Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Catholicism


dazdillinjah

Recommended Posts

Typical Catholic reply ...blame it on Christians ....hey Christians dont have a Pope

So how could the 'Inter Cetera Bill' be from Christians ??? easy its not ..its from Catholics

and the Grand Inquisition will also be blamed upon Christians but ..HELLO no the Catholics done all that

First if you had you read all my posts ,you would have realized that I am an atheist .what I am attempting to do is bring a balance to your obvious anti catholic bias.and I note that you never answered the question as to which sect you belong to .what have you to hide?

fullywired

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 345
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • dazdillinjah

    73

  • Paranoid Android

    51

  • fullywired

    31

  • Star of the Sea

    26

The term "Christian" is defined as someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Yeah, Catholics are definitely Christians.

Catholicism was the first real organization of Christians, actually. Jesus told Peter to found it, and he did. All the popes are successors of Peter. All other Christian religions broke off from us, not the other way around.

We do not worship Mary or the Pope. We consider Mary special because she quite literally gave birth to God. Because Jesus was a good little Jewish boy, he listens to his mother. So, if we pray to her, she can put out a good word for us, you know? She's an intercessor for us. The Pope is just our spiritual leader on Earth. We don't believe we need him to have a relationship with God at all, he just helps us out occasionally in matters of Faith and morals. He directs how we should conduct our rituals, and directs what exactly the Catholic church believes.

Edited by Phi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The term "Christian" is defined as someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Yeah, Catholics are definitely Christians.

Catholicism was the first real organization of Christians, actually. Jesus told Peter to found it, and he did. All the popes are All other Christian religions broke off from us, not the other way around.

We do not worship Mary or the Pope. We consider Mary special because she quite literally gave birth to God. Because Jesus was a good little Jewish boy, he listens to his mother. So, if we pray to her, she can put out a good word for us, you know? She's an intercessor for us. The Pope is just our spiritual leader on Earth. We don't believe we need him to have a relationship with God at all, he just helps us out occasionally in matters of Faith and morals. He directs how we should conduct our rituals, and directs what exactly the Catholic church believes.

:tu:

Edit: "All Popes are ALL other Christian religions broke off from us".... can you clarify what you mean Phi thanks :)

Edited by Star of the Sea
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi.

I'm a practicing Catholic. Maybe I can help here.

I worship Jesus Christ - The Word and Son of God.

I adore The Blessed Virgin as one adores her own mother. We hail her...we do not worship her. I pray the Rosary. The Rosary is Mary's dedication to her son and she asks us to pray it. There are decades and those decades remind of of Jesus' life here on earth, what he preached and what he did for us. It represents her love and devotion to her Son.

The Pope. He is our leader. He is in infallible...but only when preaching on the Faith. He is human and has flaws like anyone else. This starts with St Peter who was with Jesus for several years until Peter actually saw him die on the Cross. We need a leader. If you don't have a leader you have all of these other Religions popping up that don't have any real direction. (not do snub all Protestant Faiths because many are true followers of the Word).

Catholics are Christians...we are the first Christians starting with St. Peter.

I am not a pagan. I am a Christian.

LulaSimeon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi.

I'm a practicing Catholic. Maybe I can help here.

I worship Jesus Christ - The Word and Son of God.

I adore The Blessed Virgin as one adores her own mother. We hail her...we do not worship her. I pray the Rosary. The Rosary is Mary's dedication to her son and she asks us to pray it. There are decades and those decades remind of of Jesus' life here on earth, what he preached and what he did for us. It represents her love and devotion to her Son.

The Pope. He is our leader. He is in infallible...but only when preaching on the Faith. He is human and has flaws like anyone else. This starts with St Peter who was with Jesus for several years until Peter actually saw him die on the Cross. We need a leader. If you don't have a leader you have all of these other Religions popping up that don't have any real direction. (not do snub all Protestant Faiths because many are true followers of the Word).

Catholics are Christians...we are the first Christians starting with St. Peter.

I am not a pagan. I am a Christian.

Hi LulaSimeon,

Nice post! Peter wasn't at the foot of the cross though - it was St. John, who was with the Blessed Mother as described in John 19:26-27.

Edit: Apologies my post has come out in strange format?!

Edited by Paranoid Android
Fixed quote tags
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi.

I'm a practicing Catholic. Maybe I can help here.

I worship Jesus Christ - The Word and Son of God.

I adore The Blessed Virgin as one adores her own mother. We hail her...we do not worship her. I pray the Rosary. The Rosary is Mary's dedication to her son and she asks us to pray it. There are decades and those decades remind of of Jesus' life here on earth, what he preached and what he did for us. It represents her love and devotion to her Son.

The Pope. He is our leader. He is in infallible...but only when preaching on the Faith. He is human and has flaws like anyone else. This starts with St Peter who was with Jesus for several years until Peter actually saw him die on the Cross. We need a leader. If you don't have a leader you have all of these other Religions popping up that don't have any real direction. (not do snub all Protestant Faiths because many are true followers of the Word).

Catholics are Christians...we are the first Christians starting with St. Peter.

I am not a pagan. I am a Christian.

Hi LulaSimeon,

Nice post! Peter wasn't at the foot of the cross though - it was St. John, who was with the Blessed Mother as described in John 19:26-27.

Edit: Apologies my post has come out in strange format?!

Thank you. Yes you're right he was not at the foot of the Cross. He was too ashamed to get that close to Jesus for his betrayal. I can't remember off hand but didn't he witness from afar?

Edited by Paranoid Android
Fixed quote tags
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi LulaSimeon

The Apostles probably watched the passion from a safe distance - but that's only speculation!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Catholics is a nice relgion, but this poster dosn't know is all the other relgions act like Christions, ie, Russian Oferdox etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Catholics is a nice relgion, but this poster dosn't know is all the other relgions act like Christions, ie, Russian Oferdox etc

How do you mean? I agree mostly, but what do you mean?

Edited by Paranoid Android
Fixed quote tags
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mahatma Gandhi knew god most well

Lucky he was a Lawyer from India otherwise we might have some religious cult spouting Gandhism from obscenely decorated houses of worship :rofl:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This wiki link left out the major schism which occurred during the Council of Nicaea when Yeshua ben Joseph was elected god in minority, and all those against it where eliminated, burned killed or outcast-ed in various ways.

I think you have your history a little skewed. "Major schism"????? "God in minority"??? You do realise the vote was 298-2 in favour of divinity of Jesus. That sounds more like "god in majority" with a very "minor schism". And the two bishops that did not vote for divinity? "Eliminated, burned killed or outcast-ed in various ways"????? No one was eliminated or burned or killed on this matter. They were outcast-ed though - both of them exiled. Of course, it is also worth pointing out that ten years later both of them were welcomed back with open arms, and as far as I know neither of them recanted their views. In short, your statement bears no resemblance to the history of what actually happened at Nicaea.

~ Regards,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my view, anyone who proclaims to be Christian is a Christian, who are we to say what or what not someone is, theres too much judging goin on these days.

For many denominations they seem to think you have to belong to their particular flavour to be a Christian. Like there's this Independant Methodist preacher who keeps coming around to my farm to convert my family (Church of Ireland) to IM to be saved. The Intentions are good but I thought I was saved anyways :wacko::lol::innocent:

Ah sure I enjoy the wee debates where I leave him speachless and he returns a few weeks later after checking what I had said in the Bible :lol:

Im sure we'll find out if any of us are right when we die lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do say that catholics are the only ones to survive today ,the rest are made up religions dating from the sixteenth century ,

fullywired

The term "Christian" is defined as someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Yeah, Catholics are definitely Christians.

Catholicism was the first real organization of Christians, actually. Jesus told Peter to found it, and he did. All the popes are successors of Peter. All other Christian religions broke off from us, not the other way around.

Roman Catholicism did not exist as a standalone organisation until the 11th Century. They do trace their Popes back to Peter, but it is my argument that they are simply choosing to add the early church leaders to their own history to give the impression of continuity. There was no official papacy until the RCC in 1045AD (from memory that's when they and the Eastern Orthodox church split).

I don't have dazdillinjah's level of anti-Catholic sentiment, and believe there are many Christians sitting in Catholic churches. But I also believe there are many Catholics who have been led astray by non-biblical teachings. No single denomination has "the Truth", not even the church I go to. If my church ever started teaching that the only way to God was through their church alone, I would leave and never return. There is only one Christianity, the Christianity that existed in the 1st Century, before any organisation rose up - and that is found in the Bible. Not the teachings of Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, or any other denomination you can name. The head of the church is Jesus alone. In this sense, FW is correct in that catholics (lower-case "c" - the term meaning "universal") are the Christians who can claim continuity through Jesus. But the term "catholics" is not describing an organisation, and so I disagree with FW in that other denominations are not simply inventions from the 16th Century onward - there are many "catholic (universal) Christians" found in many denominations.

~ Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Lula,

I hope you don't mind, but may I ask a few questions about Catholicism that you raise in this post?

I adore The Blessed Virgin as one adores her own mother. We hail her...we do not worship her. I pray the Rosary. The Rosary is Mary's dedication to her son and she asks us to pray it. There are decades and those decades remind of of Jesus' life here on earth, what he preached and what he did for us. It represents her love and devotion to her Son.

I understand that Catholics don't "worship" Mary. But on the matter of the Rosary, why is it so ritualised (pray Lord's prayer x number of times followed by Hail Mary x number of times, etc)? The way I understand Jesus' teachings on the Lord's prayer, the prayer itself is not a "pray like this x number of times", but instead a template for a believer to pray to God - by ritualising it and repeating it and the Hail Mary, it seems that Catholics are doing the exact opposite of the purpose of why Jesus gave the Lord's Prayer in the first place.

The Pope. He is our leader. He is in infallible...but only when preaching on the Faith. He is human and has flaws like anyone else. This starts with St Peter who was with Jesus for several years until Peter actually saw him die on the Cross.

Why is the Pope infallible in matters of faith? As you say, he is human and has flaws like anyone else. But when he teaches from the word of God, he suddenly speaks directly with the infallible authority of God? Is this biblical? What scripture is used to advocate for the infallibility of the Pope in matters of faith?

We need a leader. If you don't have a leader you have all of these other Religions popping up that don't have any real direction. (not do snub all Protestant Faiths because many are true followers of the Word).

A Protestant would counter your comment here by saying that Jesus is our leader, and the direction we take is the one that Jesus commanded us (via the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18). Protestants have leaders within their own church, but no global Pope-style leader. How would you as a Catholic respond to Jesus as leader of the church?

Thanks for taking the time with these questions, Lula :tu:

~ PA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First if you had you read all my posts ,you would have realized that I am an atheist .what I am attempting to do is bring a balance to your obvious anti catholic bias.and I note that you never answered the question as to which sect you belong to .what have you to hide?

fullywired

Nothing to hide Fully & I appreciate this debate ..I began my theology course within a presbyterian church, when I completed it I announced myself as a non-denominational Christian and that was because I learned that all the break-away sects deviated from the true gospel of Jesus

We even have people posting that Mary gave birth to God ??? I mean c'mon ...Almighty God is Almighty God & Jesus is the Son of God

However back to topic ..the Gospel of Jesus never gave provision for hail mary's or a pope nor did the gospel of Jesus condone the Catholic Grand Inquisition era where millions were tortured and murdered

So Im speculating that Catholics are ashamed to call themselves Catholic & call themselves Christians to hide the dirty laundry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do Catholic's continue to always refer to themselves as Christian's ..when they are 2 distinct & different religions ????

It's much like when Israel split into two after the rule of Solomon. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin together became known as Judah, or the Southern Kingdom. Ephraim and the other nine tribes became known as Israel, Ephraim, Samaria, or just the Northern Kingdom. They were both Israelites.

Much with the Catholics and Protestants are both Christians. They just don't agree on leadership and certain teachings and practices. At the root, they are both follow Jesus, are Trinitarian in doctrine, and practice both Baptism and Communion as sacraments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing to hide Fully & I appreciate this debate ..I began my theology course within a presbyterian church, when I completed it I announced myself as a non-denominational Christian and that was because I learned that all the break-away sects deviated from the true gospel of Jesus

Well, denominations didn't arise until the Great Schism of 1054, when the Eastern Orthodox, Greek speaking, Church split from the Roman Catholic, Latin/Germanic speaking, Church. That was the official birth of the Roman Church. Five hundred years later, the Lutherans unsuccessfully attempted to reform the Roman Church and found no other option but to protest their practices and create a new denomination. That is why we are called 'Protestants.'

So Im speculating that Catholics are ashamed to call themselves Catholic & call themselves Christians to hide the dirty laundry

Well, the word Catholic means 'universal', and universe meaning, 'one word.' Thus the Catholic Church not only adheres to one faith, Spirit, Christ, and Father, but also adhere to one unified Church. Suppose that a Catholic Church in your parish began protesting and reforming what the Roman Church commanded, it would no longer be a Catholic Church, but a Protestant denomination. Thus, Catholics just have to take in and deal with all the teachings and practices over the past that they don't necessarily agree in order to keep a unified and effective Christian Church community and leadership.

Edited by Bluefinger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing to hide Fully & I appreciate this debate ..I began my theology course within a presbyterian church, when I completed it I announced myself as a non-denominational Christian and that was because I learned that all the break-away sects deviated from the true gospel of Jesus

We even have people posting that Mary gave birth to God ??? I mean c'mon ...Almighty God is Almighty God & Jesus is the Son of God

However back to topic ..the Gospel of Jesus never gave provision for hail mary's or a pope nor did the gospel of Jesus condone the Catholic Grand Inquisition era where millions were tortured and murdered

So Im speculating that Catholics are ashamed to call themselves Catholic & call themselves Christians to hide the dirty laundry

Christians are always telling me about Christian sentiments and values but my friend from the tone of your post you don't appear to share those values

fullywired

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roman Catholicism did not exist as a standalone organisation until the 11th Century. They do trace their Popes back to Peter, but it is my argument that they are simply choosing to add the early church leaders to their own history to give the impression of continuity. There was no official papacy until the RCC in 1045AD (from memory that's when they and the Eastern Orthodox church split).

I don't have dazdillinjah's level of anti-Catholic sentiment, and believe there are many Christians sitting in Catholic churches. But I also believe there are many Catholics who have been led astray by non-biblical teachings. No single denomination has "the Truth", not even the church I go to. If my church ever started teaching that the only way to God was through their church alone, I would leave and never return. There is only one Christianity, the Christianity that existed in the 1st Century, before any organisation rose up - and that is found in the Bible. Not the teachings of Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, or any other denomination you can name. The head of the church is Jesus alone. In this sense, FW is correct in that catholics (lower-case "c" - the term meaning "universal") are the Christians who can claim continuity through Jesus. But the term "catholics" is not describing an organisation, and so I disagree with FW in that other denominations are not simply inventions from the 16th Century onward - there are many "catholic (universal) Christians" found in many denominations.

~ Regards, PA

I got this from a catholic site so expect a bias

Let’s roll the clock back 50 years. The Catholic church is there but there are no Calvary Chapels. Chuck Smith was alive and probably still Catholic. But he hadn’t yet founded the first Calvary Chapel. It was founded in 1965.

Let’s go back 200 years to the year 1810. The Catholic Church is there. The pope, the bishops, the teachings, you’ll see all those outward signs of the presence of the Catholic Church we mentioned above. But there is something you will not find, no matter how hard you look, in the year 1810. You will not find the Mormon Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It did not exist. It had not been founded yet by the man who would establish it, Joseph Smith. There also were no Jehovah’s Witnesses in the year 1810. Charles Taze Russell, the man who would start that religion had not been born yet. There were no Seventh Day Adventists, because Ellen Gould White had not started that religion yet. There were no Christian Scientists because Mary Baker Eddy would not found that church for another nearly 70 years, in 1879.

But now let’s go further. Let’s go to the year 1510. Again, the Catholic Church was visible alright, a lot like today. It was a very messy time. There were priest scandals, the lay people were not well catechized in the faith, tumult and tension in the Catholic Church. But you can see it in 1510, the pope, the bishops, saints and sinners and everyone in between. But there is something you can’t see in the year 1510. Protestantism. It just did not exist. Luther would not pound his 95 Theses on the door of the church for another seven years. Calvin, Zwingli and many others had not yet begun to break away from the Catholic Church or the Lutheran Church. Think about that. In the year 1509 Protestantism did not exist anywhere in the whole wide world of Christiandom. No Presbyterians. No Baptists. No Methodists. No Lutherans, etc.

And if you keep going back in time you will find that the Catholic Church has always been in existence since the time of Jesus’ resurrection. The Pope, the bishops, the teachings, etc. You find popes making decisions and bishops from across the world sending to Rome or traveling there themselves to get a decision from the Bishop of Rome. Who does not want to belong and trust the Church that Jesus Christ founded. Why would anyone prefer a Church started by a man?

http://bfhu.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/which-church-did-jesus-start/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got this from a catholic site so expect a bias

http://bfhu.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/which-church-did-jesus-start/

Thanks, I did try to take the bias into account. But the thing is, I don't subscribe to any organisation (nor do I think any catholic [lower-case "c" - universal] Christian should subscribe to such). Before the modern denominations, before the Protestant Reformation, before the split between RCC and Eastern Orthodox, before even the Council of Nicaea, there was Christianity based not on organisation but on Christ.

For ease of explaining my actual beliefs, I do tend to describe myself as a "Conservative Evangelical Protestant", and note that I attend an Anglican church. However, this is just a label to identify an approximation of my general beliefs. The fact that I say "protestant" is simply a way to easily identify that I reject (what I see as) unbiblical teachings of the RCC. I fully believe that in the early days of the RCC (and before that between the 4th and 10th Century) they had the best intentions and a system of belief that probably resembled something close to original Christianity. But over the centuries, as the organisation evolved, as is to be expected with humanity, the people behind it started to add new rules to the organisation (some well-meaning, others not so much). Thus when the 16th Century rolled around, the organisation as it existed at that time no longer resembled its early roots. Thus people such as Martin Luther "protested" in order to reform the church back to what it was originally.

But I do not consider myself a member of the "protestants", but rather a member of Jesus' universal church.

I hope that explains my position on the matter. In short, as far as I'm concerned, human organisations are irrelevant - the message of Jesus is not confined by the walls of any dogma presented by an organisation.

All the best,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. Thus people such as Martin Luther "protested" in order to reform the church back to what it was originally.

I don't know what the church was like originally but Martin Luther was not a good example to follow ,he was an anti-semitist as can be seen from the following

On the Jews and Their Lies

Main article: On the Jews and Their Lies In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[13] They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine."[14] The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil **** ..."[15] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[16] afforded no legal protection,[17] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[18] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them."[19]

[edit] Vom Schem Hamphoras

A bit of NAZI philosophy there and this is the guy who reformed the catholic church

fullywired

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing to hide Fully & I appreciate this debate ..I began my theology course within a presbyterian church, when I completed it I announced myself as a non-denominational Christian and that was because I learned that all the break-away sects deviated from the true gospel of Jesus

We even have people posting that Mary gave birth to God ??? I mean c'mon ...Almighty God is Almighty God & Jesus is the Son of God

However back to topic ..the Gospel of Jesus never gave provision for hail mary's or a pope nor did the gospel of Jesus condone the Catholic Grand Inquisition era where millions were tortured and murdered

So Im speculating that Catholics are ashamed to call themselves Catholic & call themselves Christians to hide the dirty laundry

And what, exactly, is the Gospel of Jesus? There's Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The Gospels do mention the Pope, although they didn't call it that. Peter was the first Pope.

Do other Christian religions believe that Jesus is God? Because Catholics believe firmly in the idea that Jesus is God. It says in the Bible, clear as day, that Mary gave birth to Jesus. Following simple logic, Mary gave birth to God.

Yeah, The Inquisition was awful. WE'RE SORRY. It was a very large mistake on the part of the Church. Like I said before, Catholics are the dictionary.com DEFINITION of Christians. Seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know what the church was like originally but Martin Luther was not a good example to follow ,he was an anti-semitist as can be seen from the following

I am aware of Martin Luther's shortcomings. As a pivotal figure in the reformation of Christianity, I do hold respect for Luther. But that's as far as my respect goes. I do not respect Luther for his other views, including his anti-Semitism. Thankfully I have never claimed to be a follower of Luther....

Best wishes, FW :tu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi PA,

I like your style and the way you profess your faith and think you are a great diplomat when it comes to talking about Christianity :tu: . I hope you don't mind me contesting a few of your points with regard to the Catholic churches lineage and how we can trace it back. We can go back further than the First Council of Nicaea-325 AD. St. Ignatius of Antioch, (in Syria, the year 50 at Rome between 98 and 110) Ignatius of Antioch was the second bishop of Antioch after St Peter, martyred under the Emperor Trajan around 110 A.D., says: "Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

This is the first use of the term, "Catholic" by the Early Church Fathers, but it is not the last... It is important to note; however, that he is not writing specifically about the Bishop of Rome (i.e. the Pope), but rather bishops in general.

Here is a collection of writings of the Early Church Fathers about the Catholic Church, some prior to Nicaea. The term "Catholic Church" was in common use long before the Council of Nicaea.

Edit: link broken here is new one (apologies)

http://catholicbygra...of-antioch.html

Edited by Star of the Sea
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do Catholic's continue to always refer to themselves as Christian's ..when they are 2 distinct & different religions ????

wtf? :blink::wacko::alien::ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.