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Echo flights of fantasy - part one

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James Carlson: On September 27, 2010, in an attempt to build support for the disclosure of UFO-related documents by the U.S. Department of Defense, authors Robert Hastings and Robert Salas hosted a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, DC. Only confirmed members of the press and Congressional staff were invited to attend. With them were seven veterans of the U.S. military who have publically affirmed the interference by UFOs with nuclear facilities in the United States and Europe. According to Hastings and Salas, this proves that the claim of the United States Air Force since 1969 that UFO activity has never had an effect on the national security of the U.S. is a lie. Out of all of the witnesses present, three had come forward to discuss their involvement with a well-known case that allegedly occurred at Malmstrom AFB, Montana in the spring of 1967: the Echo Flight incident of March 16, and an associated event at Oscar Flight on March 24-25. Since first being exposed to public scrutiny by Robert Salas in 1995, this alleged confrontation between UFO and nuclear missile silos has come to be considered one of ten UFO incidents around the world that is best supported by the most reliable evidence. Questions raised regarding the credibility of the witnesses insist, however, that this notoriety is hardly deserved.

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thefinalfrontier

When are you two going to stop the child crap and move forwards??

I dont even need to read this as I know whats going to be said already,

Edited by thefinalfrontier

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James Carlson

When are you two going to stop the child crap and move forwards??

I dont even need to read this as I know whats going to be said already,

Wow, that must mean you're psychic. Good for you! I hope you have fun with that. At the same time, you should use your gifts for the benefit of your family and community. Most of the psychics I've come across in the past have been overly concerned with making money, but it wouldn't be fair of me to assume that's what you intend to do with your gifts. Actually, it would be unfair of me to conclude that your only concerns are financial ones, and since I'm definitely not psychic, who the Hell am I to give social advice of that sort to anyone else? After all, it's not as if trying to benefit from the gifts granted to you by fate is a bad thing. I certainly wouldn't agree with that -- that would be a bit fascist, wouldn't it? Or is that more indicative of a communist vice? Whatever -- it's still not something I would ever insist upon. For all I know, a profiteering personality may be necessary for psychic skills to emerge and develop. It's not exactly a trait we've extensively mapped in the human genome, is it? Still, if I were to give some advice, it would mainly be not to make things worse, and sometimes that takes a delicate touch. Take this whole thing with Hastings and Salas, for instance. If I can make things worse for them, I certainly intend to do so, because I don't like it when people make money by telling lies about my family. It makes me angry when things like that happen, and I don't like being angry -- I'm usually a very easy-going guy. I come from a family that believes there is honor in military service to your nation, and we are very proud of that service. We don't lie about it, and we don't try to hide it, so when we come across individuals who do lie about it, it tends to anger us a bit. And when we come across individuals who not only lie about it, but disparage that service, insult our character, and do so in order to make a buck, we tend to really get p***ed off -- at least I do. But I'm a lot more sensitive than my brothers are, and since I've been fairly successful so far, they see no reason to intrude. Of course, I couldn't possibly have known that they would react that way. Who could? The point is, until you've been the subject of such a rude and pointless public insult motivated primarily by financial concerns, you really can't say how you would react. It would be comparable to my giving advice to a psychic regarding how he or she should use the gifts that God has granted them. Unless you understand it, you're really not qualified to offer up advice, and your opinion isn't really worth considering. So I won't. As for knowing what it is that I have to discuss in this article, you may be psychic, but most of us are not, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people want to understand more fully where the UFO rumors in 1967 came from, and why they have nothing to do with any actual, historic events that took place at Echo Flight or Oscar Flight or any other flight of nuclear missiles at Malmstrom AFB in March 1967. So if you don't want to read any of it, because you're psychic and you already know everything I've got to say on the subject, nobody's trying to force you. Although admission is free, you can still go read a book or watch a movie if you'd rather, and I hope you have fun doing it. After all, if you can't enjoy yourself on occasion, what else is there? Unless you just enjoy insulting people because you don't care for the subject they've elected to discuss. If that's the case, knock yourself out, pal. Have fun!

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thefinalfrontier

Your insults mean nothing to me and in fact makes you sound rather uneducated, No pun intended but its the truth, psychics has nothing to do with not having to read your column but the reality is I have seen many of your articles about Hastings and a few others and it appears to be nothing more than damage control, (Look at it from the outside) Hastings makes a claim and soon after your articles appear. I have no complaints about you personally at all but rather was just saying I know the basics of your articles and pretty much know whats going to be said, (That simple)

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James Carlson

Your insults mean nothing to me and in fact makes you sound rather uneducated, No pun intended but its the truth, psychics has nothing to do with not having to read your column but the reality is I have seen many of your articles about Hastings and a few others and it appears to be nothing more than damage control, (Look at it from the outside) Hastings makes a claim and soon after your articles appear. I have no complaints about you personally at all but rather was just saying I know the basics of your articles and pretty much know whats going to be said, (That simple)

I haven't insulted you, sir. I've said your opinion originates from a position of ignorance, and that I don't give a damn what your opinions are regarding my efforts because of that. You, on the other hand, have insisted that I am childish, that I come across as uneducated, and that the details of the story I'm trying to tell are so predictable that you don't need to spend any time reading what I've written, when you could have accomplished as much by simply ignoring what I wrote instead of insulting me in a public forum without cause or necessity. The fact is, this is a new article that details a portion of this story that I have neglected in the past, a neglect that resulted in unfounded charges of hypocrisy, dishonesty, and the presentation of a careless argument, many coming from this very forum. They required an answer, and this is it. It is new information that I have not dealt with in the past, and it is the result of my having received additional records going back to the original case itself. These records come from the personal files of a NICAP investigator who was at Malmstrom AFB at the time, who I believe and about whom I have presented evidence in support of which, was responsible for the rumors of UFO involvement in 1967 that have infected this case since then, and that others have incorrectly used to assume actual UFO reports and incidents that did not, in fact, occur. It is a new article that details points of the story that I have not discussed in the past. If you don't want to read it, you certainly don't have to, but insulting me without cause or reason -- at least none that you're willing to discuss -- doesn't support your claims nor your insistence that you have no complaints about me personally. All you've done is complain, and all you've asserted are insults. I don't have a whole lot of patience for idiots like that, so I'm going to suggest you go **** yourself. You're a free man and you don't have to read what I've written, nor do you have to consider the arguments that I've presented, but the fact that you've logged onto this forum in order to do nothing but insult me and my writing, and suggest that I do something else entirely in order to "move forwards" does not show complete disinterest. The fact that you've apparently read all of my arguments doesn't suggest that you don't care what I have to say, as you claim, but the fact that you've continued to do so while taking the time to do little more than criticize and insult me in the process does suggest that you don't care so much for what I've had to say here and elsewhere. So don't read it, and don't discuss it -- that's a simple cure for what obviously ails you. Nobody is forcing you to read or respond, but if your only response consists of criticisms without the barest of consideration for the target of your apparent disgust, and without any explanations for that disgust, you're going to have to expect the same in return. So go **** yourself. You're a rude, ignorant man who writes comments with no purpose than to show your supposed superiority over the rest of the human race (or at least the one you've targeted here), but you indicate by that posture nothing but disdain and ill will towards people you don't know, can't understand, and refuse to consider. And like I've said here and elsewhere -- I don't have a whole lot of patience for people like that. I can be as polite and considerate as I need to be to people who exhibit the same concern, but I have no intention of doing so to those who don't. So, bite me. Edited by James Carlson

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booNyzarC

@ TFF I must admit that you've come across here as pretty aggressive. I find that completely out of character for you. Out of the box you were stating an opinion without full consideration. Your second post was also unfounded, because even though James was communicating in a less than fully respective tone, he still hadn't insulted you. After his last post, you might have reason to accuse, but from an outside observer - I can't say that I blame him after what you had stated earlier...

Hope everything is alright with you man. I know that a rough day can bring out unexpected things, I've gone through that many times. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out mate.

@ James It is really good to see you back. I haven't taken the time to read through the article, I just now saw it, but I do look forward to reading the new information soon when I have the time. And I hope to see you around more! I miss your verbose explanations in the BE thread! ;)

And please, let TFF off a bit for this encounter, it really is out of character and he is normally very level headed from my experience. If I had to wager a guess, I'd assume something else was rubbing him the wrong way when he noticed this. I obviously can't speak for him, but based on prior interactions that would be my best guess.

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James Carlson

@ TFF I must admit that you've come across here as pretty aggressive. I find that completely out of character for you. Out of the box you were stating an opinion without full consideration. Your second post was also unfounded, because even though James was communicating in a less than fully respective tone, he still hadn't insulted you. After his last post, you might have reason to accuse, but from an outside observer - I can't say that I blame him after what you had stated earlier...

Hope everything is alright with you man. I know that a rough day can bring out unexpected things, I've gone through that many times. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out mate.

@ James It is really good to see you back. I haven't taken the time to read through the article, I just now saw it, but I do look forward to reading the new information soon when I have the time. And I hope to see you around more! I miss your verbose explanations in the BE thread! ;)

And please, let TFF off a bit for this encounter, it really is out of character and he is normally very level headed from my experience. If I had to wager a guess, I'd assume something else was rubbing him the wrong way when he noticed this. I obviously can't speak for him, but based on prior interactions that would be my best guess.

Hi, booNyzarC -- great to hear from you! Hope you're having a great holiday, and I hope you enjoy the article when you get around to reading it. There seems to be an opinion making some headway that the mention of UFO rumors in the original command history documents proves that I was incorrect when I insisted that there were no UFO reports on March 16, 1967 when the Echo Flight incident occurred. What they don't take into account is the fact that the command history documents are drafted every three months, and the UFO rumors surrounding the incident were not an effect of UFO reports -- they were an effect of telephone calls and other interference from NICAP trying to substantiate a UFO where no UFO was reported. The confusion that resulted is entirely due to the fact that those individuals trying to insinuate a UFO into the discussion didn't have the clearance necessary to know anything at all about the actual case. Most of the UFO rumors surrounding the incident didn't even come about for another month or so after the fact, and they reflect nothing at all having to do with actual events. People should realize that command histories are summaries of events written by a low ranking enlisted clerk, a clerk in this case who was would be fired within another 5-6 months for incompetence. In any case, the evidence is compelling and the conclusions pretty positive that the rumors of UFO were due to interference by a NICAP investigator who thought he knew more about the case than he could properly show. UFO rumors don't substantiate a UFO, and they don't substantiate a UFO report either, which has been a point of some debate amongst some critics of late. If you had any idea how often I've had to read the insults of some folks arising from their insistence that "the records say right out front that rumors of UFOs in the region were looked into and shown to be groundless -- that proves that someone had to have reported a UFO, and someone had to have investigated that report," you would understand why I felt it necessary to account for those rumors. It's a silly argument, really. A UFO "report" is a written and signed statement by a witness that is forwarded up the appropriate chain of command, or has at the very least been mentioned in the newspaper, while a UFO "investigation" is a review of witness statements, environment, and sought testimony referenced, written out, and forwarded up the chain of command by the UFO officer, Lt. Colonel Lewis D. Chase. And in the absence of the documents necessary to substantiate one or the other, they don't exist -- period. The military defines in detail everything; they document everything as well. You take the absence of those important references and combine it with Chase's insistence that UFOs weren't involved, and most people would assume that UFOs weren't involved. Those who don't, however, prefer to believe that I'm deceptive rather than accept the fact that they're ignorant, and insist that UFO rumors, substantiated or not, proves I'm lying about there being no UFO reports on March 16, 1967. So they flake on it, and I'm left feeling responsible for their stupidity. I swear to God, man, this whole freak show can be very unhealthy to a guy's social development if he's actually trying to be informative. You probably need more patience than I've got! Anyway, it's good to hear from you again. Only the first part of the article has been published here -- but the second part will be up sometime soon, although there's a link that leads to the scrib'd page where I've posted the whole article. I do hope you enjoy it. If anything seems out of whack, or not explained in sufficient detail, let me know. And thanks for stepping in to give us your thoughts -- you're a good guy, who is loyal to his friends, and that's important and worthy, and should be appreciated. And it is.

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booNyzarC

Cheers James, I guarantee that I'll read it in full. And believe me, I'm all too familiar with silly arguments. ;)

There is one disconcerting thing about your posts in this announcement though, and I don't know if you are writing them at a computer or some new fan-dangled alien tech (joke ;) ) like an iPad or something, but what the hell happened to your paragraph structure!?

Hehe, I'm just ribbing you my friend. I managed to get through it and digested every word. I'll definitely read the full article as well, but I've been catching up on a few threads here tonight. Tomorrow, this is number one on my reading list. :tu:

Hope you had a fantastic Thanksgiving! And if not, come on over for some leftovers. My house is a tryptophan rich environment right now, with all of the supplementary needs equally plentiful. ;) Truthfully, we're going to need help finishing this bird... :w00t:

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James Carlson

B) B)

Cheers James, I guarantee that I'll read it in full. And believe me, I'm all too familiar with silly arguments. ;)

There is one disconcerting thing about your posts in this announcement though, and I don't know if you are writing them at a computer or some new fan-dangled alien tech (joke ;) ) like an iPad or something, but what the hell happened to your paragraph structure!?

Hehe, I'm just ribbing you my friend. I managed to get through it and digested every word. I'll definitely read the full article as well, but I've been catching up on a few threads here tonight. Tomorrow, this is number one on my reading list. :tu:

Hope you had a fantastic Thanksgiving! And if not, come on over for some leftovers. My house is a tryptophan rich environment right now, with all of the supplementary needs equally plentiful. ;) Truthfully, we're going to need help finishing this bird... :w00t:

Love it! Sounds like everyone's had a great Thanksgiving -- I'm glad to hear it. Just a quick update, here. During a period of research a year or so ago, I met an ex-missileer who was a SAC missile crew commander and staff officer at Malmstrom AFB about 20 years after my Dad was. His name is Tim Hebert, and I originally met him through one of the missileer community websites, "The Missile Forums" at www.missileforums.com. He has just published the results of his own independent investigation of the 1967 events, the UFO Echo Flight fracas, and you can read it at http://timhebert.blogspot.com/. I've just started it myself, but it's got a lot of detail, and he's obviously put a lot of effort into it. He's confirmed a number of matters for me in the past, and has served as a very honest, very thorough source of information as well, so I have no doubt that readers will get something worth appreciating out of his discussion. His knowledge of the daily work habits and environment of the SAC missile crew is second to none, because he did it for years, and he was good at it. I personally consider his insights invaluable to anyone who expects a well-balanced and fair consideration of this and comparable matters to be made before reaching a conclusion. When you have the time, you should check it out.

As for my paragraph structure -- ahem! -- it is what it is. It also, like everything else, tends to change with my mood. :yes: Which is totally cool. B)

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thefinalfrontier

Well boony to be honest I never singled Jim out at all, If you look at my first post you will see that I refered to both Jim and Robert and was refering to the ongoing uneasyness between the parties, I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I was stating mine, I find rather dishearting that the servicemen can go on and on like this, And to you Jim your not the only person who comes from a military background as I have been raised in a military family and I feel bad that I could not serve due to severe back injuries thats plauged me all my life, I may have came across rather gruff but like I said please try and have a look at this from the outside over the many years, I hold nothing personal about you or Hastings, What I do see is Hastings says yes something happened and your saying no it didnt and that is what I base my opinion on alone, you certianly do bring out some interesting points in your articles but on the other hand Robert does the same (thats the way I see it anyways)

Do I believe aliens are here causing havoc among the super powers? No not nessesarily But its a fact that there are some very compelling pictures,testimony,videos,ect. and my own personal sighting of a ufo to support such an ideal,

As to the reference of insults im sorry if I said something that you took personal and it was not meant to be that way, Thats the trouble with saying anything in a forum on the WWW rather than a personal conversation because you or I or anyone else can not tell what the intentions are without talking one on one,

As for Mr. Hastings I have not even bothered to watch the last conference because ive heard it all before, (same position as I took here)

Happy holidays to all,

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James Carlson

Well boony to be honest I never singled Jim out at all, If you look at my first post you will see that I refered to both Jim and Robert and was refering to the ongoing uneasyness between the parties, I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I was stating mine, I find rather dishearting that the servicemen can go on and on like this, And to you Jim your not the only person who comes from a military background as I have been raised in a military family and I feel bad that I could not serve due to severe back injuries thats plauged me all my life, I may have came across rather gruff but like I said please try and have a look at this from the outside over the many years, I hold nothing personal about you or Hastings, What I do see is Hastings says yes something happened and your saying no it didnt and that is what I base my opinion on alone, you certianly do bring out some interesting points in your articles but on the other hand Robert does the same (thats the way I see it anyways)

Do I believe aliens are here causing havoc among the super powers? No not nessesarily But its a fact that there are some very compelling pictures,testimony,videos,ect. and my own personal sighting of a ufo to support such an ideal,

As to the reference of insults im sorry if I said something that you took personal and it was not meant to be that way, Thats the trouble with saying anything in a forum on the WWW rather than a personal conversation because you or I or anyone else can not tell what the intentions are without talking one on one,

As for Mr. Hastings I have not even bothered to watch the last conference because ive heard it all before, (same position as I took here)

Happy holidays to all,

I'm sure you're right about UFOs in general. Although I've never seen one myself, I would never presume to say that nobody else has. I'm sure that there's some compelling evidence out there -- the longevity of the phenomenon has to mean something, although I'm not certain what. In any case, I don't have much to say about UFOs in general, because I don't know a whole lot about them. My interest in UFOs is pretty much relegated to the Echo Flight Incident. My knowledge of that one event is, however, extensive, as is my knowledge of military procedure and classified materials protocol, so while I may qualify as a one-trick pony, that one trick can knock your socks off. Cheers.

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thefinalfrontier

I'm sure you're right about UFOs in general. Although I've never seen one myself, I would never presume to say that nobody else has. I'm sure that there's some compelling evidence out there -- the longevity of the phenomenon has to mean something, although I'm not certain what. In any case, I don't have much to say about UFOs in general, because I don't know a whole lot about them. My interest in UFOs is pretty much relegated to the Echo Flight Incident. My knowledge of that one event is, however, extensive, as is my knowledge of military procedure and classified materials protocol, so while I may qualify as a one-trick pony, that one trick can knock your socks off. Cheers.

Thank you for your words Jim, I will in the future try and understand it all and I know that this one case has inhibited you and thats great for you (or maybe not), But I also know that its inhibited Hastings as well, so looking from the outside in is where I base my position,

As to ufos yes theres plenty to support the ideal and I feel its just a matter of time now,

Have yourself a good holiday season,

Regards;

TFF

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