Ever seen "I know what I saw ?

[Sweetpumper]

exactly that was my point.

I know. These guys will play semantics at every turn.

[DBunker]

again contradicting yourself plenty DB. First you state you hate stories and its real proof you want....then you say this.....comical at best.....so if you are not trying to amuse I would stop now if I was you.

[quillius]

:clap: :nw: genius......too good for me

edit to add: Clown

Edited December 19, 2013 by quillius

[NocturnalWatcher]

I was looking forward to this doc for a year or.so before it came out but I was a little disappointed when it finally did

[JimOberg]

I found it more than a little creepy where the narrator lies to his own father about the Gordon Cooper story, to get an impromptu emotional reaction he can use to the program's dramatic advantage. That's pushing 'documentary' artistry across the line, IMHO.

The lie was in telling his Dad that "nobody has ever explained" Cooper's stories, when in fact I have offered investigative-based explanations, and so had Jim McDonald in the 1960s re there never being any 'landing' at Edwards. The producer doesn't have to AGREE with those results -- but to tell his OWN father, on camera while filming, there just NEVER were any such results, that's more than creepy, that's obscene. IMHO.

[Spacenut56]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I disagree Jim. It was great hearing the experiences these people had, and they all had one theme in common, they saw something they could not explain, or had experiences they could not explain.

[Spacenut56]

Space - just fyi - "recant" means to withdraw - I think you meant to say "recall" their experinces.

Typo scuse me. Thank you for the pointing out.

[JimOberg]

JimOberg, on 19 December 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I disagree Jim. It was great hearing the experiences these people had, and they all had one theme in common, they saw something they could not explain, or had experiences they could not explain.

The word you were thinking of is 'recount'. The word you USED was 'recant'. Go look it up.

Happens to me all the time, but I didn't think you were old enough yet for such brain farts.

But more seriously -- testimony is testimony, but how do you go about validating it?

Cooper's stories are good examples. When -- IF -- you ever check with other sources, some serious discrepancies show up. What do you make of that?

Edited December 19, 2013 by JimOberg

[DONTEATUS]

Great outlook Jim ! ITs all in the details in my book. ANd I know what I saw !

IT wasnt plasma,Ducks,light beings,but maybe it could of been anything. I know what I saw ! It wasnt Made on the Planet Earth !

I cant wait for the day I can Prove it ! taps toes to a tune all in a days work !

[JimOberg]

While waiting for the day, there are other things we can do of utility to getting the full context of some of these classic cases.

In Cooper's later years, reportedly he would do phone-ins to the David Letterman show, introducing himself as "astronaut Gordon Cooper" and proclaiming some trite proverb and its importance to people's lives. Letterman supposedly would roll his eyes and drive the audience into shrieks of laughter, at Cooper's expense -- but he kept calling back.

Can anybody check the Letterman archives, or their office in NYC, to verify dates of these call-ins and maybe get videos?

It could help characterize Cooper's public behavior in the later years of his life, when the only other public venues who welcomed him were UFO conventions and late-night radio. He'd isolated and exiled himself from the military and space community by behavior his former colleagues disapproved of -- not UFOs, for the most part, but promoting aviation industry scams.

Sad story, not widely known. Can we dig into knowing it better?

[Spacenut56]

JimOberg, on 19 December 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

The word you were thinking of is 'recount'. The word you USED was 'recant'. Go look it up.

Happens to me all the time, but I didn't think you were old enough yet for such brain farts.

But more seriously -- testimony is testimony, but how do you go about validating it?

Cooper's stories are good examples. When -- IF -- you ever check with other sources, some serious discrepancies show up. What do you make of that?

No Jim, the word I meant to type was recall, as in remembering what experience they had. Not the greatest typer here and freely admit it. I don't feel I have to validate anyones experience because I am familiair with every experience they had, and nothing in their statements has changed, so like I have said before you can choose to either accept the evidence, or not to. I am thinking you are not.

[Sweetpumper]

Not the greatest typer

It's "TYPIST", you stupid, moronic believer!!!

Edited December 20, 2013 by Sweetpumper

[DONTEATUS]

Thats juz rude Sweet-P ~ Spacenuts are people too ! juz like U ! But Its all in fun I know !

It reminds me of Mid and his many quotes and ability to bring us all back down to erath !

His sspellin was da-Bomb always ! I thunk he had a dictionary in his brain.

You have a Great Holiday Sweetpumper And a Great New Year !

A fav Mid quote and one of mine too !

From Plato Phardrus

"The natural function of the wing is to soar upwardsand carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of Gods. More than any

other thing that partakes of the Nature of the Devine"

Miss you Mike !

[JimOberg]

I found two of the 1984 Letterman gigs on youtube, maybe Gordo was just funning, maybe not. Still looks kinda weird to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDAPT7dDSd0

6:30 ff cooper call to melman

Featuring Mercury 1 astronaut and American hero Gordon Cooper. The story about Larry "Bud" Melman's unemployment was actually a true story that they turned into a running gag. Calvert DeForest actually had a day job during the first two years of "Late Night" and his boss, somehow oblivious to his employee's fame, fired Calvert when he found out about it.

Mar 13, 1984

http://www.tv.com/shows/late-night-with-david-letterman/show-0365-840313-276432/

During "Doctor's Waiting Room Etiquette," Larry Bud explains he's just been fired from his day job as a drug clinic receptionist, so he gets a consoling call from former Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper.

Apr 2, 1984

http://www.tv.com/shows/late-night-with-david-letterman/show-0376-957417/

Dave welcomes newly-hired NBC Employee Wendy Moran, gift-basketing her with a new NBC ID; a videotaped welcome from Connie Chung, Marv Albert, and Willard Scott; an NBC training film; a phone call from Mercury Astronaut Gordon Cooper, and champagne with Larry "Bud" Melman.

June 26, 1984

http://www.tv.com/shows/late-night-with-david-letterman/show-0417-1113416/

The apparition of The Panicky Guy appears in the studio audience, then floats into the hallway. A frightened Gordon Cooper calls, screams, and hangs up.

June 19, 1984 Show #0413 (840619)

http://www.tv.com/shows/late-night-with-david-letterman/show-0413-840619-178452/

Chris Elliott (as The Panicky Guy) dies and gets a call from Gordon Cooper; Howard Stern defends his controversial local radio show.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEN3ba_l1ro at 04:00

[DBunker]

Love the Phoenix lights witnesses - indeed something highly unusual was in the sky that night over central and southern Arizona.

That depends.... if you consider an aircraft (first event) and flairs (second event) to be "unusual".

Edited December 21, 2013 by DBunker

[JimOberg]

Well, if you watched the video, you'll note the witnesses described the craft as completely silent. I know the last few airplanes I've seen were rather noisy.

Flares? Hmmm, don't think so, as the craft was first reported up around Prescott somewhere and it finally disappeared near Tucson - a distance of 130-140 miles or so.

SB, have you ever read ANY detailed skeptical analysis of the stories?

[zoser]

JimOberg, on 19 December 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

The word you were thinking of is 'recount'. The word you USED was 'recant'. Go look it up.

Happens to me all the time, but I didn't think you were old enough yet for such brain farts.

But more seriously -- testimony is testimony, but how do you go about validating it?

Cooper's stories are good examples. When -- IF -- you ever check with other sources, some serious discrepancies show up. What do you make of that?

I await your counter argument to Cooper's sighting.

As for validating testimonies. In a lot of cases that is not possible; that's why other methods of inquiry become important such as comparison and a thorough knowledge of the subject.

Just one person shouting 'hoax' at every report that emerges is never going to make even a dent in this subject.

[Lilly]

Here's the thing, when does a sighting reach the point where it's given some sort of credence? How many witnesses, what caliber, what other supporting evidence is needed before we address it as being a 'real event'? In 2000 a huge silent flying triangle was seen over Illinois. Many of the witnesses were police officers. Was this a 'real event' or not? What about Stephensville TX or the Chicago O'Hare Airport sightings... real or imagined? How does one explain so many people 'imagining' the very same thing at the very same time?

Now, I'm not saying these events were 'aliens from who knows where', just that it seems pretty obvious to me that these people were indeed seeing something.

[badeskov]

To me, if numerous credible people report an event, then its worthy of merit, and in my mind, something of note happened. Stephensville is a good example, along with Phoenix and that Yukon event.

Maybe it was natural phenomena, perhaps it was our military, or maybe…..it was something else.

The Phoenix lights have been discussed into the ground and all indications are that it was military.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[bmk1245]

Here's the thing, when does a sighting reach the point where it's given some sort of credence? How many witnesses, what caliber, what other supporting evidence is needed before we address it as being a 'real event'? In 2000 a huge silent flying triangle was seen over Illinois. Many of the witnesses were police officers. Was this a 'real event' or not? What about Stephensville TX or the Chicago O'Hare Airport sightings... real or imagined? How does one explain so many people 'imagining' the very same thing at the very same time?

Now, I'm not saying these events were 'aliens from who knows where', just that it seems pretty obvious to me that these people were indeed seeing something.

Its not about imagining, its about perceiving/remembering/retelling under various external/internal conditions during event. No one is just visual data registering machine. Our brains do not have HDD/SSD to retrieve information exactly the way it was recorded from the eyes. It applies to all bipedals who think they are smart (i.e. humans). Examples from aviation just prove this: one case - short landing of FeDex Flight 1478: with all experience and onboard/offboard equipment they managed to "cut the trees". What role in that accident played slight color blindness of the first officer? Who knows, probably minor, nevertheless it shows that even pilots aren't perfect physiologically, not to mention all sorts of psychological (written in our brains) issues with all sorts of beliefs. You probably heard of pilots "sitting on the wing" experience... What makes police officers better "eyewitness" in UFO events (besides tasering grannies...ok, mental grannies... nevertheless... or making more grammar errors in one sentence than actual words...)? No one is perfect, and it applies to all "badges".

Anyway, there is an excellent book - Aviation Visual Perception, R.Gibb et al, Ashgate, 2010 - addressing issues of misperceptions and visual limitations. Its one of the books I'd take to the trip to Mars... And beyond...

[DONTEATUS]

Merry Christmas Lilly ! ANd All of the Greatest U of M`ers !

[badeskov]

Merry Christmas Lilly ! ANd All of the Greatest U of M`ers !

Merry Christmas Big D.!

Cheers,

Badeskov

[DBunker]

Right back at ya, oh Mighty master of BBQ.