WikiLeaks

[Helen of Annoy]

The Guardian and other such outlets that you elude to that are sympathetic to Assange have been banned from American military personal and could be punished if caught reading them. What does that say.

It says they are a bit too late with that ban, since the whole thing leaked out of their sources

I’m not sure about that leakage... people were falling out of windows, had heart attacks, slipped on soap breaking their neck in their bathroom and whatnot for far less and now all they can do to this Assange guy is some half-assed sex scandal. Two assed, actually. Never mind.

Also, the so called secrets were not secrets at all. What was new or outrageous in Wikileaks? Nothing. It looks like a pile of completely known and useless info was thrown out in public to create the feeling the cat is out of the bag. This particular cat never was in the bag, it walks around in the open the whole time.

What would be truly interesting to know is why is this silly operation done and why now. What is going on that has to be kept out of focus by artificial scandals like this one?

[The Silver Thong]

It says they are a bit too late with that ban, since the whole thing leaked out of their sources

I’m not sure about that leakage... people were falling out of windows, had heart attacks, slipped on soap breaking their neck in their bathroom and whatnot for far less and now all they can do to this Assange guy is some half-assed sex scandal. Two assed, actually. Never mind.

Also, the so called secrets were not secrets at all. What was new or outrageous in Wikileaks? Nothing. It looks like a pile of completely known and useless info was thrown out in public to create the feeling the cat is out of the bag. This particular cat never was in the bag, it walks around in the open the whole time.

What would be truly interesting to know is why is this silly operation done and why now. What is going on that has to be kept out of focus by artificial scandals like this one?

You are talking deflection. Create a big story in the news and while everyone is focused on this something slips by un noticed and then it's to late. If that's the case we are probably in for a big surprise. If Assange is a part of this deflection then we better beware. I personally don't think he is evolved in a cover up or deflection and is exposing things he feels are crimes. However he could just be a pawn.

[Helen of Annoy]

You are talking deflection. Create a big story in the news and while everyone is focused on this something slips by un noticed and then it's to late. If that's the case we are probably in for a big surprise. If Assange is a part of this deflection then we better beware. I personally don't think he is evolved in a cover up or deflection and is exposing things he feels are crimes. However he could just be a pawn.

He probably isn’t aware of what he’s been used for, in my humble opinion, of course. And it doesn’t matter anyway. What matters is that public is accepting widely known facts as spectacular news, believes Assange brought that spectacular news to them by risking his life, so he is now established as an reliable source, a hero of free speech. Let him leak anything you wish now, people will eagerly take that as sacrosanct truth.

On the other hand, I might just be paranoid. Maybe US is really that sloppy and modern diplomacy is really that crappy.

[The Silver Thong]

He probably isn’t aware of what he’s been used for, in my humble opinion, of course. And it doesn’t matter anyway. What matters is that public is accepting widely known facts as spectacular news, believes Assange brought that spectacular news to them by risking his life, so he is now established as an reliable source, a hero of free speech. Let him leak anything you wish now, people will eagerly take that as sacrosanct truth.

On the other hand, I might just be paranoid. Maybe US is really that sloppy and modern diplomacy is really that crappy.

The main stream media in the US is controlled by corporate and political desire meaning the media picks not the people. Julian is being made an example of for exposing America's sloppiness and many others including Canada's. I think he will be silenced and made an example of to others as to not do what he has done.

It's a campaign to show that the people should not question authority and be complacent in what your/their government says and not does. With the net now monitored to the extent it is only a good hacker/journalist willing to sacrifice them self becoming a martyr will expose truth.

They will be slandered for doing so hence fading into nothingness if we don't take back control of the governments we allow to exist. We the people.

[PETER GORE SEER]

I cant under stand ,he has committed suicide,US will go after him .I personally wish him all the luck in the world ,and I will light a candle for him.

[bee]

Assange got his hands on some documents that showed how "the world's policeman" (and what an apt description that is!) is behaving in the name of its citizens. The reaction from corporates and governments has been depressing but unsurprising. Amazon, PayPal and MasterCard have cut off any way for Wikileaks to get money. Even the supposedly incorruptible and impartial Swiss have frozen his assets. Assange has been targeted by ludicrous rape charges by the Swedish government, which were on, then off, then on again. Apparently, the Library of Congress is now blocking Wikileaks. Anybody who ever wrote for Wikileaks has had their journalistic credentials revoked.

Needless to say, the British government and police are eager to do their bit to get this annoying man behind bars.

All this from making publicly available information that was already open to access by 2.5 million people, allegedly. Information that was not even classified as particularly sensitive. All it did was shine a bit of a light on what governments do in our name, in the hypocrisy of publicly telling us wars can be won while privately believing they cannot among other, more trivial things.

Depressingly but equally predictably, statists from all sides of the political spectrum have been casting aspersions on Assange and his motivations. To them, the fact that governments have been lying to us about their beliefs in dragging us into wars, using our money on things even they consider fruitless, isn't as important or worrying as the fact that someone exposed them.

It's very, very clear to me that Assange is being vigorously and thoroughly hung out to dry pour encourager les autres, to make sure that anyone who is thinking about rocking the boat of the state is thoroughly discouraged. It's a very depressing state of affairs that the first man to seriously constructively and effectively challenge the state's ethics via the internet is being so thoroughly slapped down.

The problem for the state is that you can't recan these worms. A small corner has been lifted. Some people have seen what is being done in their name and now have their doubts. I'm sure that the comprehensive attack on Assange will also inspire some people to become martyrs in order to continue the fight. And finally, Wikileaks as it stands, is fighting back with hundreds of mirrors around the globe. I don't think that states are actually going to be able to shut it down completely and this heavy-handed action will eventually raise more questions than the leaks themselves.

The only way for the state to survive at all is going to be to realise that they have to accept the transparency they seem to feel they are entitled to demand of us. With a bit of luck, this whole fiasco will be the start of a rebalancing of the relationship between the state and the individual.

I think it's too much to hope that it will be the start of the end of the state, though.

bolded.....I think Assange is tough but he's still only human

this whole thing has a long way to run legally

I suppose it is a standard move to try and cripple your opponent with

legality.....trumped up charges....inconvenience....drawing attention

away from the leaks themselves...sending a message to would be hackers

I think he's in a strong position at the moment

although it has been made to look like the opposite?

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[bee]

I cant under stand ,he has committed suicide,US will go after him .I personally wish him all the luck in the world ,and I will light a candle for him.

the US are going after him and I am actually proud that he is here in Britain

because I hope that makes it a bit more difficult for them

this is where Sweden comes in I suppose...

I heartily endorse the bolded above.....................................

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[bee]

Newsnight Interview of Julian Assange After Bail Dec 16th 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWAXiMIglXY

[bee]

this is LONG......over 3 hours

I have only watched a bit of it so far

it may be of interest to anyone who wants to get into the nitty gritty

of what the US is thinking in terms of possible attempts to prosecute Assange

Lawmakers Discuss Constitutional Issues Raised by WikiLeaks

http://cspan.org/Events/Lawmakers-Discuss-Constitutional-Issues-Raised-by-WikiLeaks/10737418252-1/

Politicians, scholars and journalists have all weighed in on the constitutionality of Assange’s proposed prosecution, and the Justice Department has indicated that it is considering a number of options. Today, the House Judiciary Committee hosted a panel of Constitutional Law and national security scholars to look at the question.

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[the1truebat]

Awwwwwwwwww bummer for you, eh

never mind

here's a shindig to perk you up as you get over the disappointment...

I'm liking your minimalist bad-bat posts........

.

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That's my Bee, always thinking of others. Good tune, though.

Honestly, I've said my piece about Julian Assange, (you might recall). I was just seeing if Ol' Jules had been sainted yet. Anyway, I'll let you get back to worshipping the man-frog.

[the1truebat]

this is LONG......over 3 hours

I have only watched a bit of it so far

it may be of interest to anyone who wants to get into the nitty gritty

of what the US is thinking in terms of possible attempts to prosecute Assange

Lawmakers Discuss Constitutional Issues Raised by WikiLeaks

http://cspan.org/Events/Lawmakers-Discuss-Constitutional-Issues-Raised-by-WikiLeaks/10737418252-1/

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Now, as much as I hate to say it, they're going to have a hard time prosecuting him. They have to prove beyond s shadow of a doubt that he was engaged in espionage activities, I don't think they can, yet. Unfortunately, you can't put people on trial for being a jackass.(If you could, I would have been locked away years ago)

[PETER GORE SEER]

You cannot try a dead man either.

[Belial]

If he dies then it shows 'they' have the fear.

[bee]

I was just seeing if Ol' Jules had been sainted yet. Anyway, I'll let you get back to worshipping the man-frog.

come ON the frog

.

[bee]

You cannot try a dead man either.

If he dies then it shows 'they' have the fear.

In this inteview Daniel Ellsberg the Pentagon Papers Whistleblower... who exposed Vietnam War secrets back in 1971

says he felt it was a worthwhile risk that he himself took....to shorten a war and save lives

and that IF Bradley Manning was the person who leaked the Iraqi helicopter fatal attack on civililians

and 2 Reuters emplyees....a photographer and his driver...

then he has his admiration and thanks

Julian Assange IS risking his life doing all this WikiLeaks stuff

and putting himself up as the figurehead..of the organisation

but I'm sure that, like Daniel Ellsberg, he considers it a whorthwhile risk

Pentagon Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg on Wikileaks Iraq War Docs (Part 1 of 2)

[the1truebat]

come ON the frog

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The second picture is more appropriate, I'll give you that. However, our reasons differ. You probably see that frog as laughing fearlessly in the face of danger. While I see a frog who just realized that maybe he didn't think his plan all the way through, and is now having a malox moment.

As for the first picture, that is just wrong. I mean really, how are you going to pound those tiny nails in anyway?

Edited December 20, 2010 by the1truebat

[Black Red Devil]

In this inteview Daniel Ellsberg the Pentagon Papers Whistleblower... who exposed Vietnam War secrets back in 1971

says he felt it was a worthwhile risk that he himself took....to shorten a war and save lives

and that IF Bradley Manning was the person who leaked the Iraqi helicopter fatal attack on civililians

and 2 Reuters emplyees....a photographer and his driver...

then he has his admiration and thanks

Julian Assange IS risking his life doing all this WikiLeaks stuff

and putting himself up as the figurehead..of the organisation

but I'm sure that, like Daniel Ellsberg, he considers it a whorthwhile risk

Pentagon Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg on Wikileaks Iraq War Docs (Part 1 of 2)

At 5:37 the Statement of the Century: Admiral Mike Mullen Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff speaking of Wikileaks of having blood on its hands, because of the leaked documents putting soldiers at risk in Afghanistan.

Talk about trying to gain the high moral ground battle with the gullible in this world. Disgusting!!

The only people that have blood on their hands are the belligerent, warmongering, deceitful and self centred arrogant hypocrites that are keeping this war going in Afghanistan. People like you Sir.... Admiral Mullen.

Edited December 20, 2010 by BlackRedLittleDevil

[Wickian]

Here's a funny video about the Wikileak fiasco.

[bee]

That video is great Wickian...........I love it

Thanks for that

I especially laughed at the bits with 'Alex Jones' in...priceless

[bee]

At 5:37 the Statement of the Century: Admiral Mike Mullen Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff speaking of Wikileaks of having blood on its hands, because of the leaked documents putting soldiers at risk in Afghanistan.

Talk about trying to gain the high moral ground battle with the gullible in this world. Disgusting!!

The only people that have blood on their hands are the belligerent, warmongering, deceitful and self centred arrogant hypocrites that are keeping this war going in Afghanistan. People like you Sir.... Admiral Mullen.

Well said.........

And on the subject of 'blood on it's hands'

This video of Iraqis and two Reuters employees, a photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen

and his driver, Saeed Chmagh, being fired on by US troops is central to the ramping up of

the whole WikiLeaks Project

Bradley Manning who leaked the footage has been in prison since May and will probably spend

the rest of his life in prison

His LIFE for this footage to become public

I found particularly harrowing the (7:30) bit where Saeed is wounded and trying to crawl along

the pavement....the soldier is like...pick up a weapon....

WHAT!!!

I know that that's so they can kill them...but the last thing on the wounded Saeed mind

would have been picking up a weapon...jeeeesuz...he was just trying to survive

And the firing on the van bit....when it came to pick up the dead, dying, wounded

Was that really necessary for gods sake?

We have a glimpse into the reality of the Iraq War

that began on false pretenses anyway !!!!!

Anyway here it is

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[the1truebat]

Well said.........

And on the subject of 'blood on it's hands'

This video of Iraqis and two Reuters employees, a photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen

and his driver, Saeed Chmagh, being fired on by US troops is central to the ramping up of

the whole WikiLeaks Project

Bradley Manning who leaked the footage has been in prison since May and will probably spend

the rest of his life in prison

His LIFE for this footage to become public

I found particularly harrowing the (7:30) bit where Saeed is wounded and trying to crawl along

the pavement....the soldier is like...pick up a weapon....

WHAT!!!

I know that that's so they can kill them...but the last thing on the wounded Saeed mind

would have been picking up a weapon...jeeeesuz...he was just trying to survive

And the firing on the van bit....when it came to pick up the dead, dying, wounded

Was that really necessary for gods sake?

We have a glimpse into the reality of the Iraq War

that began on false pretenses anyway !!!!!

Anyway here it is

.

It sounds to me like you think his life is worth the price he now pays. I have two questions.

The first is pure speculation. Does he feel like his "sacrifice" was worth it?

My second question is this. Would you do the same, knowing the consequences?

[Black Red Devil]

It sounds to me like you think his life is worth the price he now pays. I have two questions.

The first is pure speculation. Does he feel like his "sacrifice" was worth it?

My second question is this. Would you do the same, knowing the consequences?

Although these questions weren't directed towards me I believe it might be relevant to ask another question first.

Do you expect and believe your Govt to be truthful, trustworthy, reliable and honest towards its citizens?

If the answer is yes then I would assume that in the majority of cases, the answers to both your questions would be NO, because you wouldn't expect to be imprisoned for disclosing inappropriate behaviour from invading soldiers, inexcusablly killing innocent civilians in an inexplicable war.

Alternatively, if the answer was no, then I would assume that in the majority of cases the answers to both your questions would be YES, because you would know and be prepared in anticipation for what you were getting yourself into by challenging these criminals we call Govts and politicians that act and force others to act in this manner.

Edited December 21, 2010 by BlackRedLittleDevil

[the1truebat]

Although these questions weren't directed towards me I believe it might be relevant to ask another question first.

Do you expect and believe your Govt to be truthful, trustworthy, reliable and honest towards its citizens?

If the answer is yes then I would assume that in the majority of cases, the answers to both your questions would be NO, because you wouldn't expect to be imprisoned for disclosing inappropriate behaviour from invading soldiers, inexcusablly killing innocent civilians in an inexplicable war.

Alternatively, if the answer was no, then I would assume that in the majority of cases the answers to both your questions would be YES, because you would know and be prepared in anticipation for what you were getting yourself into by challenging these criminals we call Govts and politicians that act and force others to act in this manner.

I expect governments to conduct their business as they do. They lie, cheat, steal, and keep secrets. Just as any other human being does. The only difference is, they've got the money and power to do it on a much larger scale than we do. I'm going to assume that you're refering to the video for a large part of your response. Until the ENTIRE story comes out, please, think about this. If there was any actual validity to the accusations, why are Manning and Julian Assange still alive. A reporter and his camera man died, that is the only fact that is known. This video isn't the entire video. How do you know it's not a complete fabrication, or if the footage is in fact real, how do you know it hasn't been tampered with? You don't. You're just a person watching a video on the internet. Just like me.

Now, without adding anything, Would YOU do the same, knowing the consequences?

[Black Red Devil]

I expect governments to conduct their business as they do. They lie, cheat, steal, and keep secrets. Just as any other human being does. The only difference is, they've got the money and power to do it on a much larger scale than we do.

No, not as other human beings do. Other human beings go to jail for cheating and stealing. Also, I wasn't aware there was a law for the powerful and a law for the rest. As far as keeping secrets, which, in this case was hiding acts of criminal behaviour, is this an acceptable practice that US citizens condone just because it's their Govt conducting them?

I'm going to assume that you're refering to the video for a large part of your response. Until the ENTIRE story comes out, please, think about this. If there was any actual validity to the accusations, why are Manning and Julian Assange still alive. A reporter and his camera man died, that is the only fact that is known. This video isn't the entire video. How do you know it's not a complete fabrication, or if the footage is in fact real, how do you know it hasn't been tampered with? You don't. You're just a person watching a video on the internet. Just like me.

I'm refering to the video that you were referring to and where you were asking the two questions. Now, it''s funny how the Pentagon has never come out with an official stance on what occurred in the killing of the two Reuters journalists yet, the US Govt was quick to charge Manning over the release of "a fabbricated video" for a possible sentence of up to 52 years. Wow!!

Hey my friend, if you want to await for an official statement from your Govt before making judgement be my guest and please don't hold your breath but I wouldn't be expecting sensational revelations from a bunch of Govt and military officials who have shown an extraordinary capacity to lie to the american public, the UN and the rest of the world about the proof and reasons for the invasion of Iraq v (i.e. inexistent proof of WMD).

Now, without adding anything, Would YOU do the same, knowing the consequences?

I believe I've answered those questions in my previous post.

Edited December 21, 2010 by BlackRedLittleDevil

[bee]

It sounds to me like you think his life is worth the price he now pays. I have two questions.

The first is pure speculation. Does he feel like his "sacrifice" was worth it?

I wouldn't presume to expect anyone to do something that takes away their liberty

that would be entirely up to them

My second question is this. Would you do the same, knowing the consequences?

I don't know

there would be a massive struggle of conscience I suppose and then a decision made

As far as keeping secrets, which, in this case was hiding acts of criminal behaviour, is this an acceptable practice that US citizens condone just because it's their Govt conducting them?

well said

I don't think many people would condone the stuff that happened in the video

but I do think that there can be some understanding of the de-humanizing of soldiers that

have to face some very horrible situations in a totally alien environment

if the incident in the footage is an example of the ethos of the war then soldiers

are going to bond deeply and kinda fall into the general approach/attitude even when they get

caught up in something that is wrong but just do it anyway rather than speak up?

just speculating

this is the Pentagon Papers Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg talking about Bradley Manning

.