Ozner Posted February 12, 2011 #251 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Actually, that's not true. One can represent this in very simple mathematics. If God is perfect, then the chance that anything God will do (or inspire, etc) is incorrect is 0%. Whatever God does is perfect. Man is imperfect. We have no way of assigning a value to how imperfect Man is, but let us say Man is 100% imperfect, so anything Man does (or inspires, etc) will always be incorrect. Whatever Man does is imperfect. God inspires Man to write the bible. The chance that what Man writes will be incorrect is 0% x 100%, or 0%. The result is always perfection. If God is perfect, anything God does is always 'perfect'. It doesn't matter how many, or how imperfect, any 'tools' are that God uses. I didn't really word that the way I probably should have. God may be perfect, but the message doesn't have to be. God must communicate to humans on human terms. Human language and human thought is limited, in order for a "perfect" message to get through to people they would have to be made perfect to understand it. If you write a perfectly grammatically correct letter, then have someone translate it who is barely literate, it won't turn out perfect. You could argue that God could alter humanity's perception of it to make it the message come out perfect, but this would require God to change the way humans are, which wouldn't happen. The existence of everything outside of God is proof that God creates and tolerates imperfection. Either God is not perfect, or God creates that which is intentionally imperfect. If humanity received a perfect message from God it might even hamper our individual development as a species, there are things we need to do and learn on our own. Edited February 12, 2011 by Ozner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 13, 2011 #252 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) The existence of everything outside of God is proof that God creates and tolerates imperfection. There are other possibilities. Either God is not perfect, or God creates that which is intentionally imperfect. I agree the former is a possibility, but I cannot reason how the latter could be possible. God must communicate to humans on human terms. Human language and human thought is limited, in order for a "perfect" message to get through to people they would have to be made perfect to understand it. You could argue that God could alter humanity's perception of it to make it the message come out perfect, but this would require God to change the way humans are, which wouldn't happen. Here, you are speculating what a perfect being is capable of. The truth is you do not know, so any argument incorporating 'limits' or 'mandates' with respect that perfect being carries no weight. If we are to define 'perfect' as being "without flaw or fault" (as seems to be the popular definition) then nothing God does can be, or contain, an error. Edited February 13, 2011 by Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozner Posted February 13, 2011 #253 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) There are other possibilities. There are always many possibilities. I agree the former is a possibility, but I cannot reason how the latter could be possible. Well the world itself isn't perfect from our point of view. Unless the world is perfect in the sense that it's exactly the way God wanted it to be. Here, you are speculating what a perfect being is capable of. The truth is you do not know, so any argument incorporating 'limits' or 'mandates' with respect that perfect being carries no weight. Well, I'm trying more to argue about what a perfect being would want to do, although that is related in many ways to what it can do. I will agree though that coming up with a definite idea about what a perfect being can/cannot do or would/would isn't possible, and speculating isn't easy. Seeing into the mind of Cthulhu does drive people mad after all. If we are to define 'perfect' as being "without flaw or fault" (as seems to be the popular definition) then nothing God does can be, or contain, an error. True, but then it wouldn't matter what God did. It could seem incredibly flawed or bizarre from our point of view, but our opinion wouldn't matter, it would still be perfect. Only a perfect being would even be able to judge what perfection is. Edited February 13, 2011 by Ozner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 13, 2011 #254 Share Posted February 13, 2011 True, but then it wouldn't matter what God did. It could seem incredibly flawed or bizarre from our point of view, but our opinion wouldn't matter, it would still be perfect. Only a perfect being would even be able to judge what perfection is. Agree 100%!!!! Who knows, maybe we are perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvan Posted February 17, 2011 #255 Share Posted February 17, 2011 that's a big statement to say/ declare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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