May 21, 2011 Jesus Is Coming Back

[Belial]

Starting to laugh and sound like

[Sevastiel]

And exactly how many religious predictions have ever come true?

Clue: less than one.

Literally or metaphorically? (0/???)

Maybe they were thinking in the extreme long term?

Eventually, some time some how, it will end...or, at least, the sun will and the rest of the dominos will follow. I'd hope we'd be off this hunk of rock and in the stars by then, but who knows for sure. There's always the chance of other cataclysmic potentials in the mean time, not to mention our own species-level sui-/homi-/geno- cidal tendencies of course.

Matthew 24:36 says that no one will know the day and hour, not the angels or Jesus. That seems a bit odd for the trinity, but so be it. ...

I like to use that point in these sorts of threads too. It seems to be ignored every time though. Inconsistent application of approach towards the contents can be irritating sometimes. Seeing what we want to see when it's convenient or warm and fuzzy...we're all guilty of it somewhere...

...

Of course, humans have an incredible capacity to find ways to abuse almost anything. I have a friend who can take the ingredients for making bread and use them to make explosives, does that mean bread-making is bad?

It probably would be seen and/or labeled that way by many as soon as that particular explosive cocktail started exploding in inconvenient locations with inconvenient results. I can almost imagine big brother going out of his way to restrict access to the ingredients afterwards.

Jesus is not coming back. You will not see Jesus in your lifetime or in your afterlife. Its a scam.

Unless you perceive Jesus as the embodiment of an archetypal process of thought representing inspiration, hope, optimism, joy, and love. In which case, the "time" is different for everyone...which would account for any one individual not knowing when or even if "he" would or will return into their lives and, subsequently, their world; since the world as we see and experience it is a process of our own willingness, conscious or otherwise, to interpret our experiences positively or negatively and therefore determine the worth and value of such things of our own volition.

From this basis, it can't be argued that Jesus exists.

Only the flesh such an existance would take form in.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Sevastiel

[Rocketgirl33]

Wow that is a very interesting story. And it goes to show you how growth and intelligence are definitely related to shaking off the superstition of religious belief. You can look back and see exactly what part of your brain (the emotional side) operates when you think that way and what part (the logical side) operates when you don't.

You can get a sense of the reverse of this when you examine the writings of John in the Bible. Some who study eschatology have argued that John was so upset that it seemed that the return of Jesus was not going to happen in his lifetime that he literally lost his mind.

You can see the delusion of a believer is so strong in this regard that even when the predictions of the end of the world don't happen and the time passes, instead of switching over to the logical and reasoning part of the brain the believer will often dig deeper and deeper into the emotional part resulting in a form of hysteria. Your story is a perfect example of this.

I too remember during the 80s when dooms day was supposed to be in the year 2,000. When you are waiting for something to happen that is not ever going to happen the freedom of lunacy is pretty straightforward. You can simply make up more and more stories like this.

Thank you for sharing the story!

Here's a link to the wiki version of revelation. Seems like a lot of believers on this site have not read it at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

Well written. I think that because I did go through the "exstreme" christian dilustion(sp) and then back to reality, it helped me to understand it more. Just because I understand how people can loose themselves in religious insanity, does not mean they can not be "saved" so to say. When I finally broke away from the teachings of religion some said that "Satan" got a hold of me! I always loved that, when the inquisiters tortured some one until they died they would say, "Satan wrung their neck," and I always thought that this was a good example for people to see, Satan clearly showed more compassion than god! So who is truely the evil one? In any event, the bible was written by MAN, just look at the cruelty displayed for all to see in the bible. Only humans could be so cold and hateful. IMPO the bible was written by man for the sole control of others. "Man created God in Mans Own Image" When I look back at were I was and see where Iam now, wow, what a difference. I finally found peace and if feels so very good! Being a christian was the most stressfull thing I ever had to do. I worried daily if I was doing the right thing in every move I made because I did not want to anger god. God was to much like my step dad was when I was growing up. I was always afraid that I would accidently move just the wrong way and p*** him off and that he would beat me for it. Christianity is the same way!! I do not live in fear anymore and I can not tell you how good that feels!

Peace and HO HO HO!!!

Rocketgirl

[Missile Punch]

Ha! I think it's awesome. Everybody can get SO into these religious topics! Which is good. Anyway! Personally, and I emphasize PERSONALLY because I am entitled to my own opinion (as everyone is), I have always struggled with the fact that people take religion and atheism to such extremes. It seems that most people either believe in one side of the spectrum, or the other. As if there exists no ground in between. I've always been a believer in God. I've also always been a believer in science! I DO believe that Jesus was a real person. I don't know whether or not he did everything that the Bible says he did, (ie. rose from the dead) but I do KNOW that whatever truth exists, whether this was just a regular guy, or he was in fact the savior of humanity, he is DEFINITELY one of the single most influential beings in the history of the world. Don't confuse that last statement with support of either side of the sprectrum, because me? I'm in between. I think that there exists truth in the Bible, but not having read the bible I only know that basic stories. I also believe that a book that has been around that long, and has been translated countless times, could not possible have avoided some drastic "alterations" to the story. That being said, I think that the truth of the writings should not be what is so heavily considered, it should be the lessons they teach (ie be a good person). For me, that is what importance lies within religion. I don't belong to a religious group, and I can say that comfortably while still standing strong with my belief in God. The problem with both sides of the spectrum (religion and atheism) is that people take it WAY to far. I'm not going to live my life in fear because we have religious nutcases who claim that the world is going to be crashing down around us, because honestly if the world WERE going to A- I doubt we'd have ANY way of knowing, and B- There probably wouldn't be much we could do about it anyway. However, we also can't have Einstein wanna-be's (not naming any names from this article) who run around trying to crush the importance that relgion holds in people's lives. I think that religion and spirituality are part of what makes a person a person, and that if one were to live his life based SOLEY upon logic and reason, well that would make it pretty difficult for me to recognize the difference between that person and a freakin machine. So I guess you could condense my ranting into a very small conclusive statement: The world NEEDS each of these extremes to keep the other extreme in line. Balance things out ya know? But it'd be nicer if everybody could be a little more open minded to a few ideas that contradicts their own, it doesn't hurt.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Believer117

[pickletoes]

Wow, do you really think Christians are systematically out to control and screw people over? I don't doubt that there are many who use religion for their own good, but come on, you think everyone does that? When the single most important command in the Bible is to love each other?

Can you not just give someone encouragement, instead of also using it to paint a broad negative stroke over Christians?

Pretty much yes when a "system" is involved and laws and the rights of other people I do think they exert a tyranny of the majority over others.

Don't get me wrong, some of my very good friends are Christian and I can have a supportive conversation with people who are struggling with their faith. I have actually even converted a few people back. These are spiritual people who need this belief system to function in the world. If they are depressed and sad or frustrated, of course I want them to believe what they want to believe.

However, when it comes to laws and other such issues these people are not the friendly folk, they are trying to make a religious country. Take a look at Bluefingers posts about Conviction if you want an idea.

It is one thing to have a mental illness that sort of calms you down, and another to try to impose the crazies on the country. Most of these people do support an agenda movement. Why do you think Sarah Palin is so popular.

[soulseeker]

HEY! thats my due date...LoL(not really)

[TheSpookyLlama]

I came from a Christian background, but I don't really consider myself a Christian anymore. My family raised me to think for myself and they didn't mind it when I stopped going to church.

Am I a Christian if I'm not going to Church every Sunday, not reading a Bible passage every night? Is it hypocritical or odd, then, to wear my St. John medal every day?

I think Christianity, in its core, is about personal belief with Jesus. My issue is not with the J-man (I hope He's not offended. It's my affectionate nickname for Him). My issue was how the church got its political mitts on and wrangled with Christianity, namely these two things:

#1- People who commit suicide go to hell.

#2- Homosexuals go to hell.

Somehow, I doubt this is what Jesus wanted. This is what I've concluded:

#1- People who commit suicide are one of the many souls Jesus wants to comfort. In fact, I believe they are #1 on His list considering the mental pain they're in.

#2- Jesus doesn't care about sexuality. As long as you do the right thing, treat other as you'd want to be treated, you're going to Heaven.

I'm slowly beginning to understand that Jesus is not the Church. He didn't found the Church, Peter did. Jesus was spreading His message long before there was a christian church.

It's a long road, and Jesus is the #1 most confusing thing ever, but I think once I understand that Jesus did not make all of these rules, it was men, I'll be satisfied.

[Maizer]

Just reading this gives me the shivers. What church did you go to? What denomination did your family belong to? Who burns the medals of war heroes? What scripture did they have to back up?

The major problem with many religions are, is that we oh so easily start worshiping the rules and laws. We, out of habit, forget the meanings and intentions behind the laws, and only follow the letter. We forget that rules were made FOR us, not the other way around. Thats how we take a verse like 'do not worship idols' and start burning other peoples things. And its only natural that the depraved acts of few make it onto the news. After all, loving each other and taking care of your family isn't exactly sensational news.

In the New Testament, a central part of Jesus's teachings was to remember that the rules exist for us, not the other way around. He probably broke enough laws to p*** off all religious folks back in the day. And still to this day, we fall so easily into strict rules and acts. Furthermore, God may do things that we cannot understand. The whole Bible is a cycle of God giving grace, humans being happy, humans forgetting, humans doing evil, and God giving grace yet again. And many times, we mistake the acts of man as the acts of God. Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean everything is sanctioned by God. As we all know, there are people today who use God as a tool, and surely there were people like that in the past, and in the Bible.

I agree there is no real proof that will convince anyone that God exists. But in my opinion, when I see people change into more loving beings, heal wounds and families, find joy and happiness in their lives, become better people, and find inner peace through the teachings of Christ, sometimes that can be the start of proof. But whatever the past, I am honestly, honestly glad you are thinking for yourself as you say. I'm glad your a much stronger person than before. Before, choices were made for you, and now you make your own choice. Growing up in a non-religious but very demanding family, I know a bit what that feels like.

[Maizer]

Pretty much yes when a "system" is involved and laws and the rights of other people I do think they exert a tyranny of the majority over others.

Don't get me wrong, some of my very good friends are Christian and I can have a supportive conversation with people who are struggling with their faith. I have actually even converted a few people back. These are spiritual people who need this belief system to function in the world. If they are depressed and sad or frustrated, of course I want them to believe what they want to believe.

However, when it comes to laws and other such issues these people are not the friendly folk, they are trying to make a religious country. Take a look at Bluefingers posts about Conviction if you want an idea.

It is one thing to have a mental illness that sort of calms you down, and another to try to impose the crazies on the country. Most of these people do support an agenda movement. Why do you think Sarah Palin is so popular.

Well if its a system, probably yes. I guess we've witnessed different systems. At the communities I've been, love, helping each other out, caring, sharing, healing, honestly, diligence, and high moral were always placed above any rule. Too bad in some places this has been forgotten.

As for laws, if they are genuinely well intentioned, I'll take a second look. I agree that any unarguably religious law has no place in our government.

As for laws, I su

[TrueBeliever]

Just reading this gives me the shivers. What church did you go to? What denomination did your family belong to? Who burns the medals of war heroes? What scripture did they have to back up?

The major problem with many religions are, is that we oh so easily start worshiping the rules and laws. We, out of habit, forget the meanings and intentions behind the laws, and only follow the letter. We forget that rules were made FOR us, not the other way around. Thats how we take a verse like 'do not worship idols' and start burning other peoples things. And its only natural that the depraved acts of few make it onto the news. After all, loving each other and taking care of your family isn't exactly sensational news.

In the New Testament, a central part of Jesus's teachings was to remember that the rules exist for us, not the other way around. He probably broke enough laws to p*** off all religious folks back in the day. And still to this day, we fall so easily into strict rules and acts. Furthermore, God may do things that we cannot understand. The whole Bible is a cycle of God giving grace, humans being happy, humans forgetting, humans doing evil, and God giving grace yet again. And many times, we mistake the acts of man as the acts of God. Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean everything is sanctioned by God. As we all know, there are people today who use God as a tool, and surely there were people like that in the past, and in the Bible.

I agree there is no real proof that will convince anyone that God exists. But in my opinion, when I see people change into more loving beings, heal wounds and families, find joy and happiness in their lives, become better people, and find inner peace through the teachings of Christ, sometimes that can be the start of proof. But whatever the past, I am honestly, honestly glad you are thinking for yourself as you say. I'm glad your a much stronger person than before. Before, choices were made for you, and now you make your own choice. Growing up in a non-religious but very demanding family, I know a bit what that feels like.

You always reply like an amazing human being that I am proud to share this planet with you. Thank you. I think you are a wise person irregardless of religion or not and I like you.

The medals thing they believed it was worshiping a false god............and there was no changing their minds. They were devout believers, twisted and sick, but very devout. It's why I think it IS so important WHAT we believe. And I am sure you would support figuring out how to have less extremism in religioins because you are right, many do find a beautiful and wonderful life with it. absolutely. I have seen it myself.

[3rd rock resident alien]

Jesus is not coming back. Its a scam, scamming you and everyone. Your age and current year is the evidence.

[Maizer]

You always reply like an amazing human being that I am proud to share this planet with you. Thank you. I think you are a wise person irregardless of religion or not and I like you.

The medals thing they believed it was worshiping a false god............and there was no changing their minds. They were devout believers, twisted and sick, but very devout. It's why I think it IS so important WHAT we believe. And I am sure you would support figuring out how to have less extremism in religioins because you are right, many do find a beautiful and wonderful life with it. absolutely. I have seen it myself.

Wow hey thanks for the kudos. I'm pretty humbled, I think I talk a lot better than my actions, which I'll try to improve . And I don't know what to feel about that part of the family that burned the medals. Disbelief? Pity? Anger? It's just hard to believe someone would do that. You seem like a much more open minded, intelligent and caring person. Hopefully that part of the family can look at you and change for the better?

[TrueBeliever]

Wow hey thanks for the kudos. I'm pretty humbled, I think I talk a lot better than my actions, which I'll try to improve . And I don't know what to feel about that part of the family that burned the medals. Disbelief? Pity? Anger? It's just hard to believe someone would do that. You seem like a much more open minded, intelligent and caring person. Hopefully that part of the family can look at you and change for the better?

I have a lot of sympathy in one way. I think they truly believed they were worshipping a 'false' god and were trying to be 'good' as determined by their understanding of what the Bible and their god wanted from them. On the OTHER hand I am of course enraged and outraged beyond belief. It is incomprehensile but nonetheless it happens in the fringe communities of believers. The church I grew up in always had off shoot communities and people fighting and thinking THEY knew what god wanted more than another.

You can't offer freedom to someone who thinks their prison cell is the perfect martrys paradise.........I wish they could be released from their indoctrination, but they believe sooooo strongly that they are and were doing G-ds will, and nothing will change that because it isn't a negative thing for them. Suffering to them is making them closer to Jesus.

[ArtBlue]

(rolling eyes)...The decay of objective truth is readily available outside the church as well as inside the church. If you ready through why Harold Camping, the guy who's organizing this ridiculous 'end of the world' nonsense, thinks the end is coming on May 21, 2011, you will clearly see post-modernism in full swing. Anyone interested in doing so can find an article I wrote a while back located here: http://www.cltruth.com/blog/2011/is-jesus-christ-coming-back-on-may-21-2011/

Now, I am a Christian, and I became a Christian in spite of ridiculous things like these, because I chose to dig deeper into the claims of Christianity and all other worldviews. Yes, on May 22 we Christians will look incredibly stupid because of the actions of one man who teaches the Bible without really understanding it.

[Damrod]

It's not religion that's at fault, it's people. Almost all religions contain good messages. Kindness, compassion, temperance and tolerance. It's the limited intellect, mental illnesses and character defects of people that cause it to be twisted into a weapon or a philosophy of hate. I have read the Bible, the Bhagavad-gita, the dao de xing and other philosophies. The problem comes in when fear and ignorance allows for a deliberate misinterpretation of the philosophy and concepts.

Someone said "cant you see the harm in religion?"...No...I see the harm from people twisting and perverting an otherwise harmless idealism into an agenda of hate and intolerance and all out war against anyone or anything they fear or do not understand...that's where the problem is...it's not words on a piece of parchment, it's the people that read them.

[Sylent Nyte]

Make no mistake I'm a Christian but to be bold enough to pick a date based on what you think the scripture reads Jesus will return? I'm not going along for this ride folks. I feel like he will return one day but not in our life time. Some say soon and have for many years now but some are saying on May 21st 2011 check out this news link.

http://www.ajc.com/lifestyle/billboard-campaign-claims-jesus-771570.html

Now this has given me a damned good idea. If and when "Jesus" comes back, now we can kick him down a pit while screaming "THIS IS EAAAAAAAARTH~AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!" While showing him our WAR FACE.

[McKenna]

Make no mistake I'm a Christian but to be bold enough to pick a date based on what you think the scripture reads Jesus will return? I'm not going along for this ride folks. I feel like he will return one day but not in our life time. Some say soon and have for many years now but some are saying on May 21st 2011 check out this news link.

http://www.ajc.com/lifestyle/billboard-campaign-claims-jesus-771570.html

I think you need to read the bible dude. Read Mathew. There you will find Jesus telling his followers that only the Father(God) knows when the world will end. Nobody else can know. Because satan and his followers are always watching,listening,etc. So, I serioiusly think this topic is closed.

[Marv.2]

My belief is Jesus didn't say he was coming back.

I think that stuff was added to the Bible.

[Wookietim]

So the conclusion is this to me. Either religion is a bunch of bullhonky and god will not judge you.

Or...

God is an elitist that will condemn a lot of good people for the sake of what they were taught to believe.

Hmmm. Not a very pleasant situation.

What are your thoughts.

You know, if God does exist then I would suspect that an all-powerful being that runs the entire universe probably has more important things on his mind than whether you went to one building and said one set of words or if you went to a different building and said different words. Let's face it - all religions (at their core) have pretty much the same message : Be a good person and don't do bad things. Which, interestingly, is pretty much the core values of most atheists as well...

So if there is a God (I don't think so myself but if there is) then I don't think religion or lack of it really matters.

[ArtBlue]

My belief is Jesus didn't say he was coming back.

I think that stuff was added to the Bible.

Marv, Jesus is known to have said this and his apostles/disciples wrote it down. We have evidence from the manuscripts that many of these writings go back to between AD 40-35 only a few years after Jesus' death. There are manuscripts from around AD 50, AD 100, AD 200, AD 300, etc. and they all have virtually the same text. When we compare the earliest manuscripts with the most recent ones we see that the biblical text is 99.5% consistent and the remaining .5% is only because of grammatical/spelling inconsistencies.

What this means is that the Bible we have today (properly translated versions) has 99.5% accuracy with what was written originally. No other classical literary work has anything close to this kind of accuracy and goes back further to the actual events it was depicting.

[shadowhive]

ultimately it's just another form of scare mongering.

In the 19th century another person claimed the rapture was coming. People beleived it so much they sold their posessions, their houses, stopped taking medication. On the day of the 'rapture' some of them even jumped off buildings or killed themselves after it. When the day came and went and nothing happened the ther believers literally had nothing.

Now, do you see people doing any of those things? No. It just shows how much people have grown up and how people are no longer willing to beleive blindly in stuff like this. Sure, I'm certain a few people are doing stupid things due to genuine belief it'll happen tomorrow, but that's a very small number compared to the rest of us who are just rolling our eyes at the notion.

[Damrod]

There are a few things I find somewhat disappointing as I read over these topics about the "doomsday" predictions in this forum board and others...not just the one tomorrow or the one in 2012 or...any of them really.

It's not just that people are so gripped by fear of death that they are practically paralyzed or that they believe in a higher power or Universal benevolent spirit...it's also the "other" people as well.

Many people that attend and participate in this website, including myself, like to think we are educated, that we have an intellectual or even superior view of things because we don't need classical philosophy or "that religion stuff". As I said before, I have read nearly all the foundations of the major religions. What is disheartening is how many people come on to criticize and belittle people that embrace these things, call it quackery and then completely misquote what the religions say or the followers believe. There is a term for that...it's called ignorance...Ignorance isn't stupid, ignorance is a lack of knowledge...and ignorance can be fixed.

For me, I found it difficult to judge something I was totally ignorant about. I wanted to know what they really believed, not what someone else told me. Once you read the philosophies of multiple beliefs, you can then be in a position to evaluate it...you cannot evaluate something based on rumor or hearsay...that's not very scientific.

I don't prescribe to any of them, but at least I took the time to educate myself about them before I passed judgement on them. I would hope others would do the same before reigning down your personal enlightened opinion that is based on rumor, hearsay and ignorance.

If that offends anyone, I am sorry. If you want to proclaim yourself as being capable of passing judgement on what someone else believes, you should actually try to understand it first. But that's just my opinion I suppose.

[Marv.2]

Marv, Jesus is known to have said this and his apostles/disciples wrote it down. We have evidence from the manuscripts that many of these writings go back to between AD 40-35 only a few years after Jesus' death. There are manuscripts from around AD 50, AD 100, AD 200, AD 300, etc. and they all have virtually the same text. When we compare the earliest manuscripts with the most recent ones we see that the biblical text is 99.5% consistent and the remaining .5% is only because of grammatical/spelling inconsistencies.

What this means is that the Bible we have today (properly translated versions) has 99.5% accuracy with what was written originally. No other classical literary work has anything close to this kind of accuracy and goes back further to the actual events it was depicting.

I think you are overestimating the accuracy. It really depends on which scholars you want to believe. Some have a vested interest and want to uphold the idea that the Bible has no errors. Considering the inconsistencies that we do know of, it would not be surprising to me if these predictions did not come directly from Jesus.

But if I am wrong, and Jesus said this, then I would have to say that I just don't believe Jesus is coming back in a Rapture event.

In my reading of the Bible, I think that in some parts the authors emphasize a lot of debate between Jesus and the Temple elders of his time. People were fed up with Rome and they wanted a big impressive revolt by a messiah and they wanted it right then and there. People were worked up (like some people are now).

I think some of the hysteria and anger of the time must have been an influence on the authors. To ignore the possibility and say everything in the Bible is 99.5 percent accurate seems like a very big assumption.

---------

I can sort of understand where you are coming from though. You have an interest in the rapture idea. I have taken up the side of the debate that you are now trying to further in the past.

I think there are some facts in the Bible, but no one can realistically deny that there is a lot of symbolism and embellishment as well. Just read the gospel of John and compare it to Mark or Matthew or Luke. Jesus is almost a different person in John. Matthew and Luke can't agree on Jesus' genealogy.

So really, a simple comparison reveals multiple inconsistencies.

I think people are meant to be thoughtful and discerning when reading something like the Bible.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Marv.2

[IamsSon]

Now this has given me a damned good idea. If and when "Jesus" comes back, now we can kick him down a pit while screaming "THIS IS EAAAAAAAARTH~AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!" While showing him our WAR FACE.

Actually, if you read the Book of Revelation that is essentially what happens... but when you face the being who actually created the ground you're standing on all that bravado means zip.

[The Religious Hoax]

Granted followers of Harold Camping are statistical outliers amongst the religious, this Rapture debacle further strengthens the argument that religion causes more harm than good. It also paints those as religious as intellectually inferior and insecure. Why else would anyone believe that those who don't follow some silly brainwashing effort by the church are destined to hell?

Christians better focus on some damage control after the Rapture proves to be a non-event. The whole world will be laughing at their silly faith, and rightfully so. As Ghandi wisely said:

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."