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Karlis

Vote to Repeal Obamacare Passes 245-189

211 posts in this topic

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FurthurBB

BR, the problem is that what the government plan does is mandate that we must buy health insurance from an independantly owned, for-profit insurance company. The other thing the bill did was to mandate certain coverages making operational costs for insurance companies sky-rocket. That cost, of course is shifted to the consumer. So all our "healthcare reform" does is guarantee profit for big industry, not improved or universal healthcare for all.

Well, they also mandate that we buy auto insurance from an independently owned for-profit insurance company and that has not been ruled unconstitutional. The real issue is that the US government should be the large purchasing power to get us universal health insurance, but the republicans wouldn't go for that.

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Copasetic

Well, they also mandate that we buy auto insurance from an independently owned for-profit insurance company and that has not been ruled unconstitutional. The real issue is that the US government should be the large purchasing power to get us universal health insurance, but the republicans wouldn't go for that.

Wait for it....Wait for it.....

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questionmark

wrong on several accounts. i do pay taxes, and i payed my taxes when i worked. and normal people dont pay taxes just the rich.

Ah, so you do let the government do what it wants with your money... so why the squealing?

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questionmark

I think from what I have read here, the corporate lobbyists have shafted you again. The irony seems to be that the right wing is selling you this line as a favour to the people.

Br Cornelius

They always do, and besides a dinner for some representatives they can be sure to get (legal or illegal) support for their campaigns, naturally the individual voter...even if majority, does not matter in the grand scheme of things. That is the essence of the American Coruptocracy.

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Wickian

so now the house vote is none important, we are ruled from the supreme court.

It's a pointless vote because the other two branches of the government are controlled by Democrats. The only real hope there is to get the mandate removed(that's what I'm mainly concerned about) is through the Supreme Court.

That's the only way unless the Republicans have another sweeping victory in two years anyway.

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preacherman76

I think from what I have read here, the corporate lobbyists have shafted you again. The irony seems to be that the right wing is selling you this line as a favour to the people.

Br Cornelius

Right wing? The Dems passed this bill without a single republican. They could have passed what ever they wanted to BR. For those who believe in universal health care, thier own people sold them out.

In my opinion universal health care isnt the answer anyway. We need to drop state regulations so insurance companies can operate in more then one state. Open the compitition. Then form not for profit insurance companies run by the people, which currently isnt allowed.

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BlindMessiah

Yay. Let's go back to letting our sick go into poverty or die. It's amazingly outrageous how these pretentious b******* can work so self-righteously against Health care reform. I know a woman that has had to spend her life savings, I've been involved in fund raisers for her and raised over ten thousand dollars, and she still can't afford her cancer treatment all because the *******s in the insurance industry won't cover her. And these people stand up to say aye and she might lose what little chance she has left. This isn't for the people. They're either doing this to score points with their brainwashed constituents or because they're in the pockets of the insurance companies. Either way, they've been in office for a few weeks and they're wrecking up the progress of the last two years work on health care reform.

Edited by BlindMessiah

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preacherman76

That might have been realistic in 1905, however there are many acute conditions which require the use of sophisticated and expensive medical equipment and tests. Would you like to pay out of pocket for the chest X-rays to rule pneumonia out for your kids? Or maybe you'd love to pay out of pocket for T2-MRI to locate an aneurysm? How about we even the have the hospitals require you to pay up front before you get these tests?

Its seems to me (not you necessarily) that most people weighing on this health care dilemma have very little understanding of medicine or health care.....

1905? It was possible right up till they invented medicare. The only reason a xray is so expensive is cause government started flipping the bill. Same with college.

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preacherman76

Yay. Let's go back to letting our sick go into poverty or die. It's amazingly outrageous how these pretentious b******* can work so self-righteously against Health care reform. I know a woman that has had to spend her life savings, I've been involved in fund raisers for her and raised over ten thousand dollars, and she still can't afford her cancer treatment all because the *******s in the insurance industry won't cover her. And these people stand up to say aye and she might lose what little chance she has left. This isn't for the people. They're either doing this to score points with their brainwashed constituents or because they're in the pockets of the insurance companies. Either way, they've been in office for a few weeks and they're wrecking up the progress of the last two years work on health care reform.

MMM how does forcing people to buy health care they cant afford bringing them prosperity?

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BlindMessiah

MMM how does forcing people to buy health care they cant afford bringing them prosperity?

People can afford health care. What they can't afford is out of pocket medical costs when insurance companies won't cover them their entire lives because of a preexisting condition.

Edited by BlindMessiah

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Br Cornelius

MMM how does forcing people to buy health care they cant afford bringing them prosperity?

As I understand it - the attempt was to introduce a National Insurance as a new tier of cover, administered by the Government on a not for profit basis. The Lobbyists blocked this and it became for profit (profit means higher costs).

This is how it works in Britain and it is reputed to be one of the most cost effective methods in the world (despite the propaganda telling you otherwise). The main issue it faces is an ageing population and the advances in medical treatment which means costs are ever spiralling upwards. This inevitably leads to rationalisation of what services are possible for everyone. However this is a problem faced by all developed countries -including America - it will just effect you worse because of your increased cost base. It is a choice between good health care for everyone or excellent health care for the rich and rubbish for everyone else. Remember that the super rich who set the agenda never have to face the consequences of their actions as they will always have access to private health care.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Copasetic

1905? It was possible right up till they invented medicare. The only reason a xray is so expensive is cause government started flipping the bill. Same with college.

Thank you Preacherman, for so beautifully proving my point.....

Its seems to me (not you necessarily) that most people weighing on this health care dilemma have very little understanding of medicine or health care.....

Bravo, Bravo, well done sir! :tu:

So X-rays are only expensive because the government started flipping the bill? Why don't you enlighten us all Preacherman, on the production of X-ray machines, their power usage, the computer-interfaces needed to work them, amount of training radiology technologists need, the amount of years and training a radiologist needs (you know to read the X-ray) and when you're done with that, maybe you can enlighten us heathens and socialists on MRIs and CTs as well?

No offense Preacherman, I've seen your posts on both science and medicine before. That you should have any input that might affect the heath care of my children is a rather scary thought. If their medical care had to come from you or a;

AB_ColumbianGroundSquirrel02.jpg

I would, well, Let's just say I would wait to hear what the little furry guy had to say.....

Edited by Copasetic

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Heru

That might have been realistic in 1905, however there are many acute conditions which require the use of sophisticated and expensive medical equipment and tests. Would you like to pay out of pocket for the chest X-rays to rule pneumonia out for your kids? Or maybe you'd love to pay out of pocket for T2-MRI to locate an aneurysm? How about we even the have the hospitals require you to pay up front before you get these tests?

Its seems to me (not you necessarily) that most people weighing on this health care dilemma have very little understanding of medicine or health care.....

Wouldnt that be part of the medical costs. How much do you think the maintainance of those machines have been inflated. Or do you realy think hospitals pay 15 dollars for a kleenx box. Yes some hospitals charge for everything, ive heard some charge for a tv in your room, how long do you think it takes to pay off a cheap tv.

They charge rediculous prices cause they can. Ever notice that if you tell the reciptionist you dont have insurance they change your bill, considerably lower. You can also make payments. The one my wife goes to, they will even lower your bill if you pay up front.

Health care doesnt have to cost as much as it does. Me personaly i think medical research should get funds like space exploration and weapons. Oh but wait we do fund medical researches with our tax dollars yet were told our drugs are high due to research costs. And they remain high sorta like Toll roads (my state fell for the lie, once its paid off the tolls will be taken down).

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Heru

Thank you Preacherman, for so beautifully proving my point.....

Bravo, Bravo, well done sir! :tu:

So X-rays are only expensive because the government started flipping the bill? Why don't you enlighten us all Preacherman, on the production of X-ray machines, their power usage, the computer-interfaces needed to work them, amount of training radiology technologists need, the amount of years and training a radiologist needs (you know to read the X-ray) and when you're done with that, maybe you can enlighten us heathens and socialists on MRIs and CTs as well?

No offense Preacherman, I've seen your posts on both science and medicine before. That you should have any input that might affect the heath care of my children is a rather scary thought. If their medical care had to come from you or a;

AB_ColumbianGroundSquirrel02.jpg

I would, well, Let's just say I would wait to hear what the little furry guy had to say.....

How much did those scanners in the airport cost? So you honestly think an x-ray machine that a hospital has had for years still hasnt been paid off, or that maintanance costs that much?

Those prices are inflated to get money from the insurance companys. Most medical facilities will knock off a huge chunk of your bill if they know you dont have insurance.

Why not reform medical lawsuits, why not reform over priced medical supplies, why not reform inflated prices for the consumer. Demanding everyone to pay a middle man to pay your hospital bills is bs.

This bill doesnt help anyone. It just makes more people dependant. If you give power back to the people when it comes to there medical costs, you will see that change voters wanted. Giving a market full control over medical care( health care bill) you will never be able to fund your own medical costs, the prices will go thru the roof. And you still will be at the mercy of the same people who you blame (health insurance companys) for out of control health care.

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Copasetic

How much did those scanners in the airport cost? So you honestly think an x-ray machine that a hospital has had for years still hasnt been paid off, or that maintanance costs that much?

Maybe you'd like to answer for Preacherman, as I doubt he will answer;

So X-rays are only expensive because the government started flipping the bill? Why don't you enlighten us all Preacherman, on the production of X-ray machines, their power usage, the computer-interfaces needed to work them, amount of training radiology technologists need, the amount of years and training a radiologist needs (you know to read the X-ray) and when you're done with that, maybe you can enlighten us heathens and socialists on MRIs and CTs as well?

Those prices are inflated to get money from the insurance companys. Most medical facilities will knock off a huge chunk of your bill if they know you dont have insurance.

Right, and you think that "medical facilities" knocking off the cost of your bill just magically absorb the cost of said bill? No really, lets here where you think this bill goes....

Why not reform medical lawsuits, why not reform over priced medical supplies, why not reform inflated prices for the consumer. Demanding everyone to pay a middle man to pay your hospital bills is bs.

I am all for reforming "medical lawsuits" and "over priced medical supplies". Like I've pointed out before, this was really insurance reform, not health care reform.

This bill doesnt help anyone. It just makes more people dependant. If you give power back to the people when it comes to there medical costs, you will see that change voters wanted. Giving a market full control over medical care( health care bill) you will never be able to fund your own medical costs, the prices will go thru the roof. And you still will be at the mercy of the same people who you blame (health insurance companys) for out of control health care.

Like my friend the ground squirrel pointed out, I'd rather the "power of health care" not be in the hands of "the people"--Whom have little, if any, health literacy.

Here's some free advice Heru, you probably shouldn't assume "who people blame" for those soaring health care costs. Jumping on the "he-must-be-a-liberal-out-to-get-me" bandwagon parroted by Glenn Beck and others because I pointed out the inefficacy of most peoples knowledge regarding the health care system and medicine in general is only bound to make an ass out of you (you know from assume)

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Startraveler
As its first major act' date=' the new Republican majority in the House of Representatives voted today on a bill promising the complete repeal of Obamacare. The bill passed with a unanimous Republican vote along with the support of three House Democrats, proving that the demand to repeal Obamacare is a real, bipartisan fight that will lead to a serious debate in the Senate. [/quote']

Meanwhile, today the shift from planning health insurance exchanges (a step featured in this thread) to actually establishing them kicked off with the announcement that states may now start applying for Level One or Level Two Establishment Grants. 48 states and D.C. received initial exchange planning grants last fall, and now some are ready to start thinking about the next step. Implementation marches on in the states.

Edited by Startraveler

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conspiracybeliever

Meanwhile, today the shift from planning health insurance exchanges (a step featured in this thread) to actually establishing them kicked off with the announcement that states may now start applying for Level One or Level Two Establishment Grants. 48 states and D.C. received initial exchange planning grants last fall, and now some are ready to start thinking about the next step. Implementation marches on in the states.

:tu:

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danielost

Daniel, are you one of the rich people that you mention? How do you work out the difference between normal people and rich people?

i am not the one who used the word normal. i think most people rich or poor are normal. we all pay taxes in one way or another.

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Copasetic

i am not the one who used the word normal. i think most people rich or poor are normal. we all pay taxes in one way or another.

Can you pass that please? I'd like to try some.

Edited by Copasetic

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ohio traveler

What's with the squirrel ?

Am I going to have to pay for his free health care too ?

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conspiracybeliever

i am not the one who used the word normal. i think most people rich or poor are normal. we all pay taxes in one way or another.

That's not what you said earlier in the thread. You said only the rich pay taxes.

Post #20:

wrong on several accounts. i do pay taxes, and i payed my taxes when i worked. and normal people dont pay taxes just the rich.

Edited by conspiracybeliever

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Mac E

Repeal it..fine, but the system is broke. What are they offering up to fix it?

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Br Cornelius

Repeal it..fine, but the system is broke. What are they offering up to fix it?

More of the same old way, I suspect.

I ask the simple question - do you ordinary jo's feel rich enough to pay for a a course of cancer treatment if you lose your job and medical insurance. For many the answer seems to be no, so death waits with open and welcoming arms. Hurts like crazy untreated cancer

The freedom to die in a Corperatocracy, good result there :clap: .

Br Cornelius

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danielost

More of the same old way, I suspect.

I ask the simple question - do you ordinary jo's feel rich enough to pay for a a course of cancer treatment if you lose your job and medical insurance. For many the answer seems to be no, so death waits with open and welcoming arms. Hurts like crazy untreated cancer

The freedom to die in a Corperatocracy, good result there :clap: .

Br Cornelius

what we cant help those who need the help without forcing people to buy insurance, they dont want.

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venqax

More of the same old way, I suspect.

I ask the simple question - do you ordinary jo's feel rich enough to pay for a a course of cancer treatment if you lose your job and medical insurance. For many the answer seems to be no, so death waits with open and welcoming arms. Hurts like crazy untreated cancer

The freedom to die in a Corperatocracy, good result there :clap: .

Br Cornelius

For all your miscasting of the American debate re HC, it is ironic that you mention cancer. The survival rates for all the major types of cancer- breast, lung, and prostate among them-- are higher in the US than in any socialized medicine country. Everyone wants "universal" HC. But not everyone think the way to get it is thru the govt ham-handed involvement. And they are right. We do have the socialized med countries to look at as examples-- and we don't find them to be ones we want to immitate. As it is now our lines are too long and HC is too expensive. Obicare is going to make both those problems worse.

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