Dradan Posted January 6, 2011 #1 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I saw this video and i was a bit shocked/sceptical. Apparently, some people suggests that the Egyptians build their famous pyramids through paranormal activity ( aliens ). Is this the pure nuts or is there actually something about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted January 6, 2011 #2 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why so much interest in the pyramids? Though evidently well constructed, they're still just a bunch of rocks piled on top of each other. If the ancient Egyptians had instead constructed something like a midieval cathedral I'd be more impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belial Posted January 6, 2011 #3 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Basic hand tools and hard work, over seen by very forward thinking clever people, no alien intervention if thats your angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted January 6, 2011 #4 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) There are already several threads in this same section about the pyramids... The basic answer is... yeah, this is pure baloney mate. The Egyptians built the pyramids, and the tools they used were what you'd expect from the time period. Um... didn't know that was blocked. Lemmee change it. Edited January 6, 2011 by ShadowSot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dradan Posted January 6, 2011 Author #5 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Basic hand tools and hard work, over seen by very forward thinking clever people, no alien intervention if thats your angle? It is, i know that the pyramids were build by strong egyptian labour and basic worktools. However, this whole alien theory is completely new to me and seems rather odd/strange. i have seen it being suggested a couple of times now, so i just wanted to make sure that it was already debunked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dradan Posted January 6, 2011 Author #6 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) There are already several threads in this same section about the pyramids... The basic answer is... yeah, this is pure baloney mate. The Egyptians built the pyramids, and the tools they used were what you'd expect from the time period. Um... didn't know that was blocked. Lemmee change it. Ok thanks, that's pretty much what i wanted to hear. I was a bit sceptical at first, and the idea of aliens building the pyramids made me laugh. Edited January 6, 2011 by Ultimatium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted January 6, 2011 #7 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Unlocking The Great Pyramid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxVv09tGbaQ&playnext=1&list=PL4237900F3C608669&index=37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We7GxPDUSWs&feature=related Unlocking The Great Pyramid ¦ 480p [3/4] Unlocking The Great Pyramid ¦ 480p [4/4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belial Posted January 6, 2011 #8 Share Posted January 6, 2011 No one really knows for sure, but the common sense approach would be that of hard work and clever humans of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted January 6, 2011 #9 Share Posted January 6, 2011 A little less short thrift posting, I'd recommend reading through some of the existing threads, paying attention to Kmt_Sesh' posts on Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted January 6, 2011 #10 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I saw this video and i was a bit shocked/sceptical. Apparently, some people suggests that the Egyptians build their famous pyramids through paranormal activity ( aliens ). Is this the pure nuts or is there actually something about it? I'm not impressed by the video but I'm beginning to believe that aliens make more sense and are better evidenced than ramps. Neither of these theories is well supported but there's little doubt that ramps are a virtual impossibility. Even if they were possible it would be impossible to hide evidence for them. This leaves a void into which many people have tried to project all sorts of wonderful, strange, and exotic ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted January 6, 2011 #11 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Straight up ignore Cladking, plenty of evidence has been presented for ramps (Including... ramps.) but he refuses to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted January 6, 2011 #12 Share Posted January 6, 2011 ... plenty of evidence has been presented for ramps (Including... ramps.) but he refuses to accept it. There is no evidence of any sort whatsoever that a ramp was used to lift a single stone on any of the great pyramids. I can show evidence all day long that such ramps were not used yet no one has ever shown any evidence that they were. Their attempts are dis- ingenuous and involve pictures from hundreds or even thousands of years after the great pyramids were built and flimsy ramps on the ground in betyween pyramids which could not have been used to lift stone. They simply choose to ignore the evidence against ramps and repeat their mantra that "it mustta been ramps". I would suggest people try tune out any time that someone tells you it must have been built by anything at all because axe grindings will fol- low. Egyptologists have invented a million ways to say "it mustta been ramps" but my favorite is "we don't know exactly what ramp system was used". The reason for this is that ramps weren't used. Egyptologists don't care, and They have no plans to go look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted January 6, 2011 #13 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Jean-Pierre Houdin is making a pretty good case but there is no real proof. The case for the seemingly oversizeed Grand Gallery makes sense with his theory though, and he points to several markings and constructional feats that might support his theory for the transport of the granite block to the kings chamber. Here are some of all the theories presented over the years (alien intervention excluded) >> http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/ramp-models.html Regardless any of these theories, they hardly match up to the time-plan - one stone set in place every other minute in a constant pace for some 20 years. Not much room for errors, accidents or hiccups. A gigantic error-free assembly line with enormous stones and hectic tempo??... seems improbable. As long it remains a mystery it will keep the interest alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted January 6, 2011 #14 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Regardless any of these theories, they hardly match up to the time-plan - one stone set in place every other minute in a constant pace for some 20 years. Not much room for errors, accidents or hiccups. A gigantic error-free assembly line with enormous stones and hectic tempo??... seems improbable. The person who calculated that didn't put into his calculations a couple of things )and more I've probably forgotten.), chiefly there are pockets of backfill and empty space in the pyramids... and we don't know for sure how much there is. Khufu's pyramid is a also built on top of a limestone rise, meaning less blocks were needed. The blocks also got smaller as you go up, requiring less effort. The stoes were loosely stacked, the real detail went into the exterior of the pyramid. To, we know they had several gangs moving stones, and much of the work force of Egypt available during the months the Nile flooded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted January 6, 2011 #15 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The person who calculated that didn't put into his calculations a couple of things )and more I've probably forgotten.), chiefly there are pockets of backfill and empty space in the pyramids... and we don't know for sure how much there is. Khufu's pyramid is a also built on top of a limestone rise, meaning less blocks were needed. The blocks also got smaller as you go up, requiring less effort. The stoes were loosely stacked, the real detail went into the exterior of the pyramid. To, we know they had several gangs moving stones, and much of the work force of Egypt available during the months the Nile flooded. The pyramid is not hollow no matter how many times ramp theorists say it is. It has an average external density of about 2.65 compared to the density of limestone which is 2.70 which makes it more than 98% solid. Backfill is no easier to lift than stones and is actually harder so is entirely irrelevent. There is no evidence whatsoever of any sort of hill under G1 larger than about 25' at its center. The course thickness of G1 does not greatly change at altitude and this is irrelevent as well since even if they had used smaller stones then they'd have just needed to haul more of them. There is nothing about Orthodox theory which is logical. The facts are bent and manipulated to make ramps look plausible despite the lack of ev- idence for them. There were no ramp builders buried anywhere in Egypt and no evidence that there were ramps or ramp builders. The amount of manpower available was irrelevent since a limited number of men can fit on any sort of ramp system at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted January 6, 2011 #16 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The pyramid is not hollow no matter how many times ramp theorists say it is. It has an average external density of about 2.65 compared to the density of limestone which is 2.70 which makes it more than 98% solid. Backfill is no easier to lift than stones and is actually harder so is entirely irrelevent. There is no evidence whatsoever of any sort of hill under G1 larger than about 25' at its center. The course thickness of G1 does not greatly change at altitude and this is irrelevent as well since even if they had used smaller stones then they'd have just needed to haul more of them. There is nothing about Orthodox theory which is logical. The facts are bent and manipulated to make ramps look plausible despite the lack of ev- idence for them. There were no ramp builders buried anywhere in Egypt and no evidence that there were ramps or ramp builders. The amount of manpower available was irrelevent since a limited number of men can fit on any sort of ramp system at all. Ok, how would you build a prymid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted January 6, 2011 #17 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Ok, how would you build a prymid? I've invented or discovered several possible methods which are consistent with logic and the actual evidence. The question isn't how I'd do but but how the ancients actually did do it. The first thing that's a safe bet is they got rid of all the pencil whippers because they needed something that worked rather than someone who could de- vise inefficient and impossible ideas. This means forget ideology and relig- ion as a means to build this. Burying a God does not provide the builders with divine strenght. The method has to be extremely and hugely efficient so anything that involves hauling the body weight of a man to 120' 25,000,000 times is out from the get go. No ramps. Anyone who suggested ramps would have been laughed off the pyramid. Ideally a method involves a motive force and thetre are several possibilities here and evidence they used them but we'll not consider thios now; merely the evidence for the route the stones took. There are vertical lines right up the sides of all the great pyramids. These undoubtedly required a long time to form since the pyramid grew slowly and these span many layers of them. This suggests that by some means stones moved direcly up the side. This is consistent with what the builders said that they used ladders to build them. How the stones moved up is not as obvious. It's safe to assume they were not pushed since they are massive. It's safe to assume they either moved up quickly, close together, or many at a time sionce the huge stone size suggests the lifting method was very robust and the size of the pyramid dictates a high delivery rate. There are numerous ways that tones can move up the side with or without a mo- tive force. The most obvious and one Orthodoxy should like is a team of men on the pyramid top pulling on ropes to get them up the side. But they're married to ramps and can't even consider an alternative. They always regress to "it mustta been ramps". They also could have built a stone trough out of tura limestone which went straight up the side. This trough would be designed to pry stones higher with hundreds of men working each trough with large pry bars. This would essentially be a man pow- ered stone conveyor. They could have strung out ropes to harness natural processes like sails in the boat pits which could provide huge lift. The Nile flowed right by and could provide large amounts of lift over great distance. They could have used teams of men and animals pulling from the opposite side. There are a million things they might have done consistent with logic and the evi- dence but ramps are not included in this. Ramps would obscure the lines needed to build the pyramid true. They would have left a mark on the pyramid, in the cenmetery and in history. There is no mark. What there is is evidence of water. There was water here and it may have been used for little more than filling the boat pits for massive sails or leveling the pyramid base but there is ater here that could have beebn used in cliff face counterweights to move stone. This is consistent with the fact that there is a canal from a water collecting device surrounding the pyramid to the cliff face which bears evidence of water erosion. So they not onlyhad water but actually used it. Find out the source of this water and I'm certain you'll know how they built the pyramid. Nehebkau was the water cycle who manifested as rain according to the Pyramid Texts. But Nehebkau could not have caused water to arise to Giza. We know there are caves under here and we know the powers that be are ignoring them. Any process that took water to the top of the plateau almost certainly involves these caves and Giza meant "Mouth of Caves" to the ancients. There are clues to how the pyramids were built under Giza and the authorities are burying their heads in the sand. The answers are everywhere but it will require some- one to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted January 7, 2011 #18 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've invented or discovered several possible methods which are consistent with logic and the actual evidence. The question isn't how I'd do but but how the ancients actually did do it. The first thing that's a safe bet is they got rid of all the pencil whippers because they needed something that worked rather than someone who could de- vise inefficient and impossible ideas. This means forget ideology and relig- ion as a means to build this. Burying a God does not provide the builders with divine strenght. The method has to be extremely and hugely efficient so anything that involves hauling the body weight of a man to 120' 25,000,000 times is out from the get go. No ramps. Anyone who suggested ramps would have been laughed off the pyramid. Ideally a method involves a motive force and thetre are several possibilities here and evidence they used them but we'll not consider thios now; merely the evidence for the route the stones took. There are vertical lines right up the sides of all the great pyramids. These undoubtedly required a long time to form since the pyramid grew slowly and these span many layers of them. This suggests that by some means stones moved direcly up the side. This is consistent with what the builders said that they used ladders to build them. How the stones moved up is not as obvious. It's safe to assume they were not pushed since they are massive. It's safe to assume they either moved up quickly, close together, or many at a time sionce the huge stone size suggests the lifting method was very robust and the size of the pyramid dictates a high delivery rate. There are numerous ways that tones can move up the side with or without a mo- tive force. The most obvious and one Orthodoxy should like is a team of men on the pyramid top pulling on ropes to get them up the side. But they're married to ramps and can't even consider an alternative. They always regress to "it mustta been ramps". They also could have built a stone trough out of tura limestone which went straight up the side. This trough would be designed to pry stones higher with hundreds of men working each trough with large pry bars. This would essentially be a man pow- ered stone conveyor. They could have strung out ropes to harness natural processes like sails in the boat pits which could provide huge lift. The Nile flowed right by and could provide large amounts of lift over great distance. They could have used teams of men and animals pulling from the opposite side. There are a million things they might have done consistent with logic and the evi- dence but ramps are not included in this. Ramps would obscure the lines needed to build the pyramid true. They would have left a mark on the pyramid, in the cenmetery and in history. There is no mark. What there is is evidence of water. There was water here and it may have been used for little more than filling the boat pits for massive sails or leveling the pyramid base but there is ater here that could have beebn used in cliff face counterweights to move stone. This is consistent with the fact that there is a canal from a water collecting device surrounding the pyramid to the cliff face which bears evidence of water erosion. So they not onlyhad water but actually used it. Find out the source of this water and I'm certain you'll know how they built the pyramid. Nehebkau was the water cycle who manifested as rain according to the Pyramid Texts. But Nehebkau could not have caused water to arise to Giza. We know there are caves under here and we know the powers that be are ignoring them. Any process that took water to the top of the plateau almost certainly involves these caves and Giza meant "Mouth of Caves" to the ancients. There are clues to how the pyramids were built under Giza and the authorities are burying their heads in the sand. The answers are everywhere but it will require some- one to look. I think you got confused, how would you build a prymid? what materials, tools etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbangwollap Posted January 7, 2011 #19 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I've invented or discovered several possible methods which are consistent with logic and the actual evidence. The question isn't how I'd do but but how the ancients actually did do it. The first thing that's a safe bet is they got rid of all the pencil whippers because they needed something that worked rather than someone who could de- vise inefficient and impossible ideas. This means forget ideology and relig- ion as a means to build this. Burying a God does not provide the builders with divine strenght. The method has to be extremely and hugely efficient so anything that involves hauling the body weight of a man to 120' 25,000,000 times is out from the get go. No ramps. Anyone who suggested ramps would have been laughed off the pyramid. Ideally a method involves a motive force and thetre are several possibilities here and evidence they used them but we'll not consider thios now; merely the evidence for the route the stones took. There are vertical lines right up the sides of all the great pyramids. These undoubtedly required a long time to form since the pyramid grew slowly and these span many layers of them. This suggests that by some means stones moved direcly up the side. This is consistent with what the builders said that they used ladders to build them. How the stones moved up is not as obvious. It's safe to assume they were not pushed since they are massive. It's safe to assume they either moved up quickly, close together, or many at a time sionce the huge stone size suggests the lifting method was very robust and the size of the pyramid dictates a high delivery rate. There are numerous ways that tones can move up the side with or without a mo- tive force. The most obvious and one Orthodoxy should like is a team of men on the pyramid top pulling on ropes to get them up the side. But they're married to ramps and can't even consider an alternative. They always regress to "it mustta been ramps". They also could have built a stone trough out of tura limestone which went straight up the side. This trough would be designed to pry stones higher with hundreds of men working each trough with large pry bars. This would essentially be a man pow- ered stone conveyor. They could have strung out ropes to harness natural processes like sails in the boat pits which could provide huge lift. The Nile flowed right by and could provide large amounts of lift over great distance. They could have used teams of men and animals pulling from the opposite side. There are a million things they might have done consistent with logic and the evi- dence but ramps are not included in this. Ramps would obscure the lines needed to build the pyramid true. They would have left a mark on the pyramid, in the cenmetery and in history. There is no mark. What there is is evidence of water. There was water here and it may have been used for little more than filling the boat pits for massive sails or leveling the pyramid base but there is ater here that could have beebn used in cliff face counterweights to move stone. This is consistent with the fact that there is a canal from a water collecting device surrounding the pyramid to the cliff face which bears evidence of water erosion. So they not onlyhad water but actually used it. Find out the source of this water and I'm certain you'll know how they built the pyramid. Nehebkau was the water cycle who manifested as rain according to the Pyramid Texts. But Nehebkau could not have caused water to arise to Giza. We know there are caves under here and we know the powers that be are ignoring them. Any process that took water to the top of the plateau almost certainly involves these caves and Giza meant "Mouth of Caves" to the ancients. There are clues to how the pyramids were built under Giza and the authorities are burying their heads in the sand. The answers are everywhere but it will require some- one to look. Quote "What there is is evidence of water. There was water here and it may have been used for little more than filling the boat pits for massive sails or leveling the pyramid base but there is ater here that could have beebn used in cliff face counterweights to move stone. This is consistent with the fact that there is a canal from a water collecting device surrounding the pyramid to the cliff face which bears evidence of water erosion. So they not onlyhad water but actually used it. Find out the source of this water and I'm certain you'll know how they built the pyramid. Nehebkau was the water cycle who manifested as rain according to the Pyramid Texts. But Nehebkau could not have caused water to arise to Giza. We know there are caves under here and we know the powers that be are ignoring them. Any process that took water to the top of the plateau almost certainly involves these caves and Giza meant "Mouth of Caves" to the ancients." Ah ha now this I think is good reasoning. The old Sphinx may have suffered a bit from the water pouring off the Plateau. It may also be the reason a sump was devised to drain water from the interior of the construction. The idea is sound when it comes to an easily used counterweight and using the old fashioned A frame lever and bucket to get the water from the Nile is not nearly as laborious as dragging all the stone by sledge and ropes. I need to think at bit more on this and maybe come up with a plan. Edited January 7, 2011 by Flashbangwollap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted January 7, 2011 #20 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think you got confused, how would you build a prymid? what materials, tools etc? Today I would buy a pump to pump water up to a counterweight. As the pyramid got taller I'd buy moree pumps. This is by far the most efficient way to build a pyramid today and a similar system was most probably the most efficient way to build it then. It's no muss and no fuss. You just have to pay the elecric bill. The ancients said the Gods built the pyramids so my guess is they didn't even have to pay the bill for lifting. Seker was "chief of lifts" is my guess and the builders said Osiris was cool effervescent water who became Seker in the counter- weight. Counterweights are the most efficient means of lifting on a pyramid and seem to be well evidenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted January 7, 2011 #21 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Folks, remember Cladking loves to hijack threads for himself. If he wants to, let him start a new thread, where the same things as have been can be rehashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cladking Posted January 7, 2011 #22 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Folks, remember Cladking loves to hijack threads for himself. If he wants to, let him start a new thread, where the same things as have been can be rehashed. The title of the thread isn't "How do Egyptologists imagine pyramids were built?". I'm talking about facts and evidence. Until everyone starts talking facts we might never have an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted January 7, 2011 #23 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Anyway, aside from teasing Cladking... Here's a few of the threads here on UM that have to do with constructing the Pyramids at Giza: Pyramids Around the World Why are there no Hieroglyphs Inside the Great Pyramid? Mysteries of the Pyramids It's a fair bit to read through, but after you're done, or even before you're done, you can post questions and someone will answer you. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted January 7, 2011 #24 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Have a look at the video The Searcher providede in the ancient aliens thread. It show ONE man moving and lifting heavy blocks by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted January 7, 2011 #25 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Anyway, aside from teasing Cladking... Here's a few of the threads here on UM that have to do with constructing the Pyramids at Giza: Pyramids Around the World Why are there no Hieroglyphs Inside the Great Pyramid? Mysteries of the Pyramids It's a fair bit to read through, but after you're done, or even before you're done, you can post questions and someone will answer you. Have fun. Thanks Shadow. It would be rather wearying to go through all this for yet another time. Well done. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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