+joc Posted January 5, 2005 #301 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The USSR was not following pure communism, but a dictatorship form called stalinist communism. Communism, is for equality and fair treatment for all no matter who you are - stalinist communism does not share this view. And in the history of the world there has never been a society that was following 'pure communism'. This is because 'pure communism' doesn't work....perhaps the idea is noble but like anarchy, the human factor has to be considered. The human factor is such that in any undertaking such as anarchy or communism the bad and evil will co-opt it in such a way as to make it profitable only to themselves at the populations expense. This is the main reason anarchy won't work. It is the main reason communism won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Posted January 5, 2005 #302 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Agreed in our current wealth driven climate no government is ever free from corruption. Until monetery wealth and greed are abolished and the ideals of working for the future of humanity rather than personal gain are preached and accepted no government will be more effective as than another, as corruption reigns all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 5, 2005 Author #303 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The USSR was not following pure communism, but a dictatorship form called stalinist communism. Communism, is for equality and fair treatment for all no matter who you are - stalinist communism does not share this view. And in the history of the world there has never been a society that was following 'pure communism'. This is because 'pure communism' doesn't work....perhaps the idea is noble but like anarchy, the human factor has to be considered. The human factor is such that in any undertaking such as anarchy or communism the bad and evil will co-opt it in such a way as to make it profitable only to themselves at the populations expense. This is the main reason anarchy won't work. It is the main reason communism won't work. 437523[/snapback] Anarchy has worked in the past. And as I pointed out- It works now. Name me 5 reasons anarchy will not work joc, and I'll do my best to answer you. Feel free to use old questions from further back in the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogie Posted January 5, 2005 #304 Share Posted January 5, 2005 (edited) to the bashes on comunisim, people are not born greedy, they are made that way by society, and i see communisim as a way to lean people gently into anarchy. And how do you know communisim dosen't work? Did big brother reagan tell you that? Edited January 5, 2005 by Droogie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 6, 2005 #305 Share Posted January 6, 2005 to the bashes on comunisim, people are not born greedy, they are made that way by society, and i see communisim as a way to lean people gently into anarchy. And how do you know communisim dosen't work? Did big brother reagan tell you that? This is the most idiotic statement I have yet encountered in this thread... Anarchy has worked in the past. And as I pointed out- It works now. Name me 5 reasons anarchy will not work joc, and I'll do my best to answer you. Feel free to use old questions from further back in the topic. As I loath repeating myself over and over, and having just spent time posting an answer to your question....let me ask you ... ....If anarchy has worked in the past, where did it work? And if it worked, why isn't it still 'working' today? Please let us know the names of the countries where anarchy is working now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 6, 2005 Author #306 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Spain, 1936. Franco invaded, and took over country. He took over democracies to, so dont tell me Its because anarchy cant defend itself. And as I pointed out, The Town Of Christania is a modern anarchy. Theres also a project going on in Germany where somewhere around 700 anarchist (iniatially, I think its increased now) bought some land in a remote area and created a anarchy there. IT's within another nations borders, but they abide by the laws the community creates. Germany doesnt have a problem with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABOTU Posted January 6, 2005 #307 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Plus that was only 3 questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogie Posted January 6, 2005 #308 Share Posted January 6, 2005 oh yipee, another Reagan fan what a suprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 7, 2005 Author #309 Share Posted January 7, 2005 oh yipee, another Reagan fan what a suprise 439729[/snapback] If your not going to say anything constructive, please refrain from posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 7, 2005 #310 Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) Spain, 1936. Franco invaded, and took over country. He took over democracies to, so dont tell me Its because anarchy cant defend itself. And you call this a working example of Anarchy? Rather it is a working example of one bunch of thugs with the help of another bunch of thugs overthrowing a democracy. Give me a break Novo. In 1936 with the support of Hitler, Mussolini and the Catholic Church the right wing in Spain led a counter revolution against the Republican government. They used the army under General Franco to attack the government. England and France refused to supply the Republican side, though they knew that Franco was getting all out support from Germany and Italy. The Communists and the Republican Government believed that they could negotiate with Franco if they quelled the anarchist revolution in Catalonia and Barcelona. It was this tragic policy that led to a civil war within the civil war. In the end Spain fell to Franco, but by then the world was looking at Germany's expansion into Poland and shuddering at the possibility of a World War. It is believed that had Europe intervened in defense of Republican Spain, Germany and Italy would have been roundly defeated, and the second world war could have been avoided. Instead Hitler got a chance to practice his blitzkrieg tactics on Spain in preparation for his expansion into Europe. The famous Piccaso painting of the German bombing of Spanish civilians at Guernica would foreshadow the horrors awaiting a Europe that had turned it's back on Spain. Source Edited January 7, 2005 by joc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 7, 2005 Author #311 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Its a example of A Anarchist Revolution, War isnt pretty. But sometimes the ends justify the means. In the 4 year period the spanish anarchy lasted they had a higher GDP than any other place in the region. They produced more, and people knew each other. they werent Senor or Senoria they were Comrade, brother, friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 7, 2005 #312 Share Posted January 7, 2005 The larger story you seem to be missing is that without the support of Hitler and Friends they wouldn't have stood a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 7, 2005 Author #313 Share Posted January 7, 2005 The larger story you seem to be missing is that without the support of Hitler and Friends they wouldn't have stood a chance. 440047[/snapback] Either I have been misinformed, or were thinking of two different instances. From what I understood the anarchy wasnt the whole of spain, just a small settlement within it. But I'll go do some research and be back later. Pray tell, you may be right about this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 7, 2005 #314 Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) Apparently I copied the URL wrong because the 'Source' I used was inaccurate. It has now been corrected. Source Edited January 8, 2005 by joc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 8, 2005 Author #315 Share Posted January 8, 2005 In 1936 with the support of Hitler, Mussolini and the Catholic Church the right wing in Spain led a counter revolution against the Republican government. They used the army under General Franco to attack the government. Civil War was declared, and the call: NO PASARAN! (they shall not pass), went out around the world for workers to defend the Republic. The response to that call was the creation of the International Brigades, a volunteer army of workers, artists and intellectuals who went Spain to fight on behalf of the Republican cause. Franco's forces were held back in Catalonia, Barcelona and the northern Basque provinces. Here anarchist-syndicalists took over the factories and peasants formed anarchist communes on the land recently liberated from the old families. Direct democracy was instituted not only in the factories but in the cities. Police were replaced with civilian self defense forces made up of armed workers prepared to defend the revolution from Franco's forces. A new social revolution was being created in the midst of a civil war. By 1937 The Spanish Civil War had become front page news in the Edmonton Journal and Bulletin. The anarchist orator Emma Goldman traveled across Canada raising support and funds for the Spanish revolutionaries, and bringing attention to the plight of the Republic. Edmonton city councilor Margret Crang, joined Dr. Norman Bethune, Claire Culhane (the prison reform advocate) and 1300 other Canadians in going to Spain with the International Brigades. Crang and Culhane worked with Bethune to set up the first ever mobile field hospital , a MASH, bringing first aid to the republican forces at the front. Other Canadian workers and intellectuals joined the XVth English Speaking Unit of the International Brigades, The Lincoln Brigade. The Canadian Battalion was named the Mac-Paps after Mackenzie Papineau, the two leaders of the 1837 Rebellion in Upper and Lower Canada. The Mac-Paps were lead by two trade union activists; Edward Cecil Smith from Toronto and Saul Wellman from New York. Wellman was also the Communist Party political commissar for the battalion. The Mac-Paps fought in five major campaigns, defending the Republic, and finally withdrew in 1938. Only 35 Canadians had survived in the battalion of over 500. When they returned to Canada they were welcomed by the trade union movement and the political parties of the left, but received no official recognition from the government. The Canadian government had banned participation in the International Brigades under the Foreign Enlistment Act of April 1937, and the Customs Act which forbade export of arms to foreign countries. To this day the Canadian government has not recognized the men and women who fought in Spain in the International Brigades. In Toronto the supporters and survivors of the International Brigades are currently raising funds to erect a memorial to these brave men and women. Last year the Spanish Government recognized all the members of the International Brigades and their endeavors to defend the Republic. The government declared them honorary citizens of Spain. same source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Ol Skeptico Posted January 9, 2005 #316 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Isn't this Anarchy forum done yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novo Posted January 9, 2005 Author #317 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Isn't this Anarchy forum done yet? 442547[/snapback] The proper term is thread. People refuse to go back and reread the whole thread, so they question me again. I dont mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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