.  Some like to ignore the blanks of understanding.  The way I fill in the blanks for myself change as I change.

 

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Jodie.Lynne
2 minutes ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

But the Welsh dragon really did kill the English dragon right?? RIGHT??

SHHHHHHHHH!

The English are still a bit touchy about that!

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Jodie.Lynne
15 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

But I am wondering why some who believe it is real think it can be stolen. 

Because anything that one possesses, can be taken by another, yes? 

But the sad thing is that once you believe in something unproven (like a soul), then you must needs believe in other things.

- If one believes in the Judeo-Christian god, then one must accept the reality of Satan (at least for Christians). 

- If one believes that there are two celestial entitles fighting for possession of one's "soul", then one must accept that there are other agencies that could endanger one's 'soul' as well. Witches, demons, other harmful supernatural entities, Harry Potter books, and D & D games.

- You must also accept that there are agencies trying to protect your "soul" as well. Angels, "light workers", guardian spirits, "Faith" healers, and preachers.

 

And when one accepts one fantastical claim, based on a 'feeling', then one really cannot honestly disregard any other fantastical claim.  Why is it that some many believers (of their own personal god) are so eager to claim other god concepts as 'false'?

 

Ask 100 believers that a soul exists to define the term, and you will come up with 100 different answers.

 

Quote

...leads me to believe we do continue after death, that we existed before we came into this physical plane and that we continue to exist when we leave it. 

Question: If we exited before we became flesh-and-blood humans, and if we will return to the same state we had before birth, then what is the point of incarnating at all?

I'm not asking for a theological discourse, but your own personal opinion on this, @Desertrat56 .

Edited by Jodie.Lynne

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Because anything that one possesses, can be taken by another, yes? 

But the sad thing is that once you believe in something unproven (like a soul), then you must needs believe in other things.

- If one believes in the Judeo-Christian god, then one must accept the reality of Satan (at least for Christians). 

- If one believes that there are two celestial entitles fighting for possession of one's "soul", then one must accept that there are other agencies that could endanger one's 'soul' as well. Witches, demons, other harmful supernatural entities, Harry Potter books, and D & D games.

- You must also accept that there are agencies trying to protect your "soul" as well. Angels, "light workers", guardian spirits, "Faith" healers, and preachers.

 

And when one accepts one fantastical claim, based on a 'feeling', then one really cannot honestly disregard any other fantastical claim.  Why is it that some many believers (of their own personal god) are so eager to claim other god concepts as 'false'?

 

Ask 100 believers that a soul exists to define the term, and you will come up with 100 different answers.

Exactly, and my definition is that it is immutable, not something that can be stolen, but our core being, the part of us that never changes, not a possession but an essence.  Is that a more clear definition for you?

I

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Jodie.Lynne
5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Is that a more clear definition for you?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but no.

How is our "soul" different from our "sense of self"?

Not to get into a debate on semantics, or definitions, but how is "soul" different from "self-awareness", "consciousness", "identity', "ego"?

What you knew as a child has changed as you grew, yes? Who you were as a child has (hopefully!) also changed as you matured, yeah?

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I'm not trying to be difficult, but no.

How is our "soul" different from our "sense of self"?

Not to get into a debate on semantics, or definitions, but how is "soul" different from "self-awareness", "consciousness", "identity', "ego"?

What you knew as a child has changed as you grew, yes? Who you were as a child has (hopefully!) also changed as you matured, yeah?

The soul has nothing to do with how we identify as self in a human body, that identification changes over our lifetime but it is tied to the physical reality that we experience.  LIke I said it is an immutable essence, mostly intangible and again if you have no belief in existence outside of this human life then there is no explanation or definition that will satisfy you.

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Jodie.Lynne
13 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

The soul has nothing to do with how we identify as self in a human body, that identification changes over our lifetime but it is tied to the physical reality that we experience.  LIke I said it is an immutable essence, mostly intangible and again if you have no belief in existence outside of this human life then there is no explanation or definition that will satisfy you.

Again, not trying to be difficult, or to demean your beliefs, but this statement exemplifies what I was saying.

"immutable essence" "mostly intangible", you cannot define what it is you claim is the 'soul'.

What does the soul do for us? How does it help us survive? Where is it located? What does it look like?

Would a clone of a human have a soul? 

In the womb, sometimes twins are formed, but one twin will "absorb" the other. Does that surviving twin have two souls?

There are some brain injuries that can create an entirely different and separate personality from the original. It has to do with the separation of the two hemispheres of the brain. I cannot recall ATM, what the term is called.

BUT, the injury creates two separate personas in one human body. Sometimes, one is hyper religious and the other not. Does that individual have half a soul? two souls? One soul?

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Desertrat56
3 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Again, not trying to be difficult, or to demean your beliefs, but this statement exemplifies what I was saying.

"immutable essence" "mostly intangible", you cannot define what it is you claim is the 'soul'.

What does the soul do for us? How does it help us survive? Where is it located? What does it look like?

Would a clone of a human have a soul? 

In the womb, sometimes twins are formed, but one twin will "absorb" the other. Does that surviving twin have two souls?

There are some brain injuries that can create an entirely different and separate personality from the original. It has to do with the separation of the two hemispheres of the brain. I cannot recall ATM, what the term is called.

BUT, the injury creates two separate personas in one human body. Sometimes, one is hyper religious and the other not. Does that individual have half a soul? two souls? One soul?

There is no 'look' to a soul, it is not physical.  It does not help us survive, it is what survives.  Your questions are all in relation to the physical awareness that cannot be translated to the non-physical.    I have no idea whether a clone would have a soul or not.  I suspect it could and I once thought a clone that survived more than a few hours  would have to have a soul but that was a long time ago and I have changed my mind about what I know and what I believe.

As for the twins, if one survives and one doesn't what would be the point of having two souls.  The soul is not physical.

As for the brain injury I think you are talking about personality.  I am not sure to what degree a soul influences personality but again it would make no sense to me that two souls would inhabit one body.  Probably 10 different people would answer your questions 10 different ways.

You make a good point.  My definition of soul is weak in relation to physical "reality" versus non-physical "reality".  There is no language I know that could convey my belief to you as we think differently and this is a thinking, not a knowing. 

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Jodie.Lynne
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

You make a good point.  My definition of soul is weak in relation to physical "reality" versus non-physical "reality".  There is no language I know that could convey my belief to you as we think differently and this is a thinking, not a knowing. 

Thank you for the response. Again, not arguing your beliefs, just trying to make you examine them.

 

As an aside, I knew a man who "just knew" that all dark skinned people were "no good". He couldn't prove it, had no real interaction with ANY people of colour, but he 'just knew'.

Back in the dark ages, we all "just knew" that the "commies" were spending every waking hour trying to destroy us. Most Americans had never even seen a real communist, but we didn't need to. We 'just knew'.

 

Be cautious of what you "just know", because it just might not be so. :)

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Alchopwn
11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe we need a definition of the word 'soul'.  When I have more time I will go back through and see if anyone defined it as I don't think there is anyway to steal a soul.  My definition of soul is the part of us that continues after our human body has died.  Any who don't believe in that let me know what you define as soul. 

How do you separate spirit from soul?  According to Christian inner doctrine, soul is your personal portion of the holy spirit, and what is fed by the host you consume at mass.  When you die, your soul returns to God, as it was never truly apart from God, but was God within.  The central tenet of Christianity is about developing one's relationship with one's holy spirit, removing worldly impediments from your life so that you can receive clear instructions from God and do his will.  That is why devils want souls.  Every portion of the Holy spirit that is given to Satan empowers him, and why to sin against the holy spirit is unforgivable.  In fact, the word soul comes from the same idea as the word spirit, tho both come from different languages.  Soul derives from Germanic language, while spirit comes from Latin, but both mean "breath", for it is breath that leaves the body upon death, and courses thru us while we live, and on cold days when we breathe mist, it can be seen, tho it is normally invisible.

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Desertrat56
4 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

How do you separate spirit from soul?  According to Christian inner doctrine, soul is your personal portion of the holy spirit, and what is fed by the host you consume at mass.  When you die, your soul returns to God, as it was never truly apart from God, but was God within.  The central tenet of Christianity is about developing one's relationship with one's holy spirit, removing worldly impediments from your life so that you can receive clear instructions from God and do his will.  That is why devils want souls.  Every portion of the Holy spirit that is given to Satan empowers him, and why to sin against the holy spirit is unforgivable.  In fact, the word soul comes from the same idea as the word spirit, tho both come from different languages.  Soul derives from Germanic language, while spirit comes from Latin, but both mean "breath", for it is breath that leaves the body upon death, and courses thru us while we live, and on cold days when we breathe mist, it can be seen, tho it is normally invisible.

So, I think in another thread I had asked someone to explain the difference between spirit and soul and I don't remember getting an answer.  I have always thought they could be different except that many people consider them the same.  To me your definition is very close to what I tried to convey to JLN.  The only difference is that I do not ascribe to the christian god being real, though your use in this definition could mean what I consider to be source.  As for spirit and soul being used as different I think spirit is often meant to describe the part that some person may leave behind on earth when they leave their body which is not the soul.  Something that may or may not actually be possible.  I am on the fence with that one.  It is one of the reasons I ask for definitions, because even though dictionaries exist, we don't all agree on the meaning of a lot of words.  And now days dictionaries are conflicting too.

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Alchopwn
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

So, I think in another thread I had asked someone to explain the difference between spirit and soul and I don't remember getting an answer.  I have always thought they could be different except that many people consider them the same.  To me your definition is very close to what I tried to convey to JLN.  The only difference is that I do not ascribe to the christian god being real, though your use in this definition could mean what I consider to be source.  As for spirit and soul being used as different I think spirit is often meant to describe the part that some person may leave behind on earth when they leave their body which is not the soul.  Something that may or may not actually be possible.  I am on the fence with that one.  It is one of the reasons I ask for definitions, because even though dictionaries exist, we don't all agree on the meaning of a lot of words.  And now days dictionaries are conflicting too.

I don't ascribe the Christian God to be real either, and I am sorry if I misled you in that respect.  I am however quite interested in all aspects of religion, and come at it from a primarily anthropological angle, tho I am versed in theology too.  I suspect I have studied the world's religions too closely to really believe any of them, but some are better than others in that regard

You make the interesting distinction of the spirit being left "on Earth" as a sort of ghost.  This is an interesting perspective, and one that owes its existence to the Egyptian notion of the 9 separate parts of the Body and Soul.  The Ka is the spirit left on earth to cause mischief there.  I believe the Christian church teachings are conflicted on the issue of whether a ghost is the soul kept from rest or merely the animating spirit of the body (in the sense Descartes viewed it), at large in the world.  Then of course we have the plethora of folkloric entities such as angels (yes angels), devils, demons, lucifuges, faeries, totems, genii, etc. who can also be substituted for your average poult or spook.

it is good that you worry about definitions.  I like that.  I am generally happy to adopt another person's idea of a definition, but if I see a problem I try to pose an example that illustrates why the definition offered fails.  

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'Walt' E. Kurtz

Yep im a soul man

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