'apophenia'

[dekker87 114]

imo explains a helluva lot about religion and the paranormal..

My link

[Bendy Demon 4,698]

I agree.

In our collective attempts to try and make sense of this world we have a tendency to try and seek meaning in the mundane.

When I used to study Wicca..some people, in a forum for example, went so far as to claim that any event in nature was significant and if you happened to see something like an eagle fly overhead then it somehow meant something.

I tried to counter by saying, in the same forum, that in nature things are always happening. Birds flying, squirrels running around, insects doing whatever it is that they do...and just because one happened to be at a particular spot when, say, a red tailed hawk lands in a tree near them should never be interpreted as a message or meaning.

I basically said that if you are in a park or the woods, one shouldn't be surprised to see nature doing whatever it does and simply take the scene of a woodpecker in a tree at face value..a woodpecker in a tree.

But also I think that ignorance plays a huge part in the paranormal as well meaning that many people have a poor understanding of physics and biology and when they experience something they do not understand then many are apt to identify it as paranormal or super-natural.

[dekker87 114]

I agree.

In our collective attempts to try and make sense of this world we have a tendency to try and seek meaning in the mundane.

When I used to study Wicca..some people, in a forum for example, went so far as to claim that any event in nature was significant and if you happened to see something like an eagle fly overhead then it somehow meant something.

I tried to counter by saying, in the same forum, that in nature things are always happening. Birds flying, squirrels running around, insects doing whatever it is that they do...and just because one happened to be at a particular spot when, say, a red tailed hawk lands in a tree near them should never be interpreted as a message or meaning.

I basically said that if you are in a park or the woods, one shouldn't be surprised to see nature doing whatever it does and simply take the scene of a woodpecker in a tree at face value..a woodpecker in a tree.

But also I think that ignorance plays a huge part in the paranormal as well meaning that many people have a poor understanding of physics and biology and when they experience something they do not understand then many are apt to identify it as paranormal or super-natural.

i also think however that what you believe in is pretty irrelevant....the act of beleif, total belief in something leads us to higher plains..

[SlimJim22 34]

i also think however that what you believe in is pretty irrelevant....the act of beleif, total belief in something leads us to higher plains..

I suggest that higher plains are attained through knowing and faith more than belief. Belief is a term used to gauge whetehr or not we agree with dogma. God has nothing to do with dogma in my eyes.

False patterns are constantly occuring in our world for sure but is that to say that no meanigful patterns exist? I strongly disagree because having research shamanism, world religions, esoteric mysteries and ancient mythologies it is honestly startling how often the exact same symbols and meanings are repeated. All too often I think we forget the core meaning of symbols and find it easier to squabble over the superficial details. That is my take.

D'ya watch Lost?

http://www.hatch23.com/2008/03/16/lost-and-apophenia/

[dekker87 114]

I suggest that higher plains are attained through knowing and faith more than belief. Belief is a term used to gauge whetehr or not we agree with dogma. God has nothing to do with dogma in my eyes.

False patterns are constantly occuring in our world for sure but is that to say that no meanigful patterns exist? I strongly disagree because having research shamanism, world religions, esoteric mysteries and ancient mythologies it is honestly startling how often the exact same symbols and meanings are repeated. All too often I think we forget the core meaning of symbols and find it easier to squabble over the superficial details. That is my take.

D'ya watch Lost?

http://www.hatch23.com/2008/03/16/lost-and-apophenia/

no i've never seen it once!

my propesnity for identifying patterns means i get very little from the vast majority of fiction.

you're quite right that i mean 'faith' rather than 'belief'....however i still maintain THAT is the important thing...whatever you hang it on is irrelevant in the sense that it only matters to your ego that that is what you have faith in. i think the symbols are repeated because they have been used before and are known as 'magical' symbols which helps us to have faith in them.

nice link tho...very illuminating!

edit - GREAT LINK in fact - i went to their homepage and there's an article on the first earth battalion...something i've been interested in for years...and which most of US special forces actually belong to according to several contacts i have within that field.

Edited January 26, 2011 by dekker87

[Bendy Demon 4,698]

you're quite right that i mean 'faith' rather than 'belief'....however i still maintain THAT is the important thing

Why is it important?

If one holds onto faith then how does that lead one anywhere useful?

Not trying to be confrontational but would like to know.

[dekker87 114]

Why is it important?

If one holds onto faith then how does that lead one anywhere useful?

Not trying to be confrontational but would like to know.

very simply put if you believe you can do something then you can do it.

as long as you genuinely believe you can do it.

you could fly if you genuinely believed it.

you could walk thru walls if you genuinely believed it.

that's lots of things that we're capable of that we're brainwashed into thinking we aren't...modern life (either by accident or design) isn't conducive to releasing our own potential.

My link

[Bendy Demon 4,698]

very simply put if you believe you can do something then you can do it.

as long as you genuinely believe you can do it.

you could fly if you genuinely believed it.

you could walk thru walls if you genuinely believed it.

that's lots of things that we're capable of that we're brainwashed into thinking we aren't...modern life (either by accident or design) isn't conducive to releasing our own potential.

My link

So just believe and it is real, am I right?

I am sorry but isn't this the kind of mindset that children often harbor? Just believe hard enough and everything is possible?

I would like to see real proof of people walking through walls and flying simply because they believed really, really hard.

While the link was nice, nowhere in it did it even vaguely hint that people can do the biologically and physically impossible.

Thanks anyways.

[dekker87 114]

So just believe and it is real, am I right?

I am sorry but isn't this the kind of mindset that children often harbor? Just believe hard enough and everything is possible?

I would like to see real proof of people walking through walls and flying simply because they believed really, really hard.

While the link was nice, nowhere in it did it even vaguely hint that people can do the biologically and physically impossible.

Thanks anyways.

you're missing the point...it's impossible to believe that we can fly...because it's impossible for us to fly...

i think anyway...maybe i just don't believe!

[SlimJim22 34]

no i've never seen it once!

my propesnity for identifying patterns means i get very little from the vast majority of fiction.

you're quite right that i mean 'faith' rather than 'belief'....however i still maintain THAT is the important thing...whatever you hang it on is irrelevant in the sense that it only matters to your ego that that is what you have faith in. i think the symbols are repeated because they have been used before and are known as 'magical' symbols which helps us to have faith in them.

nice link tho...very illuminating!

edit - GREAT LINK in fact - i went to their homepage and there's an article on the first earth battalion...something i've been interested in for years...and which most of US special forces actually belong to according to several contacts i have within that field.

Glad you liked it.

Are you guys aware of Thelema magick or the Law of Attraction? Some sites on them can get a bit new-agey for my taste but I appreciate the concepts that they share and it does give some potential to what we think of as magick. Maybe quantum mechanics and the observer effect and all that will at some time shine a light on all sorts of mysteries.

I like reading about Jung and synchronities aswll as Eliade and his studies on shamanism. It is incredible how often the exact same symbols or meanings appear. I can only think that they are drawing on an 'other' source.

http://www.mindbridge-loa.com/law-of-attraction-explained.html

[Bendy Demon 4,698]

Ok..I am puzzled by your response..first you said this:

very simply put if you believe you can do something then you can do it.

as long as you genuinely believe you can do it.

you could fly if you genuinely believed it.

you could walk thru walls if you genuinely believed it.

that's lots of things that we're capable of that we're brainwashed into thinking we aren't...modern life (either by accident or design) isn't conducive to releasing our own potential.

My link

Then you counter with this:

you're missing the point...it's impossible to believe that we can fly...because it's impossible for us to fly...

i think anyway...maybe i just don't believe!

I don't think I was missing anything really. I guess I was trying to say that belief is not a guarantee that one will be able to do anything so I guess I am unclear as to where you stand on the issue.

[dekker87 114]

Ok..I am puzzled by your response..first you said this:

Then you counter with this:

I don't think I was missing anything really. I guess I was trying to say that belief is not a guarantee that one will be able to do anything so I guess I am unclear as to where you stand on the issue.

i'm trying to say that if you genuinely believe you can fly then you could....but you wouldnt be able to ever genuinely believe that you can fly though because that would be an impossibility....perhaps flying is a poor example...try this instead...

a man can run a mile in 4 minutes...therefore ANY of us can do it...however before we were able to we would have to train ourselves into peak physical fitness to do so....at the end of that training we would believe that we could do it....prior to the training our faith in our ability to do so would not be there...as we can never fool ourselves on a sub-conscious level...

faith is not just a question of blind belief.