Patient without a heartbeat -- back to life

[Karlis]

Arun Bhasin, 53, was rushed into hospital after being found unconscious in the street in temperatures of -10C. But as he was being wheeled in, he went into cardiac arrest and was just minutes from death.By pure luck, he’d been taken to the Croydon University Hospital – home to two of the country’s top experts in resuscitation. Read more...

[Copasetic]

Neat story. The human body's response to extreme cold at the life-death interface has some really neat applications for clinical medicine.

[Moonshine]

I remember hearing something that sometimes some people can make their heartbeat so slow that it's undetectable from the..Umm.. Monitor things!

[lightly]

i used to be able to slow my heart rate by relaxing and breathing a certain way. Probably still could.

For those who haven't seen this story.....

Former vice president Dick Cheney now has no pulse; Heart pump like artificial heart

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2011/01/05/2011-01-05_mechanical_heart_pumps_like_dick_cheneys_are_a_lifesaver_for_many.html

[ShadowSot]

i used to be able to slow my heart rate by relaxing and breathing a certain way. Probably still could.

For those who haven't seen this story.....

Former vice president Dick Cheney now has no pulse; Heart pump like artificial heart

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2011/01/05/2011-01-05_mechanical_heart_pumps_like_dick_cheneys_are_a_lifesaver_for_many.html

A little more like Darth Vader every day.

[lightly]

He gives me the creeps... he seems truly monstrous to me.

[d e v i c e]

These CPR machines sound like a must for A&E units. Amazing. I wonder if he remembers anything while he was dead?

[Moonshine]

i used to be able to slow my heart rate by relaxing and breathing a certain way. Probably still could.

For those who haven't seen this story.....

Former vice president Dick Cheney now has no pulse; Heart pump like artificial heart

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2011/01/05/2011-01-05_mechanical_heart_pumps_like_dick_cheneys_are_a_lifesaver_for_many.html

That's pretty interesting. Did you learn a certain technique to do it?

A little more like Darth Vader every day.

You made me chuckle ^-^.

[user107026]

he wasent brought back from the dead because once your dead your dead nothing will bring you back these claims are ludicrous lol

[Fluffybunny]

he wasent brought back from the dead because once your dead your dead nothing will bring you back these claims are ludicrous lol

Exactly what medical training do you have?

[user107026]

Exactly what medical training do you have?

i'm a doctor

[d e v i c e]

Im not a doctor but once your heart stops youre dead arn't you? So its interesting; at what point can we say, yes, he/she is now pronounced dead. When they slam the lid on the coffin? Hmmm, food for thought.

[Odds]

Fluffybunny, on 18 January 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:

Exactly what medical training do you have?

i'm a doctor

No offence, but judging from the amount of grammatical errors in that (original) sentence alone, i highly doubt that.

As for the story, i seriously hope these new CPR machines become common place in hospitals. It would take the burdon off the doctors and give the patient's chance of survival a serious boost.

Edited January 17, 2011 by odds022

[user107026]

Im not a doctor but once your heart stops youre dead arn't you? So its interesting; at what point can we say, yes, he/she is now pronounced dead. When they slam the lid on the coffin? Hmmm, food for thought.

when your heart stops and your brain stops fuctioning then your dead that mans brain was still functioning therefore he wasent dead

[Fluffybunny]

i'm a doctor

I find that very difficult to believe based on your response. Sounds like something a high schooler would say, not an MD.

So doc, where did you do your training? What was your specialty?

Perhaps you can run through a cold water recovery ACLS protocol to show you know how to take care of those unfortunate souls that are unlucky enough to find themselves on your table...

No cutting and pasting, you should know this material forward and back...

[mattavich123]

Fluffybunny, his temperature was below freezing.

When people have heart transplants they are placed in a tub full of ice to bring their temperature very low. While the body temp is so low doctors can physically remove the heart for a long time in terms of being without a heart.

When a patient is brain dead, they are, dead. This man still had oxygen in his brain to allow him to live and for the function of the brain to be in essence, suspended and sustained.

[Fluffybunny]

Fluffybunny, his temperature was below freezing.

When people have heart transplants they are placed in a tub full of ice to bring their temperature very low. While the body temp is so low doctors can physically remove the heart for a long time in terms of being without a heart.

When a patient is brain dead, they are, dead. This man still had oxygen in his brain to allow him to live and for the function of the brain to be in essence, suspended and sustained.

Even during a transplant(i.e. heart/lung), a heart lung machine is used in order to keep the brain and other organs oxygenated. The cold temps slow cellular degradation, but do not halt it completely. I understand the article rather well, the claims of being a doctor are what are bothering me.

As a medic I have dealt with many cold water drownings, and had to work them for hours on end...

[Fluffybunny]

Im not a doctor but once your heart stops youre dead arn't you? So its interesting; at what point can we say, yes, he/she is now pronounced dead. When they slam the lid on the coffin? Hmmm, food for thought.

No, your hear can stop for several minutes and you can still be alive. You won't be conscious during that time, but you will be alive. I have shocked many patients who have been without an effective heartbeart(v-fib) for several minutes and had them come back to consciousness and have their heart start working normally. For example, a person who gets electrocuted and has their heart stopped as a result. Now there is a different protocol where you do a couple minutes of CPR to get that heart muscle nice and oxygenated so that you have the best luck to shock the heart into a good rhythm asap.

Adults who undergo cardiac arrest(there are many reasons why that can happen) and then collapse already have oxygen in their blood...which is already in their organs doing what it is supposed to do. Over the course of a few minutes a persons heart can be stopped and yet still a tiny bit of oxygen is getting to important organs. Without chest compressions to circulate that oxygenated blood, bad things start to build up in the body(acids), and after 4-5 minutes of no circulation, brain damage will begin to occur, the longer the delay in compressions, the less chance that person has in surviving. After about ten minutes of a person not having a heart beat(nor chest compressions) the likelihood of them surviving is near zero.

Doing those chest compressions allows for oxygenated blood to get transported to the organs, and it buys time to do other medical interventions while saving brain and organ tissue.

So, yeah...your heart can stop briefly and still be alive...however, allowing the brain to be damaged by lack of oxygen is a different matter.

[Odds]

Evilution13, on 18 January 2011 - 01:25 AM, said:

Im not a doctor but once your heart stops youre dead arn't you? So its interesting; at what point can we say, yes, he/she is now pronounced dead. When they slam the lid on the coffin? Hmmm, food for thought.

Here's a quick run down of the different stages/definitions of death.

Clinical Death:

No breathing, no circulation, and no brain activity characterize clinical death. But that's only half. The other side, the most integral part which separates clinical death from somatic death, is that clinical death begins at the very onset of the symptoms of death, say right after cardiac arrest has cause the heart to stop. It lasts for about four minutes, and it is the interval in which life can be brought back through CPR. After a short few minutes, death is permanent, because the state of the body has gone from clinical death to...

Brain Death:

A brain deprived of oxygen survives for 3 to 7 minutes, making it the first organ to die when circulation or respiration ceases or is impeded, whatever the cause of trouble may be. After a few minutes, the brain can't be brought back to life by any means available today. This is brain death, and it's the reason why clinical death, the period in which a person can be resuscitated, is so short. Once the brain goes, the heart doesn't know how to pump and the lungs don't know how to breath.

Somatic death:

Eventually an organism ceases to be in the process of dying and proceeds to be dead. Somatic death is the death-- the permanent, irreversible death-- of an organism as a whole. In humans it is usually after brain death, as the other vital organs are unable to function without the brain. With modern technology, though, one can be brain dead but still have circulation and respiration artificially. In such a case one isn't somatically dead because other organs are still alive. Once artificial support is removed somatic death occurs, because the person is then entirely and completely inactive with regard to brain, circulation, and respiration.

[lightly]

lightly, on 16 January 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

i used to be able to slow my heart rate by relaxing and breathing a certain way. Probably still could.

That's pretty interesting. Did you learn a certain technique to do it?

Hi Moonshine, i used to practice meditation, part of which was being aware of breathing, ... i discovered , after relaxing and slow breathing for a bit, that if i paused at the end of exhales , .. i could feel the pumping of my heart slow down. I can lower my blood pressure too

... Aren't people pronounced clinically dead all the time.. and then resuscitated ?

[xXHellkittiesXx]

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on forums.

[d e v i c e]

I see. Death occurs once the brain has ceased to function due to oxygen deprivation. I wonder if theres a way to re-oxygenate the brain after its died? Mind you, you'd probably be quite brain damaged. Or would you? Hmmmm.

[ShadowSot]

I see. Death occurs once the brain has ceased to function due to oxygen deprivation. I wonder if theres a way to re-oxygenate the brain after its died? Mind you, you'd probably be quite brain damaged. Or would you? Hmmmm.

What generally happens is brain damage, yes. The brain needs a constant oxegen supply, brain damage starts to set in once the oxygen supply is shut off.

[Fluffybunny]

I see. Death occurs once the brain has ceased to function due to oxygen deprivation. I wonder if theres a way to re-oxygenate the brain after its died? Mind you, you'd probably be quite brain damaged. Or would you? Hmmmm.

There are times during a stroke(for example) where an area of the brain that has been going without oxygen for a while can all of a sudden get the oxygen it needs because of some kind of medical intervention(like clot busting drugs(TPA) or surgery to stop a bleed). If caught quickly enough there are times where the effects are not permanent, but it just depends on tons of factors.

Some people are able to recover from a stroke with minimal physical problems, but sometimes people do not make it to the hospital quick enough(or the damage is too severe) and the physical damage to the brain is permanent. The damage can range from difficulty speaking/understanding language, to paralysis or weakness on one side of the body.

So, no you wouldn't be able to go to the cemetery and find the freshest cadaver and pump his head full of oxygen(combined with the Frankenstein lightening bolt thingy) and end up with a decent zombie....once those brain cells start breaking down, it just doesn't get better. Who knows, in a couple hundred years we may be able to do things we just never dreamed of. Our definition of death has changed over the years, and I think it will continue to do so as our science gets more advanced.

[d e v i c e]

Lol. That's really interesting. Thanks Fluffybunny.