Help clarify this Hy-Brasil/Atlantis thing?

[The Puzzler]

The last documented sighting of Hy-Brasil was in 1872, when author T. J. Westropp and several companions saw the island appear and then vanish. This was Mr. Westropp’s third view of Hy-Brasil, but on this voyage he had brought his mother and some friends to verify the existence of Hy-Brasil.

Researchers and archaeologists have searched in the most likely locations west of Ireland, and there is evidence that islands existed there. Shallow-water shells have been found at Porcupine Bank, somewhat northwest of the most likely location of Hy-Brasil. Even further north, similar shells were discovered at Rockhall.

So, there is evidence of land mass changes in that part of the Atlantic Ocean.

http://historicmysteries.com/hy-brasil-the-other-atlantis

I'm not sure what the big deal is really. All through the North Sea is places once above water. Water and storm erosion is very severe there.

[Abramelin]

The last documented sighting of Hy-Brasil was in 1872, when author T. J. Westropp and several companions saw the island appear and then vanish. This was Mr. Westropp’s third view of Hy-Brasil, but on this voyage he had brought his mother and some friends to verify the existence of Hy-Brasil.

Researchers and archaeologists have searched in the most likely locations west of Ireland, and there is evidence that islands existed there. Shallow-water shells have been found at Porcupine Bank, somewhat northwest of the most likely location of Hy-Brasil. Even further north, similar shells were discovered at Rockhall.

So, there is evidence of land mass changes in that part of the Atlantic Ocean.

http://historicmysteries.com/hy-brasil-the-other-atlantis

I'm not sure what the big deal is really. All through the North Sea is places once above water. Water and storm erosion is very severe there.

The 'big deal' is that these mythical islands may once have been above water, but that was many, many millennia before they were reported to have been seen above water.

[cormac mac airt]

The 'big deal' is that these mythical islands may once have been above water, but that was many, many millennia before they were reported to have been seen above water.

One would be hard pressed for evidence of that Abe, particularly if Porcupine Bank were what was being alleged as Hy-Brasil back in 1872. Undersea areas don't just rise and sink that fast without volcanic activity of some sort involved. Yet, evidently none has been reported with these sightings of Hy-Brasil.

cormac

[Abramelin]

One would be hard pressed for evidence of that Abe, particularly if Porcupine Bank were what was being alleged as Hy-Brasil back in 1872. Undersea areas don't just rise and sink that fast without volcanic activity of some sort involved. Yet, evidently none has been reported with these sightings of Hy-Brasil.

cormac

Well, I have posted about "hot blobs" rising up, creating islands and micro-continents, and then going down agian.

Scientists now know about it.

You didn't?

[cormac mac airt]

Well, I have posted about "hot blobs" rising up, creating islands and micro-continents, and then going down agian.

Scientists now know about it.

You didn't?

Your "hot blobs" would entail the necessity of volcanic action, Abramelin, which is what I was talking about. And yet, no volcanic action was mentioned. As to the 1872 account, T. J. Westropp had claimed to see Hy-Brasil on three different occasions. Even bringing his mother and friends the last time he saw it. So it can be assumed that it was in the same location on all three occasions. The last of which he claims to have watched it appear and vanish. Again, volcanic activity would have to have played a part but nothing like that is ever mentioned. One has to ask "WHY NOT?".

cormac

[Abramelin]

It all was just 'hot air', eh?

But I know you didn't check that latest theory.

And I am sorry about that; I should have posted a link; it takes me hours to post something sensible right now

[DataPhreak]

What I don't understand is why everyone discounts volcanic activity. Go to the coordinates and zoom out a click. Notice all the horizontal and diagonal ridges and troughs below the shelf? That looks like volcanic or seizmic activity. Specifically, it looks like at one point the land itself was higher, and then suddenly the earth beneith it was scooped out and the area where Hy-Brasil should be fell, causing long uniform 'wrinkles' on the ocean floor. This could have been from magma underneith cooling rapidly, or being relocated. (just a postulation, as there are many, many other potential explainations for them.) At any rate, those 'wrinkles' were likely formed quite recently as ocean currents, coral growth and the like would have smoothed them out quite quickly.

As for the show, the second season was crap. The first season was quite convincing and well thought out. I believe there is some validity to the concept of ancient aliens interacting with the human race. If you believe aliens are visiting now, why would you not believe aliens visited in the past? That being said, in no way can anything in the series be considered proof of alien interaction. There were some things in the first season that were quite convincing though, such as mulitple cultures pointing to orion's belt and sirius as being the point of origin. All things with a grain of salt.

[Brinty]

I had to comment on this thread after reading through it. Like so many of you, I Google'd about Hy Brasil after first hearing of the legend on Ancient Aliens. As a quick side note: they sure do pull some stuff out of their bums on Ancient Aliens. I can name many examples of inconsistencies or just plain insanity that I've noticed while casually watching it. For example, them claiming that Sumerian language had similarities to modern language(s) - Adam vs Adamu. Fact is that the darn tablets were translated only recently, long after the language itself died, so people had to invent words as they translated them, resulting in this similarity .. duh. If not paying attention though, they can get you with little twists of logic like that.

Regarding the 'binary code' given to this random bloke (I am a software engineer, aka programmer):

1. Binary code can be interpreted any number of ways. Binary is just 0s and 1s, as you know. To give it meaning, some set of standards must be applied (e.g. ASCII). The possible interpetations are nearly endless. There is no 'universal' way in which binary is translated into language (universal as in universal law). It varies between computer systems, though in modern times ASCII, then Unicode (UTF-8 or UTF-16) have been widely adopted (for text). Still, there must be some standard defined, or it can not be 'translated'.
   
2. The programmer who interpreted the code clearly lists (in the video of his work) that he corrected for 'errors and noise'. How much 'correction' was done? We don't know. The code could have been massively altered. On top of that, he filled in the 'gaps' (seeing in brackets in the video).
   
3. The programmer did not indicate what standard(s) he used to translate the binary. Did he use multiple standards, applying whichever he needed to make the next character 'fit'? If so, I could do the same and make it half-say almost anything. I will have to take the binary from the video one day and do my own check on it, as you definitely can't 'just trust' that show.
   
4. It makes no sense to communicate in binary when the direct meaning of the binary is English. Why not use English and skip the binary? When using binary, the problem is how to interpret it. Without a pre-defined standard, it is essentially a cipher without a 'key'.
   
5. UPDATE: It seems that there were many pages of 'code', none of it released (by request of the producers). The programmer himself confirms all of this here, http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2011/02/rendlesham-forest-binary-code.html . Apparently he did use the ASCII standard to interpret the binary code, which as this page points out wasn't even adopted until 6 years after this guy supposedly had this encounter. Also, if this was legit, you'd think the producers of the show wouldn't mind it getting out.
   
6. UPDATE 2: Apparently the guy even says that the Ancient Aliens show and that programmer didn't generate the 'right' message, ref same as above and supposed real message on earthfiles (side note: click on anything at that site and you are prompted to 'purchase a subscription'... cynics can take it from there). For me, this sends very bad messages - especially if this guy is directing people there to get the 'real' message.
   
7. For above reasons and many more, this is simply absurd.
   

Regarding Hy Brazil:

1. There are now MANY examples of legends/myths turning out to be real places found by archaeologists (e.g. City of Troy). Therefore, the fact that it is taken as a myth/legend is certainly not reason to assume it does not exist. In fact, the existence of any myth/legend is grounds to initiate an investigation to see how rooted in fact the legend truly is.
   
2. There seems to be ZERO evidence that this place exists or existed for real.
   
3. The waters in this area suggests the remote possibility of an island possibly existing in this general area (likely not at the exact coordinates Ancient Aliens came up with). However, nobody has proven that, not by any means. It has not even really been hinted at, other than wild speculation by untrained people.
   
4. The fact that the 'coordinates' in the 'binary code' point exactly to this place on some ancient map that is faaarrr from accurate make it even more unlikely that the 'message' was real. This actually lends more even support for the premise that the binary code is a total fabrication (though anyone who knows anything about computers could tell you that.. as I said, it is meaningless without some pre-defined way to interpret it).
   
5. Where in the world Ancient Aliens got their 'facts' on this place, I dunno.
   

Tangent - One of the more interesting shows was the new one that aired last night (August 11th). I had no idea that entire gigantic multi-teired structures had been carved out of bedrock like the Christian churches in Nigeria and the Buddhist caves in India. That is amazing. The gigantic stones at Baalbek (dating 6000-9000 BC by *real* archaeologists) are also truly head-scratching. There seems to be a pattern of manipulation of stones in ways that are simply not feasible using traditional methods. Something is missing, not sure what - and certainly not sure that it is aliens! There are enough truly baffling mysteries in history that this show need not destroy its credibility by having these people shout 'aliens!' every 5 minutes. I can't but help believe *some* of the participants of this show realize just how absurd their argument is, but continue with it because this is their 'career'. It doesn't exactly make for objective 'scientific' observations, it makes for outlandish speculation in the form of *entertainment*. Ask some of these guys *anything* and the answer is, invariably: Aliens!

Just a few of my thoughts.

Hi, sorry I'm late in commenting on this topic but I've only just discovered it. I first became aware of binary coding in 1954, then in 1967 I was trained as a mainframe computer technician and learned to write machine language programs in ASCII. This, (1967) as you will note, was some 13 years BEFORE the Rendlesham Forest incident.

I draw your attention to this excerpt from Wikipedia re the evolution of ASCII:-

The American Standard Code for Information Interchange (ASCII, pronunciation: /'æski/ ass-kee)[2] is a character-encoding scheme based on the ordering of the English alphabet. ASCII codes represent text in computers, communications equipment, and other devices that use text. Most modern character-encoding schemes are based on ASCII, though they support many more characters than ASCII does.

US-ASCII is the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) preferred charset name for ASCII.

Historically, ASCII developed from telegraphic codes. Its first commercial use was as a seven-bit teleprinter code promoted by Bell data services. Work on ASCII formally began on October 6, 1960, with the first meeting of the American Standards Association's (ASA) X3.2 subcommittee. The first edition of the standard was published during 1963,[3][4] a major revision during 1967,[5] and the most recent update during 1986.[6] Compared to earlier telegraph codes, the proposed Bell code and ASCII were both ordered for more convenient sorting (i.e., alphabetization) of lists, and added features for devices other than teleprinters.

ASCII includes definitions for 128 characters: 33 are non-printing control characters (now mostly obsolete)[7] that affect how text and space is processed;[8] 95 are printable characters, including the space which is considered an invisible graphic.[9] The most commonly used character encoding on the World Wide Web was US-ASCII[10] until December 2007, when it was surpassed by UTF-8.[11][12][13]

[PurpleStuart]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/OrteliusWorldMap1570.jpg

Ortelius' map. Includes an island named "Brafil" which is supposedly Hy-Brasil. It's just a little west of the southern tip "Irlant" (Ireland).

Actually, it might not be Brafil. It's a strange character he used for the name, it's not the same as the other F's and neither is it the same as the other S's. However, the Brazil we know today is on the map as "Brafil" as well.

With the Spanish language, the accent of Spain is a lisp. I'm not sure how recent the accent is but that could account for the spelling.

Brasil + Accent = Bra-th-il. Brathil -> Brafil.

But the guy who made the map is Flemish, but a similar thing could have happened as a result of the nature of his own language. Or he could have heard the names from Spaniards.

But it was the portugese who discovered Brazil. Whatever, that's a different topic.

LOL thats a stylised 's' not an 'f' and it certainly has nothing to do with spelling Brasil with an f because the spainish supposedly all have a lisp!!! It may of given me a chuckle but I'm sure any Spaniard reading that might have a bone to pick with you! S written like an F

The map isn't particularly consistent about how it writes its S's but thats hardly surprising if you think about it as many early maps are made up of copies of other maps. A world map like this would have many earlier maps as references, and maybe more than one cartographer working on it coping down the names of places word for word. The Master may of given his name to a map but you can be sure one or more apprentices did a lot of the leg work! It is just a guess but that could explain the inconsistency.

Furthermore it is just this copying from earlier sources that gives the impression that a phantom island like Hy-Brasil ever/still existed. My belief is that the island we see as Hy-Brasil on these maps originally came from a ship mistakenly mapping an island out of place and a cartographer - knowing of the legend - named it Hy-Brasil when he came to put it on the map. Maybe it was a flawed sighting of land or an early cartographer's mistake or whimsy even. But ever since then it was copied over and over on successive maps, using the previous flawed map as a reference, a map-maker's chinese whispers if you like. Is it a coincidence that Hy-Brasil started to disappear off maps as soon as more modern techniques for maps were employed?

Whatever my head tells me, I do hope I'm wrong and it did really exist

[LRW]

So I read the article about the alien-given binary code that supposedly gave the coordinates for hy-brasil. Hy-Brasil is a legendary island said to have been populated by advanced humans, like atlantis.

What bothers me is that this sounds really interesting, yet I've heard of no investigations. The binary story is a little strange for me too immediately accept, but it's worth looking at the coordinates right? Hy-Brasil could be significant on so many levels, it raises a lot of questions from me.

Has anyone checked out the coordinates? Is Hy-Brasil an actual geographical place or just a myth? If it was an actual place, has there been any archeological investigations where it used to be?

At the very least I'd like to know more about the legend.

It was likely a real place or possibly still a real place but hidden.

In irish mythology there is a story called the voyage of bran, it gives a hint towards a mystical island across the sea from ireland.

This is some of the synopsis...

Bran mac Febail (modern spelling: Bran mac Feabhail) embarks upon a quest to the Other World. One day while Bran is walking, he hears beautiful music, so beautiful, in fact, that it lulls him to sleep. Upon awakening, he sees a beautiful silver branch in front of him. He returns to his royal house, and while his company is there, an Otherworld woman appears, and sings to him a poem about the land where the branch had grown. In this Otherworld, it is always summer, there is no want of food or water, and no sickness or despair ever touches the perfect people. She tells Bran to voyage to the Land of Women across the sea, and the next day he gathers a company of men to do so.

It is a very interesting story and you may want to look at it with more depth.

These mythologies can contain lots of truth and use encoded metaphors.

[Soul Kitchen]

LOL thats a stylised 's' not an 'f' and it certainly has nothing to do with spelling Brasil with an f because the spainish supposedly all have a lisp!!! It may of given me a chuckle but I'm sure any Spaniard reading that might have a bone to pick with you! S written like an F

I mainly just wanted to acknowledge it in case someone would want to use the absence of a conventional 's' as an argument against the whole Hy-Brasil thing. The lisp theory was just a shot out of the cannon.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Soul Kitchen

[turn on tune in]

So I read the article about the alien-given binary code that supposedly gave the coordinates for hy-brasil. Hy-Brasil is a legendary island said to have been populated by advanced humans, like atlantis.

What bothers me is that this sounds really interesting, yet I've heard of no investigations. The binary story is a little strange for me too immediately accept, but it's worth looking at the coordinates right? Hy-Brasil could be significant on so many levels, it raises a lot of questions from me.

Has anyone checked out the coordinates? Is Hy-Brasil an actual geographical place or just a myth? If it was an actual place, has there been any archeological investigations where it used to be?

At the very least I'd like to know more about the legend.

hi you can watch the show on the internet - at http://www.justin.tv/downtherabbithole?#/w/2037780304/2

which was the episode on the rendlesham ufo case in the uk, on a milatary american air base there. the show is repeated every so often. it is one of the uk's best documented cases.

on that episode it gives a full account with the airman who wrote the binary code down. it also gives the grid refference for high brazil.

so the people telling you its all rubbish dont know jack ****.

[PurpleStuart]

on that episode it gives a full account with the airman who wrote the binary code down. it also gives the grid refference for high brazil.

so the people telling you its all rubbish dont know jack ****.

Just because it was on TV doesn't make it true.

[JasenChase]

I am fascinated with the topic and I as well know the whole Binary Code reference to this topic..I am not sure of the Binary Code being factual as the man was former military and could have easily received help with it..As far as Hybreasal, I am convinced of it's existence..There have been some Archaeological evidence that there were islands located at these coordinates and recently I may add!

[Abramelin]

I am fascinated with the topic and I as well know the whole Binary Code reference to this topic..I am not sure of the Binary Code being factual as the man was former military and could have easily received help with it..As far as Hybreasal, I am convinced of it's existence..There have been some Archaeological evidence that there were islands located at these coordinates and recently I may add!

Hy Brasil was located on what's now the Porcupine Seabight/ Pocupine Bank, but as far as is known, it was only above sealevel during the last ice age.

.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Abramelin

[JesseCuster]

You all seemed to have dismissed the binary part of this conversation. As I'm sure you all know binary is a very real code. Its been used for many many years. All it is, is morse code really. "1"s and "0"s...dots and dashes. Its one of the oldest languges in the world dating back even to the myans. Wouldn't the be the most logical way to send and recieve messages to and from aliens?

Binary is not a language. It's a way of encoding numbers. I cringe when I hear a robot in a TV show saying something like "I recognise that, it's binary, I can read binary!". That's like me saying I can read the Latin alphabet. The Latin alphabet is no more a language than binary is. It could be English, French, German, Irish, etc. or something usually written in a different alphabet converted to the Latin alphabet - Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, Quenya, Klingon, etc. A person who can only read and speak English can't read Portuguese just because it uses the same alphabet.

Similarly, if the ancient Mayans used binary to encode information or text, you're utterly stumped as to how to translate it or make sense of it unless you already understand their language.

Merely knowing that data is binary tells you nothing about how to interpret it. A JPEG is encoded on your camera's memory card using binary data - but you can't make any sense of it on its own - you need to know that it was encoded using the JPEG codec and need the codec or the details of how the codec works in order to convert the raw data into something that looks like a photograph. It's of course possible that aliens use binary to encode co-ordinates, but if they're going to use our entirely arbitrary co-ordinate system, then why not just give the co-ordinates in plain text instead of obscuring it in binary if it's intended for humans to use that data?

Edited May 15, 2012 by Archimedes

[element115]

Hy Brasil is pictured on the Brazil flag.It is perfectly round,and it comes & goes about every 7 years to the same vicinity.Ancient people described the inhabitants of Hy Brasil as highly advanced,just like the inhabitants of Atlantis.The letters in the binary code in parenthesis were faked,I don't recall the coordinates being in parenthesis.

Ancient people were not stupid,or chronic liers,but they didn't have the high tech vocabulary we have today.They may describe flying ships with fire coming out the exhaust as fire breathing dragons,or flaming chariots.Genies from a bottle may have been hand held hologram projecting communicators.Giant fish that swallow people whole then spit them out several days later alive could've been USOs.Rods that shoot lightening out was probably a laser gun.And large floating alien bases would've sensibly have been called islands.

I do believe governments are closely investigating Hy Brasil,but the information is being kept from the public.A lot of alien info is classified way higher then top secret because it's been said that if the public found out all that the governments knew about aliens it would rip apart the very fabric of civilization.That's why billions of dollars have been secretly spent on the men in black program.Islands are not perfectly round,and they don't come & go whenever they please.Hy Brasil is most likely a classic alien "flying saucer" that can float & go in inner & outter space.

[flashman7870]

And im sure that's all backed up by evidence from a respected source?

Look, its an interesting piece of fiction, and i a mgoing to use it as a name for south america in one of my stories, but thats all it can ever be, a peice of interesting fiction.

[element115]

I could tell you my source..

(But then I'd have to kill you.)

LOL

[Abramelin]

Hy Brasil is pictured on the Brazil flag.It is perfectly round,and it comes & goes about every 7 years to the same vicinity.Ancient people described the inhabitants of Hy Brasil as highly advanced,just like the inhabitants of Atlantis.The letters in the binary code in parenthesis were faked,I don't recall the coordinates being in parenthesis.

Ancient people were not stupid,or chronic liers,but they didn't have the high tech vocabulary we have today.They may describe flying ships with fire coming out the exhaust as fire breathing dragons,or flaming chariots.Genies from a bottle may have been hand held hologram projecting communicators.Giant fish that swallow people whole then spit them out several days later alive could've been USOs.Rods that shoot lightening out was probably a laser gun.And large floating alien bases would've sensibly have been called islands.

I do believe governments are closely investigating Hy Brasil,but the information is being kept from the public.A lot of alien info is classified way higher then top secret because it's been said that if the public found out all that the governments knew about aliens it would rip apart the very fabric of civilization.That's why billions of dollars have been secretly spent on the men in black program.Islands are not perfectly round,and they don't come & go whenever they please.Hy Brasil is most likely a classic alien "flying saucer" that can float & go in inner & outter space.

The national flag of Brazil (Portuguese: Bandeira do Brasil) is a blue disc depicting a starry sky spanned by a curved band inscribed with the national motto, within a yellow rhombus, on a green field. Brazil officially adopted this design for its national flag on November 19, 1889, replacing the flag of the second Empire of Brazil. The concept was the work of Raimundo Teixeira Mendes, with the collaboration of Miguel Lemos, Manuel Pereira Reis and Décio Villares.

The green field and the yellow rhombus from the previous imperial flag were preserved – the green and yellow colors representing the Braganza-Habsburg dynasty.[1] A blue circle with 27 white five-pointed stars replaced the arms of the Empire of Brazil. The stars, whose position in the flag reflect the sky over Rio de Janeiro on November 15, 1889, represent the union's federated units – each star representing a specific state. The motto "Ordem e Progresso" ("Order and Progress") is inspired by Auguste Comte's motto of positivism: "L’amour pour principe et l’ordre pour base; le progrès pour but" ("Love as a principle and order as the basis; progress as the goal").

http://en.wikipedia..../Flag_of_Brazil

And for the rest, I think you are talking about Colonel Fawcett's discoveries, and that manuscript called Document 512?

++

This is a post about the "Chronicle of Akakor":

It's a hoax, and it uses Document 512, amongst many other things.

And I own a copy of "Gods of the Cataclysm" by Hugh Fox, and it contains a translation of your Document 512.

Here a scan of a page of that translation (click on the thumbnail to enlarge it):

.

.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Abramelin

[Big Bad Voodoo]

This is truely ineteresting mystery. I guess this will be my first topic which I will suscribe to follow.

[Abramelin]

I have been thinking of copying/scanning and posting the whole translation, but I have this nagging feeling someone already posted the translation online.

[Erudite Celt]

I personally think that the two Skellig Islands are the most likly candidates for Hy-Brasil.

[Abramelin]

I personally think that the two Skellig Islands are the most likly candidates for Hy-Brasil.

I never heard of those, but I checked a map:

They are less than peanuts lol.

But ok, it's like a fisher's tale: "I cought a fish THIS big"....

[Erudite Celt]

Hi AB, it's very true. The Irish have a gift for exaggeration. The Skellig's have a very long and ancient history. The name Brasil I believe comes from a semi-historical figure known as Bres / Breas who had an association with the islands in legend. It is not difficult to see how Bres or Breas became courrupted to Bresil or Brasil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bres