Fluoridegate

[Copasetic]

The honorable, highly hallowed need-to-know is sadly absent from so many people.

You can say that again. Meet Dunning and Kruger.

[regeneratia]

"If this stuff gets out into the air, it's a pollutant; if it gets into the river, it's a pollutant; if it gets into the lake it's a pollutant; but if it goes right into your drinking water system, it's not a pollutant. That's amazing..." - Dr. Hirzy

Richard says he always adds, " It's more than amazing, it's illogical and irrational."

Edited February 21, 2011 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

Yes, clearly I own a molecular biology supply company that supplies mostly people doing cancer research, am in medical school (after various other degrees in other fields), volunteer at one of the best (arguably the best) Children's hospitals in the world in the oncology department, have worked in protein and microbial pathogenesis research and spend time volunteering to furthers other's educations because I want to give people "death via cancer" and "keep them stupid".....Grow up.

I am pretty grown up, half century, but I love you reflecting youth on me. It feels great!! Thank you so much for the compliment.

I have no way of knowing if you tell the truth or not, so I just don't pass judgement on what you say. As you should me. The best anyone of us can do is do the research on our own. I have done this for myself. And you have done this, however slanted it might be, for everyone else. How nice of you!

But again, I will not believe you. I believe what I read, and in my own assessments of the situation.

Ridicule away, for I know that you need to to make yourself FEEL bigger. I encourage your "feel good" actions.

Edited February 21, 2011 by regeneratia

[+DieChecker]

YAY! When I appealed to the man who manages the fluoride in this city, he said it was a good time to talk about it because the fluoride had just doubled in price, which concerned him. So I told him all he has to do, without public knowledge, is to drop the fluoride amount in the tap water as he wished. That he had the autonomy to be able to do this without much public awareness. I told him I would be happy if he did something like that, but would never asked if he did.

I'm pretty sure what you are describing here is some kind of crime. You're influencing a pubilc official to change a public utility setting without knowledge or input from the public. You should do this right and print out a bucket load of reports about other cities changing their floridated water and present it at a city council meeting, like everyone else has to, to get things changed. If your arguement is strong enough then the Council will see the wisdom and pass a vote.

[ChewiesArmy]

When/how did flouride become a known cause of ADHD? As far as I have read...nobody knows the cause of ADHD.

Anyway, if so many people have a problem with fluoride added to the water supply whether it's harmful or not, then it should simply be removed. The people who would like fluoridated water could get a fluoridator supplied by the municipal water company, while the others can enjoy cleaner water.

There, case solved...is my check in the mail?

[Copasetic]

I am pretty grown up, half century, but I love you reflecting youth on me. It feels great!! Thank you so much for the compliment.

I have no way of knowing if you tell the truth or not, so I just don't pass judgement on what you say. As you should me. The best anyone of us can do is do the research on our own. I have done this for myself. And you have done this, however slanted it might be, for everyone else. How nice of you!

But again, I will not believe you. I believe what I read, and in my own assessments of the situation.

Ridicule away, for I know that you need to to make yourself FEEL bigger. I encourage your "feel good" actions.

Wait....Uhh you just said that I want everyone to be stupid and die of cancer because I disagreed with you....And then you are telling me I'm projecting my "youth" on you?

The world works in mysterious ways I suppose.

By the way, where did you do all this research? Can you name the research engines you used? I don't mean Google, but real research engines...Like EBSCOhost etc.

[danielost]

floride is a posion.

[Flash Of Phantasm]

Oh, so I have ADHD because I drink tap?

Aw, what the SHITTERS?!

[Copasetic]

floride is a posion.

So is chlorine, sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron......water.....What's your point?

[FurthurBB]

Did it cross your mind that enamel depth is different from one person to the next and it pretty much dependent on genetics, among other things?

Yes, exactly the point I was trying to make. I am not impressed with your anecdotal evidence.

[Emma_Acid]

Do you do searches for yourself?

I take it then you don't have any academic research to back it up?

Although the burden of proof is on you, logically-speaking, of course you don't have to provide evidence. All that means is that no-one here apart from the uber-credulous will be interested in anything you have to say anymore, rendering your comments a bit redundant don't you think?

[The Silver Thong]

http://www.acu-cell.com/fcl.html

[regeneratia]

I am wondering WHY, Copassstic, you spend so much of your time debunking questions about the fluoridation of tap water. What is in this for you? Why so much of your time taken to make sure that people believe that they are not drinking a toxin, a carcinogin?

I mean, you really DO spend a lot of time and effort to convince people that they are not drinking poison water. Why?

[regeneratia]

I take it then you don't have any academic research to back it up?

Although the burden of proof is on you, logically-speaking, of course you don't have to provide evidence. All that means is that no-one here apart from the uber-credulous will be interested in anything you have to say anymore, rendering your comments a bit redundant don't you think?

I take it you don't want to investigate yourself. I am not here to prove anything to you. Go look it up for yourself. It is out there. I will not waste my time with people, including you, who really don't care one way or the other about this topic, and merely discuss for sport.

They say that the journey is more important than the destination.

So I translate that to mean, with regards to this topic, that you will find out more about this if you do your own search.

I have already provided links. I will not do it again.

Believe what you like. I suspect your thinking will not be generous towards me. Why waste my time on something you are not going to look at?

I feel NO burden of proof whatsoever. Needless to say, it is not ON me.

Edited February 21, 2011 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

Wait....Uhh you just said that I want everyone to be stupid and die of cancer because I disagreed with you....And then you are telling me I'm projecting my "youth" on you?

The world works in mysterious ways I suppose.

By the way, where did you do all this research? Can you name the research engines you used? I don't mean Google, but real research engines...Like EBSCOhost etc.

Nope, honey, your paraphrase is inaccurate. Reread.

[regeneratia]

When/how did flouride become a known cause of ADHD? As far as I have read...nobody knows the cause of ADHD.

Anyway, if so many people have a problem with fluoride added to the water supply whether it's harmful or not, then it should simply be removed. The people who would like fluoridated water could get a fluoridator supplied by the municipal water company, while the others can enjoy cleaner water.

There, case solved...is my check in the mail?

You are assuming that I am the one who is supposed to supply you with that information? And you think that if I don't provide it, it doesn't exist?

Think again.

The practice of fluoridating water came before fluoridated toothpaste and fluoride mouthwashes. Since fluoride for tap water is getting more expensive, it stands to reason that there should be cheaper ways to protect the teeth.

Again, I repeat:

Why swallow the stuff if it is only good topically? What does the daily wash and digestive processing and the excretion of fluoride do to the soft tissues of the body, if it is so effective against the hardest substance in the body? What does fluoride do when you daily breathe in the fluoridated water vapors in a shower? What does it do to the alveoli of the lung if you bathe them daily with fluoridated water vapors? I can assure you, there is no research for that, while it is a great issue that should be addressed. What does it do to the tender cells and filtering processes of the kidneys?

Edited February 21, 2011 by regeneratia

[danielost]

So is chlorine, sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron......water.....What's your point?

funny you should mention chlorine, it and idodine are in the same family as fluoride. fluoride is the most dangeress and it is put in toothpaste and drinking water. iodine is the least dangeress and you need a license to get and use it.

[aquatus1]

You are assuming that I am the one who is supposed to supply you with that information? And you think that if I don't provide it, it doesn't exist?

Think again.

No, actually, he had it right.

This is a discussion forum. You bring a claim to the table. You support the claim. No one is under any onus to believe you without support. If you do not support your opinion with honest-to-goodness evidence, then what you have is not even an opinion; it's just a postulate.

[+DieChecker]

I don't think I have seen anything convincing that points to the recommeded levels of floridation in water being unsafe. Sure, if you drink like 15 gallons of the floridated tap water inside of one day, you will get a much higher dose, but who drinks that much water? Personnally, I just drink about 4 glasses a day.

Most of the studies I've seen that are used against floridated water do not come at the issue head on because they know that they will not find the data they want, so they have to end run around the issue and point out things like how poisonous floride is as a naked element.

I agree that it should just be added at home if someone needs it and there is really no reason to put it in the water. I suspect it was intended to allow the poorest people to have some chance at keeping their teeth, but if those people don't brush or go to the dentist (And I did not when I was dirt poor... go to the dentist that is), they will have bad teeth anyway.

I'm tired of people giving their kids a 6 pack of soda a day and then saying that the Government is trying to ruin their kids teeth.

[The Silver Thong]

I think this boils down to self medication or government enforced medication. Is fluoride good or bad, yes and no. However it's as simple as do we use it or not. I can personally take as much fluoride as I want, with it forced into my water I no longer have that choice my taxes go to. Get it out of the water as a public service and let parents decide how much fluoride there kids need.

[Copasetic]

I don't think I have seen anything convincing that points to the recommeded levels of floridation in water being unsafe. Sure, if you drink like 15 gallons of the floridated tap water inside of one day, you will get a much higher dose, but who drinks that much water? Personnally, I just drink about 4 glasses a day.

Most of the studies I've seen that are used against floridated water do not come at the issue head on because they know that they will not find the data they want, so they have to end run around the issue and point out things like how poisonous floride is as a naked element.

I agree that it should just be added at home if someone needs it and there is really no reason to put it in the water. I suspect it was intended to allow the poorest people to have some chance at keeping their teeth, but if those people don't brush or go to the dentist (And I did not when I was dirt poor... go to the dentist that is), they will have bad teeth anyway.

I'm tired of people giving their kids a 6 pack of soda a day and then saying that the Government is trying to ruin their kids teeth.

Exactly. It is an easy way to reduce dental carries. From a cost-benefit public health standpoint its a wise decision.

Its no different than fortifying your milk with vitamin D or having all pregnant women take prenatal vitamins high in folate. Sure you could test everyone pregnant woman for the genetic markers for the 5 or so mutations which lead to folate-deficient defects (neural tube defects), but its not efficient and its not cheap. The genetic tests are expensive and not everyone would be able to afford them, let alone get insurance companies to pay for them.

Its far easier to have all pregnant women take prenatals with folate. Is it perfect? Of course not, neural tube defects still occur (sometimes unrelated to folate too might I add), but the two alternatives would see a higher number of NTDs than the current solution. Likewise, a small percentage of people (outside the bell curve) have an adverse reaction to too much fluoride exposure and some people still get cavities (I've never had one!). Cost wise, and in reduction to dental expenditures and oral hygiene its certainly a great benefit (compare dental caries in parts of the world where fluoride is not available to those where fluoridated water and toothpaste are used).

All of public health is a numbers game. It has to be, because of individual variation you can't have one solution for everyone. You have find a common distribution, which you can find affordable treatment for and deal with the outliers on an individual basis.

One day, hopefully our technology evolves enough (in both cost and function) that a small sample of blood taken at the time your born will let us know how and when to treat medical or potential conditions for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, we're not there yet.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Copasetic

[danielost]

I don't think I have seen anything convincing that points to the recommeded levels of floridation in water being unsafe. Sure, if you drink like 15 gallons of the floridated tap water inside of one day, you will get a much higher dose, but who drinks that much water? Personnally, I just drink about 4 glasses a day.

Most of the studies I've seen that are used against floridated water do not come at the issue head on because they know that they will not find the data they want, so they have to end run around the issue and point out things like how poisonous floride is as a naked element.

I agree that it should just be added at home if someone needs it and there is really no reason to put it in the water. I suspect it was intended to allow the poorest people to have some chance at keeping their teeth, but if those people don't brush or go to the dentist (And I did not when I was dirt poor... go to the dentist that is), they will have bad teeth anyway.

I'm tired of people giving their kids a 6 pack of soda a day and then saying that the Government is trying to ruin their kids teeth.

if you drank 15 gallons of water, i dont think you would need to worry about floride being in it, since the water would posion itself.

[Lilly]

...I feel NO burden of proof whatsoever. Needless to say, it is not ON me.

Fine, but then no one else is likely to *feel* that your claim is worth anything. Most reasonably thinking people will desire supporting evidence.

Emma Acid was spot on when she said: "Although the burden of proof is on you, logically-speaking, of course you don't have to provide evidence. All that means is that no-one here apart from the uber-credulous will be interested in anything you have to say anymore, rendering your comments a bit redundant don't you think?"

[regeneratia]

I am not asking people to believe me. For some reason, there are people here that are missing the point of my posts.

My point is that people should investigate this issue for themselves, and not listen to clowns like me and Copesetic and LILLY.

Lilly, who are you trying to convince here? Yourself, me, or everyone else? I think it would be nice to know your motivations.

[Lilly]

My point is that people should investigate this issue for themselves, and not listen to clowns like me and Copesetic and LILLY.

Lilly, who are you trying to convince here? Yourself, me, or everyone else? I think it would be nice to know your motivations.

First, If you wish to view yourself as a "clown" that's fine. However, please do not place that label on others.

My "motivation" is to moderate a thread where discussion has broken down to: 'What I'm saying is right and I don't have to support my argument with any evidence'. Such does little to bolster your argument and tends to be disruptive to civil discussion. I hope this clarifies my position and intent.