Incandescent Light Bulbs are evil

[Answer42]

Incandescent light bulbs have been given a report card. They are slated to be phased our are will be phased out soon.

Wikipeida Phase-out of incandescent light bulbsFor me this smacks of greed and money but not to save you any. The cost of compact fluorescent light (CFL) bulbs are 3 to 4 times that of an ordinary bulb and you even get the added bonus of a hazardous chemical in the CFL bulbs. Do not even think of buying enough LED lights to really light a house unless it is owned by a doll. Additionally there is problem of the types of spectrum "put out" by the different bulbs. My wife does a good deal of sewing, bead work, and crafty type things. This requires a good deal of color recognition and close work. We use a combination of CFL ($2.50 each) and for the real close work, a halogen desk lamp and full spectrum incandescent bulbs ($2.60 for 4 of the incandescent bulbs). Both go out periodically and that is a problem when the CFL fails because of the cost. The CFL bulbs fail routinely. As for the heat produced from the regular incandescent bulbs this is plus in the winter. We live in a mild climate and one incandescent light bulb gives off enough heat to make a difference. Try using a CFL to hatch eggs in a brooder or one small enough to fit many microscopes. In short banning the incandescent bulb will create problems not solve them. My largest portion of my electric bill is based on the use of the cooling and heating units not how many lights I leave on in the house. I guess you can use alternates for many things but why fix what is not broken.

I am aware of other countries and the problems they may have with electricity use. But I do not fit that category. Ban them where it seems matter. Make the alternate light bulb technologies much cheaper.

[Wickian]

I always thought it was hilarious when people try to pull the "environment" card on incandescent bulbs and praise fluorescent ones. Aside from the bio-hazard you mentioned, most fluorescent lights are imported from out of the country. That's what I've read anyway.

[questionmark]

I always thought it was hilarious when people try to pull the "environment" card on incandescent bulbs and praise fluorescent ones. Aside from the bio-hazard you mentioned, most fluorescent lights are imported from out of the country. That's what I've read anyway.

Which means that the US industry has overslept another future technology.

[crystal sage]

The old lights were not evil... the new ones are !!!!

The CFL lights are made with mercury.. that slowly leaks into the environment.. and you need to get rid of "spent" ones or broken ones carefully..

They're breakable, contain toxic material, and are becoming increasingly commonplace. But fears of mercury poisoning from new energy-efficient fluorescent bulbs are overplayed, experts say.

But CFLs' cool-burning illumination is made possible by a pinch of poisonabout five milligrams of mercury sealed inside every glass tubeand the need for the element is unlikely to change anytime soon.

Mercury is a potent neurotoxin and long-lived environmental contaminant, and even the small amount present in CFLs poses a problem. When the bulbs break, either in the house or at a waste disposal site, their mercury content is released.

My link

As it is impossible to buy incandescent lights in Australia.. as the Government decided it for us.. :angry2: ..

As our lights kept blowing anyway, we decided to replace all our light fittings with halogen lights.. since then our energy bill has doubled ...

The guys who installed them last year said that it would reduce our energy bill !!!

maybe because..

RisksThere are a few types of things that can make halogen bulbs dangerous. These include heat, risk of explosion, being top heavy and the potential to ignite combustible liquids or fumes.

High Heat

Halogen light bulbs can reach temperatures much higher than traditional light bulbs. According to the New York State Fire Administration, a 300 W halogen bulb can reach temperatures as high as 970 degrees F. This high level of heat generation can potentially cause ignition of combustible fluids or fumes nearby.

My link

Incandescent lamps are not a source of ultraviolet radiation, and do not normally need UV filters. Incandescents do, however, generate heat (infrared radiation, or IR), which should be considered when illuminating plants or materials subject to drying damage.

and it appears that Tungston is radioactive..

It is true that halogen bulbs used in lighting fixtures release some UV radiation, but at a low level.

Read more: Are Halogen Lights Dangerous? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5511386_halogen-lights-dangerous.html#ixzz16RH0hvsc

Dangers of LED lights..

And as my house now has about 100 tungsten lights...

Fluorescent Dangers

Fluorescent lights emit microwave radiation.

Exposure to microwave radiation has been linked to cancer, childhood leukemia, autism, ADD and birth defects, while the toxic effects of mercury have been linked to alzheimers and brain damage.

Some common symptoms associated with fluorescent light exposure are:

dizziness

headaches

blurred vision

eyestrain

floaters

skin rashes

sinus problems

fatigue

nausea

sleep disturbances

mood swings

irritability

British health officials have warned that the new bulbs could worsen existing skin conditions, like eczema and dermatitis. Skin disorders that are photosensitive could react to the more intense light of fluorescent bulbs, which emit UV rays similar to outdoor exposure levels on a sunny day. Britains Health Protection Agency now recommends that people should not be closer than 30 centimetres from the energy-saving variety for more than one hour per day.

There are also concerns that the low-energy bulbs could be linked to headaches, nausea and seizures in people with epilepsy. The British charity Epilepsy Action says that some people with the condition have complained of dizziness, loss of focus and discomfort after being exposed to light from the energy-saving bulbs.

My link

The effects of lighting on the human functioning development and psychological effects are indeed profound. Try placing seedlings/plants adjacent to an unshielded fluorescent light at the end where the starter unit is located, they will surely wilt and die, (and this is most certainly not attributable to "heat" radiation, a conclusion some may readily jump to). Unshielded fluorescent lights are a menace to mankind and should be replaced by standard Tungsten filament lighting.

My link

Bring back the old light bulbs !!!!!

Edited November 27, 2010 by crystal sage

[crystal sage]

I might check out the Full Spectrum light bulbs.. as they sound good..

Conversely, companies that have switched to full spectrum lights report improved employee morale, greater productivity, reduced errors and decreased absenteeism

My link

But My linkit appears that they are the ones that contain mercury..

What to do... Go back to candle light????

[JGirl]

im glad we can still buy incadescent bulbs. it's a much softer and warmer looking light.

i use 25 watt bulbs in all my fixtures except the kitchen and bath. there i use hallogen.

[sepulchrave]

crystal sage, did you even read the links you posted?

The National Geographic one in particular is very pro-CFL.

Calling mercury a "dangerous neurotoxin" is blatant fear-mongering. Elemental mercury is quite safe - to play with, or even to drink. Long term exposure to elemental mercury vapours can cause problems, of course, but that isn't going to happen with CFLs - they have to be air tight, or they won't work.

Dimethyl mercury is extremely toxic, but there is none of that in CFLs. And don't worry, mercury leaking out of a CFL won't spontaneously methylate.

As for tungsten... Tungsten can be radioactive, but so can any element. (Carbon-13 is radioactive and it is in your body right now!.) The tungsten in your light filaments is not radioactive.

Edited November 27, 2010 by sepulchrave

[crystal sage]

crystal sage, did you even read the links you posted?

The National Geographic one in particular is very pro-CFL.

Calling mercury a "dangerous neurotoxin" is blatant fear-mongering. Elemental mercury is quite safe - to play with, or even to drink. Long term exposure to elemental mercury vapours can cause problems, of course, but that isn't going to happen with CFLs - they have to be air tight, or they won't work.

Dimethyl mercury is extremely toxic, but there is none of that in CFLs. And don't worry, mercury leaking out of a CFL won't spontaneously methylate.

As for tungsten... Tungsten can be radioactive, but so can any element. (Carbon-13 is radioactive and it is in your body right now!.) The tungsten in your light filaments is not radioactive.

Unless they get broken.. Why this warning then..

My link

and ..

Broken Compact Fluorescent LightsRelease Mercury Into the Air: Over 100 Times the EPA Limit

[questionmark]

Unless they get broken.. Why this warning then..

My link

and ..

you better get all your fluorescent light tubes out of the house too...they got the same stuff in them.

[Answer42]

Elemental mercury is a hazardous substance. The point is the dangerous mercury compounds was derived from the interaction of this and other naturally occurring substances. Mercury vapor has a high potential to cause illness especially in children. Any time we have used mercury in whatever process it was a deal with the devil. Not all mercury contamination is from anthropogenic sources but is present in minerals like cinnabar, a treatment for syphilis. As long as mercury remains sequestered and is not exposed to oxygen it should stay in a less harmful metallic state. When the sediment is disturbed it is exposed to air and the conversion to toxic organic forms of mercury are formed. These are then brought up through the food chain and concentrated at the higher trophic levels. Plants can sequester mercury in its tissues but do not seem to be react adversely.

My original point is simply not to ban incandescent light bulbs or any sort of light bulbs for that matter.

[sepulchrave]

Unless they get broken.. Why this warning then..

I'm not saying mercury isn't dangerous, I'm just saying the kind of mercury in CFLs isn't the deadly neurotoxin that your article seemed to insinuate.

Obviously you should limit your exposure to mercury. The main part of the EPA warnings is that you should never vacuum up a mercury spill. Sweep the fragments into a zip lock bag or a jar with a tight-fitting lid, and you will be fine.

Your second link, about the Maine study, is also misleading. The actual original report studying breaking CFLs in a small room shows a different picture. Only when a brand new CFL is thoroughly smashed with a hammer in an unventilated room and not cleaned up does a hazardous level of mercury persist within 1' of the break.

If a CFL breaks and you then:

1. Restrain yourself from totally grinding up the CFL fragments, and
   
2. Immediately sweep the fragments into a zip lock bag or a jar with a tight-fitting lid, and
   
3. Seal the bag or jar, and
   
4. Open a window or turn on a fan in the room, and
   
5. Wipe down the floor (or carpet!) with a liquid cleaning agent,
   

The spill site will be safe in less than 30 minutes.

In other news, you shouldn't turn on the microwave when you have metal objects in it, you should refrain from sticking your head in an oven preheated to 400 F, and you should avoid drinking drain cleaner.

-----------

It's fine to object to the environmental benefit of CFLs based on the manufacturing process. It's fine to not like CFLs because of the colour of the light they produce. It's fine to not want CFLs in your house.

But I really don't like articles which make false claims about the science behind CFLs. Chronic exposure to vapours of elemental mercury can cause serious health problems. But so can exposure to carbon monoxide - yet we still use gas-fired furnaces and gas-fueled cars. Exposure to alpha radiation is definitely a health risk - yet we still use americium in our smoke detectors.

Properly made CFLs are safe to use. If they break, providing proper ventilation to the room and promptly cleaning up the mess will keep you from getting exposed to too much mercury vapour.

[Guest]

I'm not saying mercury isn't dangerous, I'm just saying the kind of mercury in CFLs isn't the deadly neurotoxin that your article seemed to insinuate.

Obviously you should limit your exposure to mercury. The main part of the EPA warnings is that you should never vacuum up a mercury spill. Sweep the fragments into a zip lock bag or a jar with a tight-fitting lid, and you will be fine.

Your second link, about the Maine study, is also misleading. The actual original report studying breaking CFLs in a small room shows a different picture. Only when a brand new CFL is thoroughly smashed with a hammer in an unventilated room and not cleaned up does a hazardous level of mercury persist within 1' of the break.

If a CFL breaks and you then:

1. Restrain yourself from totally grinding up the CFL fragments, and
   
2. Immediately sweep the fragments into a zip lock bag or a jar with a tight-fitting lid, and
   
3. Seal the bag or jar, and
   
4. Open a window or turn on a fan in the room, and
   
5. Wipe down the floor (or carpet!) with a liquid cleaning agent,
   

The spill site will be safe in less than 30 minutes.

In other news, you shouldn't turn on the microwave when you have metal objects in it, you should refrain from sticking your head in an oven preheated to 400 F, and you should avoid drinking drain cleaner.

-----------

It's fine to object to the environmental benefit of CFLs based on the manufacturing process. It's fine to not like CFLs because of the colour of the light they produce. It's fine to not want CFLs in your house.

But I really don't like articles which make false claims about the science behind CFLs. Chronic exposure to vapours of elemental mercury can cause serious health problems. But so can exposure to carbon monoxide - yet we still use gas-fired furnaces and gas-fueled cars. Exposure to alpha radiation is definitely a health risk - yet we still use americium in our smoke detectors.

Properly made CFLs are safe to use. If they break, providing proper ventilation to the room and promptly cleaning up the mess will keep you from getting exposed to too much mercury vapour.

All very well said.

Let us also point out the fact that despite their higher initial cost they save money over their lifetime. Only 5% of the energy going into a tungsten bulb is converted into useful light - all the rest is wasted heat. that represents money down the drain (especially in warm countries).

Halogens are even worse.

On purely cost grounds CFL's are more than justified - on energy saving and hence pollution reduction - they are essential to a sustainable future.

If correctly disposed of they presnt absolutely no risk to the user or the environmenta and all of the Mercury contained will be recovered and recycled into new CFL bulbs.

Quit the irrational fearmongering.

Br Cornelius

[Leah G.]

Hold an EMF detector up to one if you think they are so safe and then go and tell people that are sensitive to that EMF that the rash and other symptoms are all in their heads. Leave my light bulbs alone....

[Princess Serenity]

I always thought it was hilarious when people try to pull the "environment" card on incandescent bulbs and praise fluorescent ones. Aside from the bio-hazard you mentioned, most fluorescent lights are imported from out of the country. That's what I've read anyway.

Think of the environment!

Yeah. Everything's harmful just like everything's bad for you. >>

[Guest]

Hold an EMF detector up to one if you think they are so safe and then go and tell people that are sensitive to that EMF that the rash and other symptoms are all in their heads. Leave my light bulbs alone....

Everything electronic has an EMF field associated with it - thats basic physics.

Maybe you will be giving up you computer because of the evil field it is emitting How about you mobile phone, or your SMPS or your TV. Get real.

Br Cornelius

[Answer42]

Everything electronic has an EMF field associated with it - thats basic physics.

Maybe you will be giving up you computer because of the evil field it is emitting How about you mobile phone, or your SMPS or your TV. Get real.

Br Cornelius

You should have a choice as to just what will give you your dose of EMF.

I seem to remember those fluorescent bulbs having a flicker and this could effect a person. Is this correct?

[Guest]

You should have a choice as to just what will give you your dose of EMF.

I seem to remember those fluorescent bulbs having a flicker and this could effect a person. Is this correct?

Indeed strip lights do have a flicker and that is associated with the fact that they use a choke ballast which works at 50hz which is just perceivable by the human eye. In most people this will be fatiguing after long exposure and certainly not very pleasant as a primary light source.

The difference with CFL's is that they use an electronic ballast which operates at many thousands of hz and so there is absolutely no perceptable flicker from them.

These are visual effects and have absolutely nothing to do with EMF fields.

The same technology which makes CFL's flicker free is the technology which makes you mini-phone charger possible.

Are you selective about phone chargers, do you not allow computers in your home, is WIFI banned in your house (an arguably much more serious threat to physical health than any of the other items).

Don't be prejudiced about one technology when I am certain you are not about all the others.

Br Cornelius

[ships-cat]

Well, I've replaced most of the lights in my flat with the new CFL type. This was .. umm... two years ago, and they havn't broken yet.

As for LED lights: I'm not aware of these being generally available in the UK (but the, I havn't looked that hard).

I DID use some theatre lights based on large diode arrays (around 100 in each lantern). They gave out a LOT of light (650W equivelant) for the power they used, and would certainly light up a room quite happily. (and THIS from a unit that included lower-efficiency red/green LED's in order to allow artistic colour-changes. If the unit had used exclusively blue LED's, then it would have been..gosh.. perhaps the equivelant of a 1kW bulb ? )

So I'm somewhat unconvinced by some of the above criticisms of CFL and LED.

meow purr

[Leah G.]

Everything electronic has an EMF field associated with it - thats basic physics.

Maybe you will be giving up you computer because of the evil field it is emitting How about you mobile phone, or your SMPS or your TV. Get real.

Br Cornelius

Umm, gee, I have an EMF detector and checked the radiation distance, those bulbs radiate further than my computer, in fact the only thing in my house that radiates further than one of those "safe" bulbs is the breaker box. Do your own research, I did.

[Guest]

Umm, gee, I have an EMF detector and checked the radiation distance, those bulbs radiate further than my computer, in fact the only thing in my house that radiates further than one of those "safe" bulbs is the breaker box. Do your own research, I did.

I am in no way concerned.

Br Cornelius

[Leah G.]

I am in no way concerned.

Br Cornelius

Then why say anything in the first place? It doesn't matter that some people, actually quite a lot, are sensitive to the EMF, as long as it is good for the earth, it's ok to expose people? People with Lupus are effected the worst, they are part of the earth. Until there is a better solution we should have a choice. And if you don't care about people then why care about the earth? It makes no sense at all. Science should always have compassion, without it, it is empty and hollow. Look at the cost for people and for the earth, do the changes you want, just go slowly, make the right changes and choices. There is nothing right about these new light bulbs.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Hatch

[Guest]

Then why say anything in the first place? It doesn't matter that some people, actually quite a lot, are sensitive to the EMF, as long as it is good for the earth, it's ok to expose people? People with Lupus are effected the worst, they are part of the earth. Until there is a better solution we should have a choice. And if you don't care about people then why care about the earth? It makes no sense at all. Science should always have compassion, without it, it is empty and hollow. Look at the cost for people and for the earth, do the changes you want, just go slowly, make the right changes and choices. There is nothing right about these new light bulbs.

I do not share your degree of concern. You have come to a conclusion on this which I do not share. On a cost benefit analysis the CFL's win for me.

I commented because the facts about these bulbs were been mispresented and they needed defending.

Br Cornelius

[Leah G.]

I do not share your degree of concern. You have come to a conclusion on this which I do not share. On a cost benefit analysis the CFL's win for me.

I commented because the facts about these bulbs were been mispresented and they needed defending.

Br Cornelius

I have come to my conclusion by doing the research myself and not relying on other's for my information. Before you can make a blanket decision you should do your own research like I did and not rely on others for your information. Do you know the effect on the earth for making these new light bulbs in China? Do you think they are as strict on water pollution as the UK? The best way to wash mercury away is with water, where do you think it's going? Whatever mercury touches is contaminated for life, it's not water soluable. It's a very toxic process to rid mercury contamination from anything not to meantion costly. The end result for those of us forced to use the new bulbs is not nearly as bad as it was represented. It's not as safe as an incandescent and it does have a cumulitive effect since mercury in any form does not wash out of a body, tree, river or dirt. Since it is a metal it doesn't stay in the air long if you break a bulb, you would nearly have to have your nose right next to it to have any real effect. Here in the US the bulbs have haz mat instructions for disposal on line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp Read this and read all the way down to the bottom where the people in China are getting poisoned. Tell me it is worth the cost savings. They really need to be banned! Not just for the users but for the manufacturers, the people they hire but also for the earth. In no way is this a green technology.

[crystal sage]

I have come to my conclusion by doing the research myself and not relying on other's for my information. Before you can make a blanket decision you should do your own research like I did and not rely on others for your information. Do you know the effect on the earth for making these new light bulbs in China? Do you think they are as strict on water pollution as the UK? The best way to wash mercury away is with water, where do you think it's going? Whatever mercury touches is contaminated for life, it's not water soluable. It's a very toxic process to rid mercury contamination from anything not to meantion costly. The end result for those of us forced to use the new bulbs is not nearly as bad as it was represented. It's not as safe as an incandescent and it does have a cumulitive effect since mercury in any form does not wash out of a body, tree, river or dirt. Since it is a metal it doesn't stay in the air long if you break a bulb, you would nearly have to have your nose right next to it to have any real effect. Here in the US the bulbs have haz mat instructions for disposal on line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp Read this and read all the way down to the bottom where the people in China are getting poisoned. Tell me it is worth the cost savings. They really need to be banned! Not just for the users but for the manufacturers, the people they hire but also for the earth. In no way is this a green technology.

Fluorescent light dangers

Fluorescent lights that illuminate supermarket dairy cases can oxidize milk, depending on the amount of exposure, and cause off-flavor and inactivate some vitamins in milk, according to research by Robert Marshall, University of Missouri food science professor.

My link

The scary thing is the hospitals are full of Fluorescent lights.. especially the section with the new borns..

[Leah G.]

Fluorescent light dangers

My link

The scary thing is the hospitals are full of Fluorescent lights.. especially the section with the new borns..

Yea, I'm not a big fan of margerine, non dairy creamers or nutrasweet either, they are all poisons that the green folk promote, why? It's either be thin or die getting there... It's not the natural condition to be stick thin, we build fat for the winter as our ancesters did even still, why? It'sthe natural condition. You mess with nature to much and she will throw something back at you. When they started thinking about fluorescent bulbs do you think they took in to concideration that they actually put some heat out and that cut down on the heating bills? No, don't think so. How many times have you held your hands next to an incandensent light bulb for warmth or to even dry your nails? They use them in hatcherys for warmth. Everything about the fluorescent bulb makes no sense. Everything they say it promotes sacrafices something else. Why even mess with a good thing? Did someone get mad at the light bulb guys??? GE just shut down a plant, oh that's helping the economy!! Now we get fluorescent lights from China because they are to expensive to make in the US and hazardous. The EPA would have a fit but at least they would still have a job. It's funny how it all ties together isn't it?? Someone hates US and is working from the inside don't you think? Gee, I wonder who that could be....

Ok, I feel better, sorry for the rant. This subject just makes my blood boil.