BurnSide Posted August 4, 2004 #1 Share Posted August 4, 2004 (edited) Debate Suggestion by Disinterested. Lots of people these days are turning into vegetarians and vegans. The question at hand is, what's the point? Are people who eat meat justified in eating meat, or are vegetarians right in not eating meat? This will be a formal, 1 vs 1 debate. When i get two debaters interested in this topic, a cointoss will decide who debates for what side. This debate will consist of one introduction each, followed by five body posts each and a conclusion each. No flaming, keep it civil. Any questions, PM me and i'll be happy to answer. Edited August 4, 2004 by BurnSide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Selkhet Posted August 4, 2004 #2 Share Posted August 4, 2004 (edited) Ack, okay. I'll debate for vegetarianism, but if no one wants to debate for meat, then yeah, count me out. Edited August 4, 2004 by Wings of Selkhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted August 4, 2004 Author #3 Share Posted August 4, 2004 (edited) Well, i prefer to do a coin toss, but if we have another debater who is quite happy debating for the side of meat-eaters, no problem at all. [edit] still looking for someone to debate for the meat-eaters! Edited August 4, 2004 by BurnSide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cradle of Fish Posted August 12, 2004 #4 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Can I do it? Unless of course this thread died ages ago and I havent noticed. I promise I wont mention the Chupa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted August 12, 2004 Author #5 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Thank you for your interest Cradle of Fish. So, we have the debate set up. Wings of Selkhet will be debating that Vegetarianism is the right, correct path, while Cradle of Fish will be debating that meat-eaters are justified and you simply can't have enough meat. You are each to post an introduction, followed by 5 body posts and a conclusion, and will be judged on style, countering, persuasiveness and relevance to the topic. PM me for questions. Happy debating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Selkhet Posted August 13, 2004 #6 Share Posted August 13, 2004 (edited) I accept wholeheartedly the fact that humans are omnivores. We are meant to eat meat and utilize its nutrients - I have never disputed that. If it were a perfect world, I would not be a vegetarian. However, this world is not perfect. Humans can be atrocious creatures. This debate is not going to be about whether eating meat is natural and good for humans. Of course it is. The reason vegetarianism is the correct path in today's society is primarily because of two reasons - 1) the animals we eat are treated in a horrible and disgusting manner and 2) the animals we eat are fed hormones and chemicals that are unhealthy for humans to ingest. In this debate I do not plan to prove that eating meat is unnatural. I plan to prove that eating meat in today's society is immoral because of the manner in which we raise the animals we use for consumption and unhealthy because of the things they are fed. Edited August 13, 2004 by Wings of Selkhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted August 23, 2004 Author #7 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Looking for an opening statement from Cradle of Fish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted August 30, 2004 #8 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Doesn't look like we're going to get one, anyone else want to take on Selkhet in this debate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shaun_ Posted September 5, 2004 #9 Share Posted September 5, 2004 may i take his place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted September 5, 2004 Author #10 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Shaun you may indeed take the place. You will debating against WINGS on the topic, arguing that meat-eaters are justified by eating meat and it's a good thing. Since Wings has already posted her introductory post, you are to post your introduction. Then Wings will post her first post and so on until you have both posted five body posts, an introduction and a conclusion. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shaun_ Posted September 5, 2004 #11 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Alright, whoo my first debate… I think we can all agree that animals where put on this earth for food consumption. We have been eating animals since the dawn of time, even Jesus with his occasional meal of lamb, and I am sure he found the slaughter and consumption of animals was completely moral. Sure, I agree animals have rights… but not if it stops me from eating my steak. We are at the top of the food chain! We should take advantage of this privilege, eat every animal you can see! What if cows ruled the world and started eating us? I am sure there would not be many cows complaining about our rights, we wouldn’t even have any rights, there mouths would be too full of human meat. Cows would not consider it immoral one bit, so why should we? So eat meat! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings of Selkhet Posted September 6, 2004 #12 Share Posted September 6, 2004 (edited) Once again, I find I am repeating myself. In this debate I do not plan to prove that eating meat is unnatural. Shaun, I do not dispute the fact that we, as omnivorous animals, are meant to eat other animals. Of course we are. But we are not meant to torture them. Only humans breed animals in concrete "farms" specifically for eating them. Other predators - tigers, wolves, etc. - eat when they're hungry. They kill a deer and it's over. They don't raise the deer in an environment where it is cut off from the basic necessities of life. It is possible to eat meat in a humane way. Take certain Native American tribes as an example. When in need of food, they planned a hunt. They would then hunt an animal (i. e. a deer) and kill it and eat it. After consuming it's meat, they would use its skin for clothing or shoes and maybe even its antlers for something. The key is respect. They respected the animal. We don't. I am sure there would not be many cows complaining about our rights, we wouldn’t even have any rights, there mouths would be too full of human meat. Cows would not consider it immoral one bit, so why should we? The key difference is that cows do not have the ability to tell moral from immoral. That's something we humans were granted, whether it be natural or supernatural (Shaun, I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from mentioning religion in this debate - what good will it do when so many people disagree about it? Let's stick to facts we can back up with evidence). Cows would be not be thinking, "Wow, am I doing what's right?" For the sake of argument, let's agree that we really need to eat meat as a source of protein and other nutrients. Let's say that there's no other alternative, but that some of us still have moral qualms about it. What can we do? First, we can start to make sure that the animals we eat are raised in an environment that nurtures their health. Healthy animals will in turn make us healthy. The fact is that the animals we eat are not raised in a safe environment. The best example I can think of is the latest video filmed at a KFC supplier (caution: this footage is rather graphic and not for everyone). Some, when viewing the video or reading about KFC, may say that chickens don't think or chickens don't feel. Firstly, about chicken intelligence. Chickens are not completely mindless. They are social. They communicate with each other. Some even bond with their young. I'm not saying that chickens have the equivalent of human intelligence, but that we shouldn't dismiss them as completely incapable of understanding anything. Here's a good link (while it may seem biased, the actual quotes come from respectable sources) about chicken intelligence. Secondly, chickens, as well as all birds, can feel pain. They may not understand why, but they can feel it. They can see that they are being attacked, and may try to escape. The KFC chickens have nowhere to go. One may also use the argument that other predators, when attacking their prey, harm them and may kick them, throw them, etc. This is true. When attacking for food. The men abusing the KFC chickens were not planning to eat them later that day. They were mindlessly torturing them. Morality is what separates us from other predators. So why are we abandoning it for the "thrill" of kicking a chicken? It's pointless and cruel. "I was almost knocked to the ground by the overpowering smell of feces and ammonia. My eyes burned and so did my lungs, and I could neither see nor breathe….There must have been thirty thousand chickens sitting silently on the floor in front of me. They didn’t move, didn’t cluck. They were almost like statues of chickens, living in nearly total darkness, and they would spend every minute of their six-week lives that way." —Michael Specter, New Yorker, April 14, 2003. In my next post, I will spend more time detailing what really goes on in the environments where our food is raised. Soon I will also explain why the chemicals fed to the animals are making us unhealthy. Edited September 6, 2004 by Wings of Selkhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted September 20, 2004 Author #13 Share Posted September 20, 2004 (edited) Shaun, we're going to need a post from you soon. [edit] NightMoon, i have deleted your post here. Formal debates are for the debaters to post in only, comments on the topic by anyone except the debaters is not allowed. Edited September 20, 2004 by BurnSide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted October 6, 2004 Author #14 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Well, this has been over one month since shauns post, and after i sent a couple reminders we still have no recieved a post, so i'm afraid this debate is over. Wings of Selkhet, you win by default. Thanks to the both of you for taking part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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