'Super pack' of 400 wolves terrorise remote

[Stellar]

If I lived there I would kill the "hunters" daring to attack the wolfs, go in their ways and go mad pretending to be a wolf and communicate with them... I already know some harsh langua in wolfish, how to say your not a danger to them. It's peoples mistake for chosing such a place to live.

What the ****? Wolfish? Are you for real?

I would trust my sister and brother wolf more than a human, for they are not like humans and do not lie.

What brother and sister wolf?

[Set the Fallen]

I am taking this seriously, perhaps you don't appreciate that these peoples livelihoods are at stake here. Are you taking this seriously? or are you just seeing this as another injustice to the natural world?

They live of their horses? In winter?

And here I though they were hunters into their bones that was living of selling fur... and that those that HAVE farm animals actually have them in houses in the winter. A horse or two don't meen much truly in compare to the food source like a sheep, reindeer or even cows.

In my eyes, killing for revenge a whole family, a whole pack is what I would find injustice to the whole pack. If they truly are 400, killing all of them innocent or not, killing indiscrimingly is rather what I consider a evil act. If you kill innocent in a war and other brag about your killing it does not change the fact that it is wrong. Killing solv nothing, it just open the way for more killing.

Yes I'd say that their lives and well-being is more important, that's my opinion of course.

I think the point is that these people feel they're not killing any more than is necessary, what they're doing, they're doing to protect their livestock.

As to the rest of that paragraph, I'm afraid I can't make out what it is you're trying to get at =/ sorry

You don't value life then.

All life holds value, to prefer the death over anything else tells me they prefer killing over anything else. No life is more important than other lifes, to believe so makes on ignorant. They will kill, most likely more than needed, I do not believe these menn to be justingly acting toward these wolfs. Menn fear what they can not controll, thus more will die. I expect them to be out to destroy all the wolfs in the area because of this "high" number in the pack. There will not even be a pup left if they are left to do whatever they wish.

Have we established that they're lieing? I admit that the numbers do seem disproportionate however we've not yet established that they're wrong.

I do not believe them. There is no proof in the number told.

Anyone can lie or exagerate in numbers, I will prefer standing by what logicaly seems more reliabel, and in this case, mann is not that reliable thus I consider them liers.

Do you know what thought process they went through before deciding on this course of action? No, you do not, so stop assuming that just because their opinion goes against yours it's ill thought out. Hunters are not necessarily blood thirsty, infact I'd wager that a large number of hunters have a very healthy respect for nature.

I know they are not even trying.

Thinking through something and what they chose to do... thinking is no more than seeing options, that they prefer killing show how litle they care for what happens to the wolfs and the ecosystem. Actions and words are two different things, thus I see them as lazy. If they had truly cared to solve it, if they spoke the truth, then they would most likely find a way and do something to prevent similar problems in the future. Not massacre all the wolfs because of their own unwillingly stuborn additude. Hasting to kill instead of solving, the easy way out instead of a long tearm peacefull solving of the problem...

I pitty them their little resolve, their doomed nature.

Yes, I can see how that would be obvious when viewed through your wonderfully tinted glasses...You're under the spell known as self-righteousness.

Self-righteousness? I don't believe in right or wrong, but I believe in value of any life in this world, no mater how dark, tainted or wicked it is. Even the smallest grass deserve life, there is nothing but logic in it. Everyone works hard to live, so killing life is nothing, but a thing that should only be done in need.

If killing someone can save a thousand would you still do it?

There you go again calling them lazy. What are you basing this on? That they went to cull wolf numbers? Or is this just more baseless speculation that you're coming up with the try and make them look bad?

I judge them by their actions.

Grown intelligent people do not resort to having to call others lazy and stupid simply because they disagree with their view, they don't come out with "I've lived with nature so I CLEARLY know more than you" instead they come up with coherant thought out arguments with evidence to support them, something I've yet to see from you.

Grown intelligent people can name someone lazy if their actions show such a thing.

I can name someone stupid if their action say the same, and so far all I have seen from these people are actions that speak thus about them, thus I voice that they are such things. It has nothing to do with disagreement of something, but their actions themself. Natuaraly I have not lived so much in nature even if I know how to survive there. I am not a person of supreme knowledge, and anyone saying they knew all about nature would be a complete fool. I have flavs, and one of my greatest flavs is simply me not sharing what I know, just speaking my mind without telling how I conclude my voice in things. Thus I forget to share what I myself know of things.

If I were to share info though I find it not all people understand it, so I am no teacher for others. I can say though that what I know, it is from experience, from knowledge and from my own beliefs on the law of the world. Wolfs are animals I know truly well as I have studied wolfs a little more than the average human, even if it's just a sort of hobby. I know their body langua, what some howls meens, even how large a pack can become before it dissolves as cause of to much members. To me this is normal knowledge, and I most times expect people to know it as well as me. That at least other read a little before stating their opinion in such a topic. I do not suspect people to be one sided at all, maybe I expect to much though...

Do you know that they're planning to kill them all? Or are you vilifying them again with no evidence? What do you think the impact would be if they killed 1/4 of them? Perhaps that would be enough of a cull to mean that the wolves natural prey is sufficient for their numbers? Until we know more all of this is just speculation. As I've said before, as long as research is done to ensure that they don't decimate the entire local population, a cull to more normal numbers seems like a perfectly valid option.

Of course it seems, but if humans go on a killingrampage, there would be more deaths than it would be worth.

I think it safer to let the wolfs solve it on their own. Also... if the number truly was this high, why do they suddenly talk about the wolfs in the middle of the winter after new year? If the number truly was that high, I would suppose the wolfs had been a problem already in the summer. I find it strange. It stinks of lies.

Yes Fencing is that expensive and that is not taking into account the costs of materials suited to the Siberian environment, Electric fences even more expensive will work briefly, the wolves will poke and probe and will find their way through.

These "lazy land rapers" as you seem to put it (I suppose you'll throw me in with that tag)have a more intimate relationship and knowledge of the earth and nature than any eco-warrior types. And just to say most farmers care for the land and their livestock and nature and put more in than we get out of it, its quite easy for people on the outside to jump on the bandwagon of how evil and damaging we are to the environment yet are happy to sit and eat the food we produce and expect to buy food for cheap and not expect any consequences.

Fencing is not as expencive as killing, and also... if they had cared to solve it peacfully anything would be cheeper than killing. And, actually I know about the people running around that could help these guys. That I forget mentioning it is simply because I think fences is a chep way to save everyone. Both the wolfs and humans would be able to live in peace with a fence around the city. Taking a life should be the last thing they would jump to. Also, if they sprayed the fence with a disgusting smell, it would keep wolfs at bay. AND!!! They could use a simpler protection named wolfsong. They could play it around the city, it is the most chep thing I can think of as all you need are some speachers and a cd player (believe me it works). Just so you know, farmers do not care for the land, they care about themself.

I do not trow people like you into the the catagory "lazy land rapers" as you need to be less inteligent and more a idiot to be one, though these "farmers" are defently not of the good kind that care for the land. (though my opinion on farmers are not truly needed, but some might treat the land kindly) Perhaps they are to proud to accept other kind of help, solving it the old way is more expencive. Anything living is actually a damage to life, in one way or another, but... how you live your life and your actions speak more. Concecuenses are what happens in anything you do, I expect them to notice the problem if they kill the wolfs. Let them kill them then and see what kind of monsters they themself are.

Did she not post that after me? I was responding to Set The Fallens post saying that fencing is cheap, Ive put up enough fences to know, and I'll tell you now working with barbed wire is no fun

Im in my final year of my Zoology degree and we extensively study ecology, predator prey interactions and animal behaviour etc. These large numbers of wolves are putting pressure on already exhausted resources which wont be able to recover unless the numbers of these predators are brought down to some sustainable level. If not it is quite possible that this could result in a population crash which could wipe out wolves in the area altogether.

Barbed wire? WHO SAID ANYTHING OF SUCH A HORRIBLE THING!!! Man, your sick.

Do you know how many unececary deaths such thing causes? A simple woodfence around the village, like what a forth have would suffie, they have wood all around themself, why not as well use some of it? It would maybe kill many trees, but trees can grow again. Other lifes simply die and can never come back. Anything is cheper than killing.

The wolf number is a obvious fat lie, if it was true, would they not have been a larger problem long before this winter? JUST one couple in the pack are allowed to mate. The alpha male and alpha female. If any other tries they are trown out of the pack, and the hunters in the area have probably killed some wolfs through the years, wolfs are not like cockroaches, they can not get a 1000 pups at one time. It is more normal with 3-4 pups each year. Do you understand how long time it would take? And all pups don't even survive! Some are eaten by bears, bobcats, killed by foxes, eaten by eagles, taken out by... and there is also hunters! How many do you think survive long enough? A wolf don't live eternaly either. 10-15 years at most, it's not a simple life. Do your math.

And even so, the fence is chep in compare to killing.

What the ****? Wolfish? Are you for real?

What brother and sister wolf?

I am not joking in regard of the wolf langua.

Even dogs uses this langua, it is not simple for a mann do use it though as humans neither have a tail or ears.

I see the wolfs as part of the family tree, the world. Like the birds, like the fish, even like humans. We were once the same, and they, like me, was made of stardust, of earth, from water once. They breath the same air as me, and we share the earth, the animals of this world is my cousins. Living, feeling just like me.

[Dougal]

They live of their horses? In winter?

And here I though they were hunters into their bones that was living of selling fur... and that those that HAVE farm animals actually have them in houses in the winter. A horse or two don't meen much truly in compare to the food source like a sheep, reindeer or even cows.

In my eyes, killing for revenge a whole family, a whole pack is what I would find injustice to the whole pack. If they truly are 400, killing all of them innocent or not, killing indiscrimingly is rather what I consider a evil act. If you kill innocent in a war and other brag about your killing it does not change the fact that it is wrong. Killing solv nothing, it just open the way for more killing.

Who said they were going to kill all of them? Who said they were going to brag about them? Nobody even suggested these things, stop trying to make an point about something nobody has said and address the points.

Also, suggesting that killing solves nothing is an idealistic view. You kill these wolves, the problem caused by those wolves is solved. Done. You may then experience other problems due to their deaths, but you've solved the wolf population problem.

You don't value life then.

Seriously, stop trying to judge me with your oh so perfect moral compass and look at what I'm saying. That's quite a bold claim to make when you have no idea about me at all. Infact I find that quite offensive. Simply because I value humans over animals you feel I don't value life?

All life holds value, to prefer the death over anything else tells me they prefer killing over anything else. No life is more important than other lifes, to believe so makes on ignorant. They will kill, most likely more than needed, I do not believe these menn to be justingly acting toward these wolfs. Menn fear what they can not controll, thus more will die.

How does it tell you that they prefer killing over anything else? It doesn't. You are aware that even conservationists and people who work for wildlife trusts are involved in the culling of animals each year. Just because you kill something you don't have to do it with a smile on your face.

I expect them to be out to destroy all the wolfs in the area because of this "high" number in the pack. There will not even be a pup left if they are left to do whatever they wish.

Just because you expect that it doesn't mean that that's what will happen.

I do not believe them. There is no proof in the number told.

Anyone can lie or exagerate in numbers, I will prefer standing by what logicaly seems more reliabel, and in this case, mann is not that reliable thus I consider them liers.

I agree, the numbers are likely exagerated, however you still have no right to go about calling them liars when you have no evidence.

I know they are not even trying.

And how do you know that? It's certainly not contained anywhere in the article. Oh that's right, you made it up once again,

Thinking through something and what they chose to do... thinking is no more than seeing options, that they prefer killing show how litle they care for what happens to the wolfs and the ecosystem.

Not at all, all you can deduce from their choice to kill the animals is that in their view it's the easiest and most effective method. You have nothing to show that they prefer killing, or that they don't care about wolves nor the ecosystem. Stop making things up!

Actions and words are two different things, thus I see them as lazy. If they had truly cared to solve it, if they spoke the truth, then they would most likely find a way and do something to prevent similar problems in the future. Not massacre all the wolfs because of their own unwillingly stuborn additude. Hasting to kill instead of solving, the easy way out instead of a long tearm peacefull solving of the problem...

I pitty them their little resolve, their doomed nature.

You see them as lazy, fine. First off lets get a few things down here: You don't know that they're "massacring" the wolves because they're stubborn. Have you been on the ground and reviewed their options? Do you know that they came to this decision because they're stubborn? No. YOU'RE MAKING THINGS UP.

Self-righteousness? I don't believe in right or wrong, but I believe in value of any life in this world, no mater how dark, tainted or wicked it is. Even the smallest grass deserve life, there is nothing but logic in it. Everyone works hard to live, so killing life is nothing, but a thing that should only be done in need.

If killing someone can save a thousand would you still do it?

How can you not believe in right and wrong when you're so clearly stating that you feel what these people are doing is wrong.

Things in nature are killed all the time.

Your belief is a very noble one, however it in no way justifies you to blanket state that what these people are doing is wrong and evil.

Oh and yes, if killing somebody would save 1000 people I would.

I judge them by their actions.

Grown intelligent people can name someone lazy if their actions show such a thing.

I can name someone stupid if their action say the same, and so far all I have seen from these people are actions that speak thus about them, thus I voice that they are such things. It has nothing to do with disagreement of something, but their actions themself.

But you have no basis on which to say that their actions are lazy, you're just projecting your views on their situation without taking in account the environment that they're in or other circumstances.

Of course it seems, but if humans go on a killingrampage, there would be more deaths than it would be worth.

I think it safer to let the wolfs solve it on their own. Also... if the number truly was this high, why do they suddenly talk about the wolfs in the middle of the winter after new year? If the number truly was that high, I would suppose the wolfs had been a problem already in the summer. I find it strange. It stinks of lies.

Why have you decided that they'll be going on a killing rampage?

As has been stated before, in order for the "wolves to sort it out themselves" the farmers would have to displace all of their domesticated life stock until the wolf population has stabilized, something not feasible.

Fencing is not as expencive as killing, and also... if they had cared to solve it peacfully anything would be cheeper than killing.

You may very well be right on that, but from what little on fencing I know I would have to assume that culling the wolf numbers would be significantly cheaper, and more sustainable.

[Farmerboy]

Barbed wire? WHO SAID ANYTHING OF SUCH A HORRIBLE THING!!! Man, your sick. Do you know how many unececary deaths such thing causes? A simple woodfence around the village, like what a forth have would suffie, they have wood all around themself, why not as well use some of it? It would maybe kill many trees, but trees can grow again. Other lifes simply die and can never come back. Anything is cheper than killing. The wolf number is a obvious fat lie, if it was true, would they not have been a larger problem long before this winter? JUST one couple in the pack are allowed to mate. The alpha male and alpha female. If any other tries they are trown out of the pack, and the hunters in the area have probably killed some wolfs through the years, wolfs are not like cockroaches, they can not get a 1000 pups at one time. It is more normal with 3-4 pups each year. Do you understand how long time it would take? And all pups don't even survive! Some are eaten by bears, bobcats, killed by foxes, eaten by eagles, taken out by... and there is also hunters! How many do you think survive long enough? A wolf don't live eternaly either. 10-15 years at most, it's not a simple life. Do your math. And even so, the fence is chep in compare to killing.

Dont overract I said I have put up barbed wire fences which are used to keep livestock in and stop them from falling into ditches on their backs and dying. Its no more harmful than an electric fence just they get a poke instead of a shock. Barbed wire wouldnt work with wolves as they can easily pop between the rows of wire. Its not razor wire for petes sake. Specialised fencing would be required to keep the wolves out and the deer in. With just a wooden fence the wolves could get through easily, just gnaw their way through.

With reindeer you cant just keep them in a shed they need to be constantly moved so they can find adaqate grazing forraging in the snow so fencing the range is not fesable.

I know well enough of the dynamics of social animals, although the number of wolves may be exaggerated it is most likely numerous packs tolerating each others presence rather than the one pack with the standard social structure.