The TAPS Flashlight Test

[Philt]

I think the Southpark Episode with TAPs says it all.

Now that sounds like entertainment......

[_Only]

Now that sounds like entertainment......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAXN_1c8XMI&feature=related

[Mark is Back]

Alright - well..

First thing I have to do is take a shot at the fellow investigators.. You're 100% in the wrong for saying you have 100% proof or 100% believe something related to our testing equipment. The flaw in and of itself is that we don't have completely dedicated equipment to perform these tests which are all still based on theory. It's your job to be a skeptic and a believer all tied into one. The second you make the claim of 100% belief teeter some credibility.

And next - Aye, the gents from GH are actually really great guys who, in the event of a suggested method or test for investigation, often attempt to utilize that suggested method. The 'flash light test' was just one of these occurrences. Aye sure it could almost be convincing that it was legit responses, and really we can't know there weren't some in the hours of questioning done by hundreds of people trying this method. They do not fake their evidence, the editing and the live show hoax were beyond them (SyFy), and believe me they were not too pleased with the incident..

As for the dress code quip, who here is complaining about how tight Kris Williams jeans are? Every good show needs some ratings boosters, and the ladies are it more often tha not.

Finally - No, the flashlight 'test' is not a valid indicator of interaction, not in my eyes or anyone's who spent the time testing or thinking on the concept. It's far too simple for a tainted pool of 'evidence' - So I'd remove it from your test lists and please, just like the millions of aperture orb pictures, DO NOT POST VIDEOS of this interaction as "PROOF" - you merely damage the progress we're all trying to make.

All in all, SURE if you can confirm it with other equipment, then feel free to consider some of it - but never accept it as a standalone.

[_Only]

They do not fake their evidence...

Two words: jacket pull.

[Mark is Back]

Two words: jacket pull.

Of course, I expected this to be linked again. If you want to know how furious Grant was after this incident, ask him about it at a convention or appearance some time. I got to hear his take on it. The gentlemen, and ladies, from the show do not fake anything. That was orchestrated as a 'back up' in case the event wasn't "eventful" by people involved with the production team(which is why, after inspection by Jason, it re-triggered) those affected directly had no idea it was going to happen, nor how it happened. Trust me, they were unaware of the entire thing until it was too late, and instead of flip out in air, or expose the whole thing, it was argued tastefully after the show.

Since then, there are multiple checks in place among their own crew before similar events.

All I know is yes, that was a bogus hit, no they didn't have anything to do with it.

Unfortunately in that kind of light you have to be VERY careful how you handle something like that, you can't bite the hand that feeds.

I will say, yes as always things are questionable, look at the field of study - EVERYTHING WE DO is questionable, and picked apart by skeptics trying to find some other explanation. Had someone to go as far as to tell me the sounds we had on audio were the result of expert thieves breaking into the location we investigated, who must have avoided our camera's with expert skill, before he'd believe maybe it was paranormal (despite dozens of attempts to debunk).

So yes, question everything you see, sure. I would expect nothing less, but I wouldn't lay this on the line as a "EVERYTHING IS FAKE" prove all end all - you won't accept one video clip from a specific 3 - 10 second section as proof ghosts exist, then don't accept one clip as "they fake everything." Go to the source and find out exactly what happened.

[_Only]

All I know is yes, that was a bogus hit, no they didn't have anything to do with it.

If you really want to ignore the video, and go by Grant's word that it was above his head and he knew nothing about it then that's fine, but don't expect people to logically give that notion the time of day. Political answer you gave aside, Grant and Jason were clearly aware of this jacket pull stunt, as they were the ones controlling and executing it.

And it is logical to assume that, if they faked one paranormal situation, they most likely have done it before, and are going to do it again. It's TV entertainment first and foremost. I agree they aren't setting out to create a fake show of constant elaborate hoaxes, but they will do this if they can't get any evidence of entertaining worth. And, you being a paranormal investigator yourself, know how often this situation is. There's only so long that the audience is entertained by "oh, did you hear that" and "I saw a shadow I think".

I fully believe he was furious about people finding out about the jacket stunt.

[Mark is Back]

Yes I'll take his word on this one, especially because I also know what they go through with their producers and how their agreement is set up with them as to what is aired, and how, for all of their taped shows.

I'm not ignoring the video, nor do I expect anyone to rethink their stance on the matter, the incident in question was definitely faked, but I assure you it wasn't their doing since neither of them knew about the rigging - nor did they execute it. (If they had, why would they slip up so badly and let it trigger like it did? And if it was knowingly planned it would have been common knowledge to the team so they could have switched cameras during the live-pause that any live aired show has.) If it were intentional and planned, you'd have never gotten anything to have a YouTube video.

I'd like to know where you deduced that they 'were clearly aware' of the stunt... without speaking to them? Once you get to know them like I have you'll realize these guys aren't even the least bit like that and have outright told SyFy that they can't air a case that had amazing things happen for various reasons, or told them they can't air questionable evidence. They have more control than you'd think when it comes to their taped shows.

Of course it's Television Entertainment first and foremost, which is why they are out of their homes nearly 3/4 of the year filming for episodes. They don't air every place they go, and they don’t always find something. If they find nothing, they find nothing. They admit this willingly and have been many places where nothing was found at all. They are actually extremely picky about a lot of their evidence and have hours of footage cut from ever airing because it was 'questionable' or open to extreme skepticism without the ability to prove to everyone else there wasn’t outside interference. They are also visiting some of the most notoriously 'active' locations in the country with a huge number of frequent claims in hopes of catching something - I'd expect them to be more successful than your average team out there.

And yes as a Paranormal Investigator I know the dead ends (no pun) and the long days and nights of no activity. This is why we have many other focuses with our team.

Just trying to shed light on the other side of the story - and honestly you're taking an awful lot from the video that isn't presented in it...

oh and before it's accused I'll clarify - I'm not on some hero trip defending them because I idolize them and I'm not a 'fanboy' standing in line to ask them about these things. Simply adding what I've learned over time from random discussions, and I hate people not getting both sides of the story.)

[vitruvian12]

Yes I'll take his word on this one, especially because I also know what they go through with their producers and how their agreement is set up with them as to what is aired, and how, for all of their taped shows.

I'm not ignoring the video, nor do I expect anyone to rethink their stance on the matter, the incident in question was definitely faked, but I assure you it wasn't their doing since neither of them knew about the rigging - nor did they execute it. (If they had, why would they slip up so badly and let it trigger like it did? And if it was knowingly planned it would have been common knowledge to the team so they could have switched cameras during the live-pause that any live aired show has.) If it were intentional and planned, you'd have never gotten anything to have a YouTube video.

I'd like to know where you deduced that they 'were clearly aware' of the stunt... without speaking to them? Once you get to know them like I have you'll realize these guys aren't even the least bit like that and have outright told SyFy that they can't air a case that had amazing things happen for various reasons, or told them they can't air questionable evidence. They have more control than you'd think when it comes to their taped shows.

Of course it's Television Entertainment first and foremost, which is why they are out of their homes nearly 3/4 of the year filming for episodes. They don't air every place they go, and they don’t always find something. If they find nothing, they find nothing. They admit this willingly and have been many places where nothing was found at all. They are actually extremely picky about a lot of their evidence and have hours of footage cut from ever airing because it was 'questionable' or open to extreme skepticism without the ability to prove to everyone else there wasn’t outside interference. They are also visiting some of the most notoriously 'active' locations in the country with a huge number of frequent claims in hopes of catching something - I'd expect them to be more successful than your average team out there.

And yes as a Paranormal Investigator I know the dead ends (no pun) and the long days and nights of no activity. This is why we have many other focuses with our team.

Just trying to shed light on the other side of the story - and honestly you're taking an awful lot from the video that isn't presented in it...

oh and before it's accused I'll clarify - I'm not on some hero trip defending them because I idolize them and I'm not a 'fanboy' standing in line to ask them about these things. Simply adding what I've learned over time from random discussions, and I hate people not getting both sides of the story.)

Are you saying someone rigged his jacket and pulled it remotely somehow? Cant you clearly see him pulling the string at his cuff himself?

[_Only]

Here's an example of Jason and Grant being aware of something faked.

EVP or Studio Fed Sound Effect?

On their live show, they "caught an EVP" of something, then the guest they had come with them unknowingly was giving away the hoax by explaining to the 2 that he could hear the "EVP" in his earpiece, "clear as day". As it was being fed in from the Ghost Hunters production team. Instead of acknowledging what he said and finding it odd, the 2 quickly try to change the subject with things like "yeah, I heard it right there" and making a quick, out of place joke, which is uncomfortably laughed at, then they feel they can move on.

Then he asks again "when you heard the voice did anything pop up in here" (the earpiece), and again, they change the subject totally avoiding the question, and talk about footsteps and seeing things.

If you agree that some things on the show are faked, but the hosts are unaware when this is being done, and it's just the evil production team, I think you are being a bit too naive, or just trying to protect Jason and Grant's credibility for whatever reason.

edit - Edited video link to jump to the right point in video.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jerry Only

[Mark is Back]

It's the live events that become the issue, again instead of posting an immensely long post about the entire situation.. Seriously just ask them some time.

There is a reason their contract was renegotiated in the last few years.

Never said the those events weren't b/s either.

[_Only]

It's the live events that become the issue, again instead of posting an immensely long post about the entire situation.. Seriously just ask them some time.

I've heard them lie in interviews before and on the show, so, I don't see how that would get me anywhere.

Immensely long?

Never said the those events weren't b/s either.

But you said James and Grant had no knowledge of the hoaxes. Which is pretty ridiculous, as in the collar hoax, when the collar goes down, he overacts a fake motion like he's being tugged by some unseen force.

Sweet acting.

Be careful when believing something simply by taking someones word for it. People lie. Especially when being caught in a lie, with a name to keep for themself.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Jerry Only

[Mark is Back]

Be careful when believing something simply by taking someones word for it. People lie. Especially when being caught in a lie, with a name to keep for themself.

I know people lie; my work even revolves around that principle. However, the situation at hand isn't mine to explain. There are more involved details, and all incidents are related to a live event that was beyond their original control.

When he disappeared, it becomes obvious he was informed - It was a last minute decision of the production team, neither of them had any knowledge of it prior to the entire incident. I apologize for trying to just tip the info so people can form their own conclusion on it - but it seems someone p***ed in your oatmeal.

They're both good folks, and aren't the sort to fake things (AGAIN why their contract was renegotiated and full control of their investigations was given to TAPS and not SyFy).. Was a dark day in their history and of course people will lose trust because of it yet I say take a look at future actions and how things have played out since.

Further details, just ask them at any of their events or if your fortunate enough to be able to hang out with them away from the public.

-edited

Though I do enjoy a good debate - they're much better held in person, and when I'm not at work lol..

Been fun, sorry for interjecting - I'll let the tirade continue.

Edited September 28, 2011 by M457ERSP00K

[Evo]

Why is that a test anyway? I thought the usual way was with knocks. Besides, when you think about it, why would the spirit there, if there is one, feel obligated to respond to our requests anyway?

Exactly. If I were a spirit, I'd scare the hell outta them and get my laughs.