Study tying vaccine to autism was fraud

[Mac E]

LONDON The first study to link a childhood vaccine to autism was based on doctored information about the children involved, according to a new report on the widely discredited research.

The conclusions of the 1998 paper by Andrew Wakefield and colleagues were renounced by 10 of its 13 authors and later retracted by the medical journal Lancet, where it was published. Still, the suggestion the MMR shot was connected to autism spooked parents worldwide and immunization rates for measles, mumps and rubella have never fully recovered.

Read more...

This is sure to ingnite more debate on the vaccine conspiracy.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Mac E

[supervike]

The only real losers in all this are the poor parents (and their children) that are confused and don't know what to believe.

It's hard to fault a mother her genuinely is concerned about the safety of something to be injected into her child. I understand that the overwhelming evidence is out there, but it's hardly something one has the wherewithall to investigate on their own.

[Obviousman]

Actually, for the informed, there is no debate. Vaccines are safe, with very little risk. The very small risk is vastly outweighed by the benefits, both to the individual and to the community.

[Copasetic]

LONDON — The first study to link a childhood vaccine to autism was based on doctored information about the children involved, according to a new report on the widely discredited research.

The conclusions of the 1998 paper by Andrew Wakefield and colleagues were renounced by 10 of its 13 authors and later retracted by the medical journal Lancet, where it was published. Still, the suggestion the MMR shot was connected to autism spooked parents worldwide and immunization rates for measles, mumps and rubella have never fully recovered.

Read more...

This is sure to ingnite more debate on the vaccine conspiracy.

Here, Here!

Not only should fraud, failure to disclose conflicts of interests (as his "study" attempted to "disprove" the safety of trivalent vaccines, yet said nothing of this own monovalent ones in at the patent office), medical negligence and practicing medicine with a disregard for human life(you can thank Wakefield for the infants once again dying of measles and mumps in the US--Two diseases that were virtually non-existent) be heaped up on this man, but jail time should as well (taring and feathering the quack may not hurt either).

Of course it doesn't much help that people place the lives of their children in the hands of Jenny "I hosted a MTV show, so I must know about medicine" McCarthy. Personally, I think if you let your child die from a preventable disease because of gross incompetence, you should be charged with child endangerment and have your livelihood destroyed through wrongful death charges. Ignorance really does kill people.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Copasetic

[Farmerboy]

My Immunology lecturer hates this guy and pointed out to us that he had no basis in immunology and so had no idea of what he was talking about

[Little Fish]

has anyone read Wakefield's response?

or should we burn him first and ask questions later?

[Copasetic]

has anyone read Wakefield's response?

or should we burn him first and ask questions later?

Which one(s) and from when? There have been many excuses from him over the years, like that one time he claimed he "forgot" to disclose that he stood to make millions of dollars if the trivalent vaccine was pulled from market and his "safe" monovalent one used?

He's spewed all the snake-oil he can. The science has been in since shortly after his publication (over a decade ago). Epic fail on his part and the deeper in the rabbit hole we go, the more incriminating it becomes for him. Its not exactly like his wrongfulness is news. What is, is the fact that BMJ provides evidence that; not only of his wrongness (again old news), but fraud to boot (which has been suspected for quite sometime).

Again, bring on the tar and feathers (or a nice concrete room, approximately 6x8 feet with roommate named Bubba who thinks middle aged fraud doctors have "purdy mouths"!)

Edited January 6, 2011 by Copasetic

[Little Fish]

fraud is a serious allegation. the evidence as I see it is hearsay from Brian Deer whose employer is on the board of Glaxo, the company that makes the MMR vaccine. it looks fishy to me.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Little Fish

[Psukhe]

Actually, for the informed, there is no debate. Vaccines are safe, with very little risk. The very small risk is vastly outweighed by the benefits, both to the individual and to the community.

THIS.

[Copasetic]

fraud is a serious allegation. the evidence as I see it is hearsay from Brian Deer whose employer is on the board of Glaxo, the company that makes the MMR vaccine. it looks fishy to me.

Yes well falsifying medical data to shoe horn people into the study is...dare I say.....Um, fraudulent? Or the list of the many other fraudulent practices carried out in his "study".

Mr 11, an American engineer, looked again at the paper: a five page case series of 11 boys and one girl, aged between 3 and 9 years. Nine children, it said, had diagnoses of “regressive” autism, and all but one were reported with “non-specific colitis.” The “new syndrome” brought these together, linking brain and bowel diseases. His son was the penultimate case.

Running his finger across the paper’s tables, over coffee in London, Mr 11 seemed reassured by his anonymised son’s age and other details. But then he pointed at table 2—headed “neuropsychiatric diagnosis”—and for a second time objected.

“That’s not true.”

Child 11 was among the eight whose parents apparently blamed MMR. The interval between his vaccination and the first “behavioural symptom” was reported as 1 week. This symptom was said to have appeared at age 15 months. But his father, whom I had tracked down, said this was wrong.

“From the information you provided me on our son, who I was shocked to hear had been included in their published study,” he wrote to me, after we met again in California, “the data clearly appeared to be distorted.”

He backed his concerns with medical records, including a Royal Free discharge summary.5 Although the family lived 5000 miles from the hospital, in February 1997 the boy (then aged 5) had been flown to London and admitted for Wakefield’s project, the undisclosed goal of which was to help sue the vaccine’s manufacturers.6

BMJ source

Edited January 7, 2011 by Copasetic

[Drj312]

Actually, for the informed, there is no debate. Vaccines are safe, with very little risk. The very small risk is vastly outweighed by the benefits, both to the individual and to the community.

Ive been saying this for sooooooooooo long.

[Little Fish]

Yes well falsifying medical data to shoe horn people into the study is...dare I say.....Um, fraudulent? Or the list of the many other fraudulent practices carried out in his "study".

BMJ source

well of course fraud is fraud, but is it proven?

as I see it, the only evidence is hearsay. The evidence comes from Brian Deer who says these parents said these things. the source is not the BMJ, the source is Brian Deer. Brian Deer is not an impartial source, this is why I think it is important to hear a response from Wakefield.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Little Fish

[Little Fish]

Ive been saying this for sooooooooooo long.

can you point me to a study comparing vaccinated to non vaccinated with regards to autism?

[Copasetic]

can you point me to a study comparing vaccinated to non vaccinated with regards to autism?

With regards to autism regarding what exactly? Could you clarify what it is you wish to know?

Oh yeah mean ones showing whether there is a link regarding MMR and autism? Like a statistically significant one? Or even a hint of one? Hang on....

Edited January 7, 2011 by Copasetic

[Copasetic]

Afzal, M. A., Ozoemena, L. C., O’Hare, A., Kidger, K. A., Bentley, M. L., & Minor, P. D. (2006). Absence of detectable measles virus genome sequence in blood of autistic children who have had their MMR vaccination during the routine childhood

immunization schedule of UK. Journal of Medical Virology, 78, 623–630.

American Academy of Pediatrics. Children’s Health Topics: Childhood Vaccines, 2008. WWW.aap.org/healthtopics/immunizations.cfm.

Baird, G., Pickles, A., Simonoff, E., Charman, T., Sullivan, P., Chandler, S., et al. (2008). Measles vaccination and antibody response in autism spectrum disorders. Archives of Disease in Childhood, 93, 832–837.

Ball, L., Ball, R., Pratt, R. (2001). An assessment of thimerosal use in pediatric vaccines. Pediatrics, 107(5), 1147–1154.

Bishop DV, Whitehouse AJ, Watt HJ, Line EA. Autism and diagnostic substitution: evidence from a study of adults with a history of developmental disorder. Dev Med Child Neurol. 2008;50(5):341-345.

Burbacher, T., Shen, D., Liberato, N., Grant, K., & Cernichiari, T. (2005). Comparison of blood and brain mercury levels in infant monkeys exposed to methylmercury or vaccines containing thimerosal. Environmental Health Perspectives, 113, 015–1021.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (1999b). Recommendations regarding the use of vaccines that contain thimerosal as a perservative. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 48, 996–998

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Autism Information Center, 2008. WWW.cdc.gov/autism

Department of Health and Human Services. (n.d.). VAERS: Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Retrieved October 19, 2008, from http://vaers.hhs.gov/

D’Souza, Y., Fombonne, E., & Ward, J. (2006). No evidence of persisting measles virus in peripheral blood mononuclear cells from children with autism spectrum disorder. Pediatrics, 118, 1664–1675.

Dales, L., Hammer, S. J., & Smith, N. J. (2001). Time trends in autism and in MMR immunization coverage in California. Journal of the American Medical Association, 285, 1183–1185.

Fombonne, E., & Chakrabarti, S. (2001). No evidence for a new variant of measles-mumps-rubella-induced autism. Pediatrics,

108, E58

Fombonne, E., Zakarian, R., Bennett, A., Meng, L., & McLean-Heywood, D. (2006). Pervasive developmental disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and links with immunizations. Pediatrics, 118, e139–e150

Honda, H., Shimizu, Y., & Rutter, M. (2005). No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: A total population study. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 46, 572–579.

Hornig, M., Briese, T., Buie, T., Bauman, M. L., Lauwers, G., Siemetzki, U., et al. (2008). Lack of association between measles virus vaccine and autism with enteropathy: A case-control study. PloS ONE., 3, e3140.

Immunization Safety Review Committee, Board on Health Promotion and Disease Prevention, & Institute of Medicine. (2001).

Immunization safety review: Measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and autism. Washington, DC: National Academy Press

Kaye, J. A., Mar Melero-Montes, M., & Jick, H. (2001). Mumps, measles, and rubella vaccine and the incidence of autism

recorded by general practitioners: A time trend analysis. British Medical Journal, 322, 460–463.

Madsen, K. M., Hviid, A., Vestergaard, M., Schendel, D., Wohlfahrt, J., Thorsen, P., et al. (2002). A population-based study of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination and autism. New England Journal of Medicine, 347, 1477–1482.

Newschaffer, C. J., Croen, L. A., Daniels, J., Giarelli, E., Grether, J. K., Levy, S. E., et al. (2007). The epidemiology of autism spectrum disorders. Annual Review of Public Health, 28, 235–258.

Parker SK, Schwartz B, Todd J, Pickering LK. Thimerosal-containing vaccines and a spectrum disorder: a critical review of published original data. Pediatrics. 2004;114(3):793-804.

Pichichero M, Cernichiari E, Lopreiato J, Treanor J. Mercury concentrations and metabolism in infants receiving vaccines containing thimerosal: a descriptive study. Lancet. 2002;360(9347):1737-1741.

Richler, J., Luyster, R., Risi, S., Hsu, W. L., Dawson, G., Bernier, R., et al. (2006). Is there a “regressive phenotype” of Autism Spectrum Disorder associated with the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine? A CPEA Study. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, 36, 299–316.

Rutter M. Incidence of autism spectrum disorders: Changes over time and their meaning. Acta Paediatrica. 2005;94(1):2-15.

Shattuck PT, Grosse SD. Issues related to the diagnosis and treatment of autism spectrum disorders. Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2007;13(2):129-135.

Smeeth, L., Cook, C., Fombonne, E., Heavey, L., Rodrigues, L. C., Smith, P. G., & Hall, A. J. (2004). MMR vaccination and pervasive developmental disorders: A case-control study. Lancet, 364, 963–969.

Stehr-Green, P., Tull, P., Stellfeld, M., Mortenson, P., & Simpson, D. (2003). Autism and thimerosal-containing vaccines lack of consistent evidence for an association. American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 25, 101–106.

Thompson, W., Price, C., Goodson, B., Shay, D., Benson, P., Hinrichsen, V., et al. (2007). Early thimerosal exposure and neuropsychological outcomes at 7 to 10 years. New England Journal of Medicine, 357, 1281–1292

Verstraeten, T., Davis, R., DeStefano, F., Lieu, T., Rhodes, P., Black, S., et al. (2003). Safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines: A twophased study of computerized health maintenance organizations databases. Pediatrics, 112, 1039–1048.

Wilson K, Mills E, Ross C, McGowan J, Jadad A. Association of autism spectrum disorder and the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine. Arch Pediar Adolesc Med. 2003;157(7):628-634.

Theres a few to start you off.

[Little Fish]

is there a medical study comparing autism rates in vaccinated to autism rates in unvaccinated?

[Little Fish]

With regards to autism regarding what exactly? Could you clarify what it is you wish to know?

Oh yeah mean ones showing whether there is a link regarding MMR and autism? Like a statistically significant one? Or even a hint of one? Hang on....

which one compares autism rates in unvaccinated to autism rates in vaccinated?

I think you'll find that none of them do.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Little Fish

[Copasetic]

I'm sorry, maybe you meant meta-analysis and reviews since those constitute the highest form of evidence based science and medicine?

Got some of those too for you;

1. Artigas-Pallares J. Autism and vaccinations: the end?]. Rev Neurol. 2010;50 Suppl 3:S91-9.

2. Bedford H. Measles, mumps and rubella--safety of the combined vaccine. Nurs Times. 2004;100(9):74-75.

3. Chez MG, Chin K, Hung PC. Immunizations, immunology, and autism. Semin Pediatr Neurol. 2004;11(3):214-217.

4. Demicheli V, Jefferson T, Rivetti A, Price D. Vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella in children. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2005;(4)(4):CD004407.

5. DeStefano F. Vaccines and autism: evidence does not support a causal association. Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007;82(6):756-759.

6. DeStefano F. MMR vaccine and autism: a review of the evidence for a causal association. Mol Psychiatry. 2002;7 Suppl 2:S51-2.

7. DeStefano F, Chen RT. Autism and measles-mumps-rubella vaccination: controversy laid to rest? CNS Drugs. 2001;15(11):831-837.

8. DeStefano F, Thompson WW. MMR vaccine and autism: an update of the scientific evidence. Expert Rev Vaccines. 2004;3(1):19-22.

9. DeStefano F, Thompson WW. MMR vaccination and autism: is there a link? Expert Opin Drug Saf. 2002;1(2):115-120.

10. Elliman D, Bedford H. MMR: where are we now? Arch Dis Child. 2007;92(12):1055-1057.

11. Elliman DA, Bedford HE. Measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, autism and inflammatory bowel disease: advising concerned parents. Paediatr Drugs. 2002;4(10):631-635.

12. Fitzpatrick M. MMR: risk, choice, chance. Br Med Bull. 2004;69:143-153.

13. Jefferson T, Price D, Demicheli V, Bianco E, European Research Program for Improved Vaccine Safety Surveillance (EUSAFEVAC) Project. Unintended events following immunization with MMR: a systematic review. Vaccine. 2003;21(25-26):3954-3960.

14. Kemp ML, Hart MB. MMR vaccine and autism: is there a link? JAAPA. 2010;23(6):48, 50.

15. Klein KC, Diehl EB. Relationship between MMR vaccine and autism. Ann Pharmacother. 2004;38(7-8):1297-1300.

16. Madsen KM, Vestergaard M. MMR vaccination and autism : what is the evidence for a causal association? Drug Saf. 2004;27(12):831-840.

17. Miller E. Measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and the development of autism. Semin Pediatr Infect Dis. 2003;14(3):199-206.

18. Miller E. MMR vaccine: review of benefits and risks. J Infect. 2002;44(1):1-6.

19. Offit PA, Coffin SE. Communicating science to the public: MMR vaccine and autism. Vaccine. 2003;22(1):1-6.

20. Purssell E. Exploring the evidence surrounding the debate on MMR and autism. Br J Nurs. 2004;13(14):834-838.

21. Rumke HC, Visser HK. Childhood vaccinations anno 2004. II. The real and presumed side effects of vaccination]. Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2004;148(8):364-371.

22. Rutter M. Incidence of autism spectrum disorders: changes over time and their meaning. Acta Paediatr. 2005;94(1):2-15.

23. Strauss B, Bigham M. Does measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination cause inflammatory bowel disease and autism? Can Commun Dis Rep. 2001;27(8):65-72.

24. Taylor B. Vaccines and the changing epidemiology of autism. Child Care Health Dev. 2006;32(5):511-519.

25. Wilson K, Mills E, Ross C, McGowan J, Jadad A. Association of autistic spectrum disorder and the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: a systematic review of current epidemiological evidence. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2003;157(7):628-634.

26. Wing L, Potter D. The epidemiology of autistic spectrum disorders: is the prevalence rising? Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2002;8(3):151-161.

[Copasetic]

which one compares autism rates in unvaccinated to autism rates in vaccinated?

I think you'll find that none of them do.

Sorry this is why you people are so frustrating, because you actually have no idea what you are talking about. Do you realize this? Or are you clueless?

Just what the hell do you think a non-statistically significant risk means, as in no change over control groups? And what the hell do you think these control groups are?

I mean honestly, basic "control vs non-control" etc should have been covered in your high school science curriculum....

Spend some money, read the articles. Education will liberate you....(or at least save your kids)

[Copasetic]

well of course fraud is fraud, but is it proven?

as I see it, the only evidence is hearsay. The evidence comes from Brian Deer who says these parents said these things. the source is not the BMJ, the source is Brian Deer. Brian Deer is not an impartial source, this is why I think it is important to hear a response from Wakefield.

Umm, no. You do realize that the medical records of the children were made public because of Wakefieldd delicensing trail? And I'm sure you realized also that editors and scientists at BMJ also reviewed these medical records and found in accordance with the article written by Deer, which is why (considering the UK's libel laws) they gave the go ahead to publish. You realized all that right?

[+DieChecker]

I agree with Copasetic. The one paper that started this whole mess was later tossed out. And the dozens of studies done since then have turned up with a negative correlation between autism and vaccines. The only thing both have in common is that autism shows bigger symptoms around the time vaccines are normally given to kids.

Even Jenny McCarthy, who crusaded to get the Hollywood elite behing this hoax, has now confessed the data shows no such connection exists.

[regeneratia]

I don't take a stance this, but you really, really rock!!

Afzal, M. A., Ozoemena, L. C., O’Hare, A., Kidger, K. A., Bentley, M. L., & Minor, P. D. (2006). Absence of detectable measles virus genome sequence in blood of autistic children who have had their MMR vaccination during the routine childhood

immunization schedule of UK. Journal of Medical Virology, 78, 623–630.

American Academy of Pediatrics. Children’s Health Topics: Childhood Vaccines, 2008. WWW.aap.org/healthtopics/immunizations.cfm.

Baird, G., Pickles, A., Simonoff, E., Charman, T., Sullivan, P., Chandler, S., et al. (2008). Measles vaccination and antibody response in autism spectrum disorders. Archives of Disease in Childhood, 93, 832–837.

Ball, L., Ball, R., Pratt, R. (2001). An assessment of thimerosal use in pediatric vaccines. Pediatrics, 107(5), 1147–1154.

Bishop DV, Whitehouse AJ, Watt HJ, Line EA. Autism and diagnostic substitution: evidence from a study of adults with a history of developmental disorder. Dev Med Child Neurol. 2008;50(5):341-345.

Burbacher, T., Shen, D., Liberato, N., Grant, K., & Cernichiari, T. (2005). Comparison of blood and brain mercury levels in infant monkeys exposed to methylmercury or vaccines containing thimerosal. Environmental Health Perspectives, 113, 015–1021.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (1999b). Recommendations regarding the use of vaccines that contain thimerosal as a perservative. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 48, 996–998

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Autism Information Center, 2008. WWW.cdc.gov/autism

Department of Health and Human Services. (n.d.). VAERS: Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Retrieved October 19, 2008, from http://vaers.hhs.gov/

D’Souza, Y., Fombonne, E., & Ward, J. (2006). No evidence of persisting measles virus in peripheral blood mononuclear cells from children with autism spectrum disorder. Pediatrics, 118, 1664–1675.

Dales, L., Hammer, S. J., & Smith, N. J. (2001). Time trends in autism and in MMR immunization coverage in California. Journal of the American Medical Association, 285, 1183–1185.

Fombonne, E., & Chakrabarti, S. (2001). No evidence for a new variant of measles-mumps-rubella-induced autism. Pediatrics,

108, E58

Fombonne, E., Zakarian, R., Bennett, A., Meng, L., & McLean-Heywood, D. (2006). Pervasive developmental disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and links with immunizations. Pediatrics, 118, e139–e150

Honda, H., Shimizu, Y., & Rutter, M. (2005). No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: A total population study. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 46, 572–579.

Hornig, M., Briese, T., Buie, T., Bauman, M. L., Lauwers, G., Siemetzki, U., et al. (2008). Lack of association between measles virus vaccine and autism with enteropathy: A case-control study. PloS ONE., 3, e3140.

Immunization Safety Review Committee, Board on Health Promotion and Disease Prevention, & Institute of Medicine. (2001).

Immunization safety review: Measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and autism. Washington, DC: National Academy Press

Kaye, J. A., Mar Melero-Montes, M., & Jick, H. (2001). Mumps, measles, and rubella vaccine and the incidence of autism

recorded by general practitioners: A time trend analysis. British Medical Journal, 322, 460–463.

Madsen, K. M., Hviid, A., Vestergaard, M., Schendel, D., Wohlfahrt, J., Thorsen, P., et al. (2002). A population-based study of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination and autism. New England Journal of Medicine, 347, 1477–1482.

Newschaffer, C. J., Croen, L. A., Daniels, J., Giarelli, E., Grether, J. K., Levy, S. E., et al. (2007). The epidemiology of autism spectrum disorders. Annual Review of Public Health, 28, 235–258.

Parker SK, Schwartz B, Todd J, Pickering LK. Thimerosal-containing vaccines and a spectrum disorder: a critical review of published original data. Pediatrics. 2004;114(3):793-804.

Pichichero M, Cernichiari E, Lopreiato J, Treanor J. Mercury concentrations and metabolism in infants receiving vaccines containing thimerosal: a descriptive study. Lancet. 2002;360(9347):1737-1741.

Richler, J., Luyster, R., Risi, S., Hsu, W. L., Dawson, G., Bernier, R., et al. (2006). Is there a “regressive phenotype” of Autism Spectrum Disorder associated with the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine? A CPEA Study. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, 36, 299–316.

Rutter M. Incidence of autism spectrum disorders: Changes over time and their meaning. Acta Paediatrica. 2005;94(1):2-15.

Shattuck PT, Grosse SD. Issues related to the diagnosis and treatment of autism spectrum disorders. Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev. 2007;13(2):129-135.

Smeeth, L., Cook, C., Fombonne, E., Heavey, L., Rodrigues, L. C., Smith, P. G., & Hall, A. J. (2004). MMR vaccination and pervasive developmental disorders: A case-control study. Lancet, 364, 963–969.

Stehr-Green, P., Tull, P., Stellfeld, M., Mortenson, P., & Simpson, D. (2003). Autism and thimerosal-containing vaccines lack of consistent evidence for an association. American Journal of Preventive Medicine, 25, 101–106.

Thompson, W., Price, C., Goodson, B., Shay, D., Benson, P., Hinrichsen, V., et al. (2007). Early thimerosal exposure and neuropsychological outcomes at 7 to 10 years. New England Journal of Medicine, 357, 1281–1292

Verstraeten, T., Davis, R., DeStefano, F., Lieu, T., Rhodes, P., Black, S., et al. (2003). Safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines: A twophased study of computerized health maintenance organizations databases. Pediatrics, 112, 1039–1048.

Wilson K, Mills E, Ross C, McGowan J, Jadad A. Association of autism spectrum disorder and the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine. Arch Pediar Adolesc Med. 2003;157(7):628-634.

Theres a few to start you off.

[Little Fish]

Sorry this is why you people are so frustrating, because you actually have no idea what you are talking about. Do you realize this? Or are you clueless?

OK I understand the frustration, so can you show a study that compares autism rates in vaccinated to rates in unvaccinated. if you know what you are talking about and you are cluefull, then it should be fairly easy thing to show it.

Just what the hell do you think a non-statistically significant risk means, as in no change over control groups? And what the hell do you think these control groups are?

I mean honestly, basic "control vs non-control" etc should have been covered in your high school science curriculum....

You are assuming that these studies used a control group of unvaccinated kids. if you know they did then show a single study that did. a list if studies is not helpful if you have not read them and understand what they mean.

Spend some money, read the articles. Education will liberate you....(or at least save your kids)

I have. I can't find a study comparing vaccinated with unvaccinated, and it seems to be impossible to ask others to provide one without encountering hate.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Little Fish

[Little Fish]

Umm, no. You do realize that the medical records of the children were made public because of Wakefieldd delicensing trail?

Children's health records made public? that seems unlikely, can you show that to be true.

the BMJ article you linked was an article written by Brian Deer.

And I'm sure you realized also that editors and scientists at BMJ also reviewed these medical records and found in accordance with the article written by Deer, which is why (considering the UK's libel laws) they gave the go ahead to publish. You realized all that right?

The editorial does not say that. The evidence they cite comes from Brian Deer, and it seems to be hearsay from interviews between some of the parents and Brian Deer. it does not say the evidence comes from BMJ scientists. here is the actual editorial

http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452.full?sid=805d188f-45f7-488d-9d51-3b8277853ebb#ref-14

If I'm wrong here, then can you show me?

Since the source is Brian Deer, I doubt the BMJ would fall foul of libel laws.

[Copasetic]

Children's health records made public? that seems unlikely, can you show that to be true.

the BMJ article you linked was an article written by Brian Deer.

The editorial does not say that. The evidence they cite comes from Brian Deer, and it seems to be hearsay from interviews between some of the parents and Brian Deer. it does not say the evidence comes from BMJ scientists. here is the actual editorial

http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452.full?sid=805d188f-45f7-488d-9d51-3b8277853ebb#ref-14

If I'm wrong here, then can you show me?

Since the source is Brian Deer, I doubt the BMJ would fall foul of libel laws.

No, the evidence is cited from the GMC's investigation. Which includes "deidentified" medical records from the children involved in the study and verified by doctors and scientists at the BMJ. Really, with the UKs libel laws you think they would let Deer just up and published unevidenced opinion? I don't know if you're uninformed or being dishonest (a lesson learned from Wakefield maybe?), but you've only linked one of the BMJs comments on the paper;

Thanks to the recent publication of the GMC’s six million word transcript, the BMJ was able to check Deer’s findings and confirm extensive falsification. As my colleagues and I write in an editorial this week, in no single case can the medical records be fully reconciled with what was published. This means that the MMR scare was based not on bad science but on a deliberate fraud (doi:10.1136/bmj.c7452).

http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d22.full?sid=ce452489-05e2-4492-b681-0a656c0198d7

Really, the "anti-vaccine" crowd is starting to take this into the realm that would bring a tear to the eye of moon conspiracy theorists.....

Edited January 7, 2011 by Copasetic