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Still Waters

Xmas trees make non-Christians feel excluded

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Still Waters
Christmas trees should be removed from public places to avoid making non-Christians feel “excluded”, scientists have suggested.

Researchers at Simon Fraser University in Canada, found non-Christians feel less self-assured and have fewer positive feelings if a Christmas tree was in the room.

The scientists conducted the study using 77 Christians and 57 non-believers, including Buddhists and Sikhs.

The participants did not know the survey was about Christmas, and were asked to fill in questions about themselves both when a 12-inch Christmas tree was in the room and when it was not.

"Non-celebrators" reported fewer positive feelings and less self-assurance in the Christmas room. Christians were mostly cheered by the tree.

Christians, however, did report feeling more guilt when a tree was in the room, which, claim the researchers, suggests the holidays can be stressful.

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Arpee

In the countries that are mostly Atheist (like Japan), Christmas trees are everywhere and everything is OK. Christmas used to be a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus, actually, it used to be a Pagan holiday, but the fact is, now it's meaning is different for A LOT OF people. A lot of people see it as a way of appreciating people by giving gifts to the ones you love and Santa is talked about instead of Jesus or the Pagan gods so the religious tone isn't there. What's the problem?

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All.

Hardly Christian concepts.

Now, if they suggested removing Christmas trees from public because they're a bloody eyesore and/or a terrible inconvenience I'd be behind that in a shot. Also, Christmas trees in public - not before the end of November please.

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RavenEyes19

I don't know why christmas trees would make nonchristians feel uncomfortable. They didn't even originate from christianity..they're pagan.

People are too easily offended.

I'm an atheist and I love them. My nonchristian family puts one up every year.

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pickletoes

I don't know why christmas trees would make nonchristians feel uncomfortable. They didn't even originate from christianity..they're pagan.

People are too easily offended.

I'm an atheist and I love them. My nonchristian family puts one up every year.

Us too. I don't know why Christians put them up at all. You are correct that they are pagan.

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Andami

Like others have said, people are too offended by things. I don't feel oppressed at all by Christmas trees. :P

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glyndowers heir

Funny thing,

When I worked in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the early 1990's

Around November time the local shops would start selling items described as:

'Indoor Decorative artificial trees'

'Multi coloured, low wattage, mimiature lighting systems'

'Cartoon character, Toy storage bags'

and funnily enough they went off sale about a week before the end of december.

The other funny thing is - the western Expat population were not the best consumer group for these items

Also I got more Xmas cards from my non christian colleagues than family and friends

so why would that be then? :innocent:

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Star of the Sea

Us too. I don't know why Christians put them up at all. You are correct that they are pagan.

Lol! Pickletoes.. are you being serious here???:P

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pickletoes

Lol! Pickletoes.. are you being serious here???:P

Yes of course. You didn't know the Christmas tree is a pagan worship ritual? So are the bunnies and eggs at Easter. I thought everyone knew this kinda stuff.

Happy Winter Solstice btw!

http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

Here's the bit from the bible that forbids Christmas trees specifically.

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (King James Version).

This website above tries to gloss it over because ancient pagans didn't chop them down and bring them into their homes. But they wouldn't have needed to. The world was much more rural back then.

Let me dig up the Pagan ritual.

Here we go

http://100777.com/node/1473

Usually people bring in the Christmas tree right around the Winter Solstice which is today btw and then celebrate that other Pagan ritual of Oestra (Easter) right around the Spring Solstice.

I'll find more on that one for you. :blush:

Edited by pickletoes

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Star of the Sea

Yes of course. You didn't know the Christmas tree is a pagan worship ritual? So are the bunnies and eggs at Easter. I thought everyone knew this kinda stuff.

Happy Winter Solstice btw!

http://www.religious...g/xmas_tree.htm

Lol I'm not referring to the pagan origin - but I'm bemused at why you're surprised that Christians put Christmas trees up! I'm Roman Catholic and you will find at most Catholic Churches a beautiful tree on the altar at Christmas all glittery, baubles, the full works. Psst.... I'll let you into a secret - I still believe in the Easter bunny! You know Pickletoes I think you just like to tease and thow the bait!:lol::st

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pickletoes

The ways of the Witch Sabbats might be an interesting read for you as well.

http://www.mysticfamiliar.com/library/witchcraft/sabbats.htm

Sabbats ~ Samhain, Halloween, Yule, Imbolg, Oestra, Beltane, Litha, Lammas, Madron ~ Sabbats

The Sabbats are major celebrations for a Witch and revolve round the Wheel of the year and the changing seasons. A cycle begins and ends one leading to another. They come from deep in the old Pagan way and most of the Sabbats coincide with other religions such as christianity which came along later and took on a lot of the old Pagan ways. The dates may vary slightly from year to year. hope you find it interesting xxxx

~ Samhain ~

31 Oct (Halloween)

Beginning of the Pagan year when the winter months are on their way. A time when the veil between the living and the dead is lifted and we look for wisdom and guidance. The celebration of the Goddess as Crone or Wise one. Read more about Samhain

~ Yule ~.

21 Dec (Christmas)

The Winter Solstice when the days begin to lengthen and the return of the sun is celebrated. Holly symbolises the Holly king who reigns and mistletoe fruit symbolises the semen of the God. Read more about Yule

~ Imbolg ~

2 Feb

Imbolg means ‘in the belly’ and is when the first buds appear on the trees. Earth is pregnant and the year begins to quicken. The Goddess casts aside the cloak of the Wise One and is ready for the return of the Goddess as Maiden. Read more about Imbolg

~ Oestra ~

21 March (Easter)

The Spring Equinox when time is in balance and day and night is equal. Eggs are symbolic and the first shoots and leaves are growing and the land awakens. Read more about Oestra

~ Beltane ~ .

1 May (May Day)

Beltane is a fire festival and in the old days lines of beacons were lit from hill to hill. Cattle were drove between the fires and people jumped over them to ensure fertility. Beltane signifies the marriage of the God and Goddess where she becomes mother and he returns to reign by her side. Beltane

~ Litha ~

21June (Summer Solstice)

Midsummer and the height of the sun. this is the longest day and shortest night when days begin to shorten and the sun is at the peak of its power and now starts to decline. The Oak King reigns and the Goddess is pregnant with the harvest to come. Litha

~ Lammas ~

1 Aug-

The first of the harvest is brought in and from this sacrificial cakes are usually made into small cakes as a sacrifice to the dying god and a feast to the rising god to ensure fertility in the coming years. This is where the origin of the gingerbread man came from We must make sure that we give enough for what we receive. Lammas

~ Madron ~.

21 Sept (Autumn Equinox)

Day and night are again equal, this is the height of the harvest time and again a time of balance. The crops are harvested for the long cold winter months ahead. It is a time for release of old regrets and arguments and time for forgiveness and to make amends. Read more about Madron

Sabbats ~ Samhain, Halloween, Yule, Imbolg, Oestra, Beltane, Litha, Lammas, Madron ~ Sabbats

Of course if you have another story that explains what exactly a Christmas tree and presents and Santa Claus have to do with Jesus, I'm all open ears. Especially because tax season in ancient Bethlehem would have occurred in the Summertime. Not December. So it certainly has nothing to do with the wise men bringing gifts.

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iamfatfrog

Us too. I don't know why Christians put them up at all. You are correct that they are pagan.

AS a Christian myself I have never put one up and am not Charmed by the majority of the yearly carring on this time of year-the celibration of christ isnt the same as living a faithfull life respectully twords Christ 365 day a year seeing as how Jesus is God,God doesnt want lipservice or sacrifices but honest worship by the life long getting to know him & faith in action,

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pickletoes

Lol I'm not referring to the pagan origin - but I'm bemused at why you're surprised that Christians put Christmas trees up! I'm Roman Catholic and you will find at most Catholic Churches a beautiful tree on the altar at Christmas all glittery, baubles, the full works. Psst.... I'll let you into a secret - I still believe in the Easter bunny! You know Pickletoes I think you just like to tease and thow the bait!:lol::st

Well can't slight you for that one. But bunnies and eggs are symbols of fertility which relate to the Spring Solstice and rebirth of the world after a frozen winter.

But yeah I am surprised considering it is very clearly forbidden by God in the bible. But then again so is bowing down to engraven images and Catholic churches are filled with those. I was a Catholic for many years. Churches are quite beautiful.

But this is part of why Martin Luther quit :geek:

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Star of the Sea

Hi Pickeltoes,

Really do appreciate your links and time you spent on the last post regarding pagan rituals. We could get into a great debate over 'graven images' in Catholic churches - but I guess that would be another thread!

Merry Christmas to you and I mean that sincerely.:innocent:

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little_dreamer

This "bad Christian" has no problem with Christmas trees. I'm looking at one now, actually.

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pickletoes

Hi Pickeltoes,

Really do appreciate your links and time you spent on the last post regarding pagan rituals. We could get into a great debate over 'graven images' in Catholic churches - but I guess that would be another thread!

Merry Christmas to you and I mean that sincerely.:innocent:

You too! Enjoy some carols and egg nog! I still love Christmas cookies.

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Bendy Demon

I don't know why Christmas trees would make non Christians feel uncomfortable. They didn't even originate from Christianity..they're pagan.

People are too easily offended.

I'm an atheist and I love them. My non Christian family puts one up every year.

Same here. I too am an "atheist" and I like Christmas trees. Especially the ones with the tiny LED lights now...all sorts of nice colors, white, icy blue, magenta..and I like turning off all the lights and just enjoying the pretty lights.

Nope..I am not offended by any Christmas displays in public.

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iamfatfrog

This "bad Christian" has no problem with Christmas trees. I'm looking at one now, actually.

there is a word for that condition its call "beguiled",or having been suduced by empty pretty shinny things-ignoring there origins & source. once you remove that item as you have done-its becomes Anything goes all can be exceptable,meaning you accept because youve forgotten where the goal post were place, to say little about not understanding the game plan of the oposition.so have fun with that.

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danielost

Like others have said, people are too offended by things. I don't feel oppressed at all by Christmas trees. :P

but scientists said it so it must be true, i know lets hang all christians from the christmas trees. oh wait i forgot i am a christian.

by the way i dont have the christmas spirit any more because all it is is a reason for adults to get drunk, never mind the kids.

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scepticalbeliever

Why would a Christmas tree make people feel excluded when in fact is not even a Christian holiday. The only thing that would cause me guilt and does is the idea of chopping down a tree instead having a balled one that you can replant or keep in a pot year round.

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Rock-Star

I know plenty of people from all beliefs and cultures (Christians, Jews, Atheists, Wiccans, etc.) that put up Christmas trees. I don't see what is the big deal and have never attached any "religious" meaning to the tree. It's just a decoration and somewhere for "Santa" to put presents!

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BUG101687

tree give us hope . give us strength. give us faith that birth jesus christ bring peace on earth .

lot people feel christmas tree as message of christian holiday. lot time this tree represent tradition.

handed down through generation. this way of america is

by way jesus christ love and die for our sins rejoice .

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rashore

Well Blessed Solstice everyone!!

I like christmas trees, and all the other lovely greenery that comes out at this time of year. All that decor is pretty much what's traditionally available in the winter to decorate with- conifers and other plants that stay green in the winter like holly :) Everything else is pretty much dead. To me, it would be a shame not to dress up our greenery in celebration to light up the shortest and darkest days of our year.

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Fluffybunny

Why would a Christmas tree make people feel excluded when in fact is not even a Christian holiday. The only thing that would cause me guilt and does is the idea of chopping down a tree instead having a balled one that you can replant or keep in a pot year round.

Years ago we bought a baby noble fir...it was in a pot and about 10 inches tall. The first year we put a tiny bit of the shiny metal ribbon stuff on it and put a couple of ornaments on the base(ornaments were to heavy for the little branches). It was kind of Charlie Brown'ish but nice too. Over the years it grew pretty quickly and I kept it trimmed in a good Christmas tree shape. It worked as our christmas tree for 7 years or so, until it got too big to keep in a pot and too heavy to drag around. The last thing we did before moving a few years back was to plant that tree in front of our old house...

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Purplos

You know, I feel guilty and less optimistic about myself when a size 2 woman is in the room with me. Maybe they should be banned. lol

This whole thing is just silly. Nothing should be banned because a few people thought a couple of points less about themselves because it was in the room with them.

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