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Karlis

Vote to Repeal Obamacare Passes 245-189

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conspiracybeliever

Ouch.

I'm in NY, seems nearly everyone who applies gets it, so long as you are under a certain poverty level. At least thats how it seems from what I have seen. Then again, Ive never had to walk into a welfare office to apply. Not yet anyway. Things in this state are not looking good, especialy in my line of business

Startraveler is correct about what he is saying about eligibility for Medicaid. I was going to reply to the same post he did and I'm glad because he answered better than I could have. So what about working people who can't afford insurance and are not eligible for Medicaid? Those are the people who need this insurance.

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preacherman76

Startraveler is correct about what he is saying about eligibility for Medicaid. I was going to reply to the same post he did and I'm glad because he answered better than I could have. So what about working people who can't afford insurance and are not eligible for Medicaid? Those are the people who need this insurance.

I agree. I just dont agree that inflating the federal government is the right answer to the problem.

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danielost

Startraveler is correct about what he is saying about eligibility for Medicaid. I was going to reply to the same post he did and I'm glad because he answered better than I could have. So what about working people who can't afford insurance and are not eligible for Medicaid? Those are the people who need this insurance.

expand meddicaid

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Startraveler

expand meddicaid

If only someone had thought of that...

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AROCES

Startraveler is correct about what he is saying about eligibility for Medicaid. I was going to reply to the same post he did and I'm glad because he answered better than I could have. So what about working people who can't afford insurance and are not eligible for Medicaid? Those are the people who need this insurance.

So the solution is to have somebody else pay for it?

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danielost

If only someone had thought of that...

i have been saying it for a year. yes it will cost us more, but not as much as starting another department in the government. the cost would be the actual medical costs of the new people covered by it. maybe hiring a few new pencil pushers.

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Br Cornelius

ahh no. This disparity is most likely due to differences in the stage of cancer when it is diagnosed, the researchers said.

it also says

Coleman believes the differences among countries -- and within regions of countries -- is directly related to access to health care. "This is not a question of the competence of doctors in any particular country," he said. "This is an issue of the overall effectiveness of health services."

i thought ever country on the planet had universal health care, except the usa. seems universal health care doesnt fix anything.

There is plenty of research which shows that the American system fails a significant minority of Americans. The reason that people refer themselves to their Doctor to late to get effective treatment - is predominantly due to fear of personal expense. Only when the condition is no longer ignorable do such people seek help.

I have not said that America has the worst health care system, or that all other countries have universal health care. Obviously a country such as Sudan compares very unfavouably with America. However when compared to countries such as France and Germany America comes out fairly poorly. On an overall basis those stats say that America ranks 37th in the world for overall health provision - which is not a good advert for a private insurance health care system. On pure value for money grounds, Americans get half the health care for their money than most public health systems- that is the aspect which is fundamentally broken and needs fixing.

Personally I live in Ireland which has an insurance based health system. It is not as bad as the USAv because the "Medical Card" covers most who cannot afford private insurance. However all the people who have got medical insurance are in exactly the same position as Americans - there is a critical point between been eligable for the Medical Card and been able to afford health insurance into which a substantial fraction of the population fall. Health care is one of the greatest worries that the average Irish person faces. At the moment most of the cost of health provision within the state is covered by the Government, but if this changed a large proportion of the public would no longer be able to afford to go to the Doctor.

It seems to me that there is a strongly ideological basis to this argument within America, and the evidence just doesn't support the position that the Government isn't the best body to administer and provide health care.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

So the solution is to have somebody else pay for it?

Thats called living in a civilised country which expects much of its people, but also looks after its own. :tu:

Br Cornelius

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questionmark

So the solution is to have somebody else pay for it?

WELL, why should the Federal government pay most of your state's transportation budget? Increase the road tax I say so you pay for what you use.

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AROCES

Thats called living in a civilised country which expects much of its people, but also looks after its own. :tu:

Br Cornelius

Socialism in other words.:tu:

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AROCES

WELL, why should the Federal government pay most of your state's transportation budget? Increase the road tax I say so you pay for what you use.

Gasoline Tax, Toll, registration and Truckers road Tax are meant for those, but as always when there is enough for the road then Politicians starts diverting the fund for your social programs until the State is Broke.

Just like Greece.

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Br Cornelius

Socialism in other words.:tu:

Despite your misconception as to what socialism actually means, neither Britain or France are socialist countries. Not everyone outside of America who does things differently is a socialist you know :tu:

Br Cornelius

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Leonardo

expand meddicaid

If only someone had thought of that...

The end result would have been the same, only now the debate would be about "Obama-aid" being too costly for those it was meant to provide for. It is useless debating what may, or may not, have been done instead of the healthcare reform bill on the table. The only reasonable way forward is to understand why there is so much argument against healthcare reform when that reform is so obviously required.

Edited by Leonardo

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questionmark

Gasoline Tax, Toll, registration and Truckers road Tax are meant for those, but as always when there is enough for the road then Politicians starts diverting the fund for your social programs until the State is Broke.

Just like Greece.

No, the fact is that certain leeches live off others and then protest about taxes.

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Blizno

yes we do, but we dont want government to control it.

Who's this "we"?

Do you want insurance companies whose soul purpose for existing, like all businesses, is to make money operating health care payments? Their primary objective is to maximize profit. That's how business works.

There's a fantasy from the Right that everything's just fine the way it is. Things are not fine. Things are bad and are getting worse fast. Costs overall are rising much faster than inflation. Something has to change.

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Blizno

It staggers me that you Americans would be so against a health care reform which would allow the large minority of American citizens access to some form of health provision. At the moment if you can afford health care insurance you have one of the best health services in the world. If you are locked out of health insurance (as an increasing number are) you die or receive substandard emergency provision.

In Britain and almost all of Europe you are equally entitled to the same health care regardless of your status. I ask you, should you expect to die because you cannot afford health insurance - its hardly very civilised.

Br Cornelius

I am retired and paying huge money for private insurance (I'm too young for Medicare). I am green with envy at your tax-paid health care system.

Of course those favoring continuing the private insurance system can find lots of individuals from Europe and Canada who've had bad experiences. They trot them out as if they represent the typical experience. I guarantee that you can find LOTS of people in USA who've had bad experiences with private insurance, those that haven't died...

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Blizno

so now the house vote is none important, we are ruled from the supreme court.

No. The bill will lose in the Senate. Government checks and balances will work as intended.

By the way, the Supreme Court is overwhelmingly Conservative, like the people pushing this bill.

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Blizno

I think from what I have read here, the corporate lobbyists have shafted you again. The irony seems to be that the right wing is selling you this line as a favour to the people.

Br Cornelius

Agreed!

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Blizno

I think from what I have read here, the corporate lobbyists have shafted you again. The irony seems to be that the right wing is selling you this line as a favour to the people.

Br Cornelius

"Doubleplusgood news, Citizens! The chocolate ration has been increased from thirty grammes to twenty!"

-Republican Party

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conspiracybeliever

expand meddicaid

And you know what would happen? People would be finding ways to cheat the system just as they do the welfare system. That's where it would get expensive. Then everyone would be complaining about that.

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conspiracybeliever

So the solution is to have somebody else pay for it?

Aroces that's the solution that people like you always come up with not people like me. You have to pay taxes you raise prices and interest rates, add bogus charges to our bills. That's your solution not mine.

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Startraveler

The end result would have been the same, only now the debate would be about "Obama-aid" being too costly for those it was meant to provide for. It is useless debating what may, or may not, have been done instead of the healthcare reform bill on the table. The only reasonable way forward is to understand why there is so much argument against healthcare reform when that reform is so obviously required.

The wink-and-nod here is that the ACA does expand Medicaid. That's the paradigm shift I was alluding to above. Whereas before (now, technically) only poor children are truly protected with states making eligibility decisions for others, under the ACA any citizen with income below 133% of the federal poverty line will be eligible for Medicaid. That's a tremendous simplification of the eligibility criteria and it's a sizable expansion of the program. That's the source of half of the new coverage that will be starting up in 2014.

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Blizno

You think Medicare was invented in 1905?

Yes. And there is no other way about it. Before medicare, made in the 60's, people paid a average of 10 dollars a month to buy health insurance. They only used it for major medical needs. You could afford OUT OF POCKET, minor medical expenses. Very much including a simple x-ray. My family has long been in the health insurance biz, I know this for a FACT. Maybe you should look into what you are talking about before you flip the switch on your God complex.

Before the 60s, having a heart condition often meant that you had weeks or months before you died. Cancer killed quickly.

That's different now. People with severe heart disease can sometimes live a normal life span. People with cancer often die of something other than cancer. That's because we've developed vastly superior medical care to what was available in the 60s. It's not cheap.

$10/month for health insurance? Sign me up!

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Blizno

Exactly BR. That statment wraps up 100% of ALL our political problems. Thats why its attractive to many people when people run for office preaching small government latly.

BR is saying that the problem is due to corporate control of government, not too much government.

Just as we pay far too much for the health care that we get, we get far too little government thanks to the corporations dominating it.

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preacherman76

Who's this "we"?

Do you want insurance companies whose soul purpose for existing, like all businesses, is to make money operating health care payments? Their primary objective is to maximize profit. That's how business works.

There's a fantasy from the Right that everything's just fine the way it is. Things are not fine. Things are bad and are getting worse fast. Costs overall are rising much faster than inflation. Something has to change.

No there isnt. I dont know anyone who thinks there isnt a problem with the costs of health care. But what most people dont know is that each state has very few insurance companies to pick from. They have formed monopolies. This means capitalism cant function the ways its supose to. On top of that, there are restrictions that forbid not for profit insurance companies from forming.

Take car insurance for example. Those companies can operate in any state. I was paying alot for car insurance given to me by progressive 2 years ago. I went to geico, cause they offered the same insurance for way less. About a month ago, I called progressive back to see what they would charge me now, and found that they were even cheaper then gieco, so I switched back. This was all possible cause there is ligit competition. With health insurance, there is none.

This could also be done with drug companies.

Edited by preacherman76

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