Mark 3.29 - The unforgiven

[+Sherapy]

Sorry ... it's a personal opinion of certain people "believing" so

as that goes I don;t think links are available unless I attach a net cable to my head

@Paranoid Android

I didn't mean that there were witch hunts at the Nicene Council as I must admit I am unaware of the conspiracy theories involving the bishops.

I usually steer well clear of this topic as most gets very sensitive and gets all ruffled up and starts kicking up a storm, It gets tiring to deal with, it's getting better these days though as more resources are quite easily available

thanks for your thoughts

Very true, the days of basking in unquestioned authority are over for religion, thanks to the internet and the reemergence of critical thinking in our educational system.

It simply will not be able to survive critical analysis.

[SHaYap]

Very true, the days of basking in unquestioned authority are over for religion, thanks to the internet and the reemergence of critical thinking in our educational system.

It simply will not be able to survive critical analysis.

YES ma'am

Occam's razor got a new edge

[3rd rock resident alien]

Forgive me for asking a rather silly question

But what is The Bible's opinion of Hindus,Muslims,Buddhists,Atheists etc

What happens to them when they die?

They go to cemetery just like everyone else. Sun decompose them to start a new circle of life.

[+Paranoid Android]

If you disagree then please read this...

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/mark/3_20-35.htm

They accussed jesus of being an unclean spirit..

I don't necessarily agree with every point raised in the article (some was a little too fundamentalist at times), but I did notice this little bit from that article:

"Today, the only unpardonable sin is to die having rejected Jesus as Savior. Any sin today can be forgiven. But if they deny the person and work of Jesus Christ, there is no means by which God can forgive them--because they have denied the only way to salvation. That's the unpardonable sin. The unpardonable sin is to deny Jesus as the Christ. Every other sin can be forgiven. But to reject Jesus Christ as the Savior leaves no means by which God can grant forgiveness."

I said that there was no "direct link" to claims of demon possession. Claiming Jesus did his miracles by evil spirits is a rejection of God that can lead to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. But it is not the only thing that can lead to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This was just an example that Jesus used, one way that mankind can blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

You seem to be treating Mark 3:29 as a condemnation - as if these people had committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and Jesus was thus laying judgement upon them by proclaiming "You cannot receive forgiveness now". It was not a condemnation, BM. It was a WARNING - a warning to tell them that they were leading a path that would take them towards eternal sin. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, and I have heard you say I am doing these things by an evil spirit, so I warn you now of the danger you are in.

Warning, not condemnation

~ Regards, PA

[+Paranoid Android]

Very true, the days of basking in unquestioned authority are over for religion, thanks to the internet and the reemergence of critical thinking in our educational system.

It simply will not be able to survive critical analysis.

Critical thinking is an important skill for everyone to develop. But unfortunately, unquestioned authority of religion seems to sometimes be replaced with "unquestioned authority of the internet". The Internet is an awesome tool, don't get me wrong. It is a great tool to help learn and expand our horizons. But there is a lot of misinformation out there also, and sadly some people simply assume that "it's on the internet and therefore must be true". Not everyone does that, of course, but some people do seem to think that google can answer all their questions.

~ Regards,

[Beckys_Mom]

You seem to be treating Mark 3:29 as a condemnation - as if these people had committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and Jesus was thus laying judgement upon them by proclaiming "You cannot receive forgiveness now". It was not a condemnation, BM. It was a WARNING - a warning to tell them that they were leading a path that would take them towards eternal sin. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, and I have heard you say I am doing these things by an evil spirit, so I warn you now of the danger you are in.

Warning, not condemnation

PA yes it is a warning, and noted as the unforgiven sin.... but one that says ever so clearly - they will NEVER be forgiven... it is written down as word of god ...it's not like some empty threat.. its gods word according to christians and therfore it is a contradiction to what even you believe - when you say- yes all sin can be forgiven if one confesses... ( you said this previously)... but not according to mark 3.29... there is that one that is not forgiving... he wrote - NEVER...and it's means never... it doesn't mean - if on the off chance you may confess

Many people can sin... ( any sin)...and later turn to the lord... even if they have committed that one sin mentioned in Mark 3.29 ... they could easily see the error of their ways and turn over to the lord for forgiviness... But Mark 3.29 says - NEVER

So it's a contradiction............Mark 3.29 is clear in black and white...

They did accuse Jesus of being an unclean spirit as they tosed their stones and mocked him... everyone knows that story.... Jesus later said - Forgive them father, they know not what they do.... even Jesus forgave them all...

Anything in bold or in CAPS is only laying the emphasis

thanks

[+Paranoid Android]

PA yes it is a warning, and noted as the unforgiven sin.... but one that says ever so clearly - they will NEVER be forgiven...

I've made my view quite clear. If you disagree with it, fair enough, but we're now getting into the realm of repeating ourselves. I say it is not a contradiction - every sin can be forgiven. But once you die without the Holy Spirit, you can no longer repent, and thus by refusing to accept the Holy Spirit have thus blasphemed against it. I see no contradiction. You obviously see otherwise.

I feel no reason to continue going in the same circle.

[Beckys_Mom]

. But once you die without the Holy Spirit, you can no longer repent, and thus by refusing to accept the Holy Spirit have thus blasphemed against it. I see no contradiction. You obviously see otherwise.

You seem to think that once someone leaves the holy spirit, they can never want to return to the lord and ask for forgiviness... that is why you can't see it

Real logic - Anyone can be without the holy spirit...and LATER turn over and confess.... <--- Mark 3.29 still says - NEVER

The contradiction is clear

and I ma not arguing for the sake of it... I have thought long and hard about the entire thing ...( just incase you think I am)

[+Paranoid Android]

You seem to think that once someone leaves the holy spirit, they can never want to return to the lord and ask for forgiviness... that is why you can't see it

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding here after all, because that is not at all what I have said. I am talking about DEATH. You know, that thing that happens when people stop breathing. Once a person is DEAD, they have no chance of repenting, and therefore no chance to accept the Holy Spirit, and therefore blaspheme the Holy Spirit! This is the ONLY way to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Somebody leaving the faith and then some time later returning is NOT an example of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit!!!

and I ma not arguing for the sake of it... I have thought long and hard about the entire thing ...( just incase you think I am)

And just in case you think otherwise, I have also thought long and hard about this. Possibly even longer than you (I have thought about it on and off for the past ten years), though I could be wrong.

[Beckys_Mom]

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding here after all, because that is not at all what I have said. I am talking about DEATH.

PA even if you are talking about death ( and to be honest I didn't know you were, I don't think you mentioned it previously)...it wouldn't make sense to call him evil spirit and deny him as god in death....if they can clearly see he is not.... If you die and stand before him to be judged...you would clearly see he is who they say he is... you then would know better...

Anyroad - I wouldnt build a thread over what you may do in death, that would be pointless as we all do not have a clue what happens in death, or can take place.

You know, that thing that happens when people stop breathing. Once a person is DEAD

PA...there is no need for rotty sarcasim with me...I do know what DEATH is..I have had to deal with it a lot in my life... please do not sit and think you can patronise me with sarky remarks...I have not been sarky with you on this thread...I have respectfully read your posts and given you my thoughts...cut it out please

I was talking about life - we can all turn away from the holy spirit and later return

Somebody leaving the faith and then some time later returning is NOT an example of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit!!!

They don't even have to belong to the faith in the 1st place, they could ( or couldda lol) ..have been non believers from the word go.... they could still commit the same sin...and later return and ask him for forgiviness

its simple to understand

Once a person is DEAD, they have no chance of repenting, and therefore no chance to accept the Holy Spirit

How do you know what really happens PA? What makes you think that when we die we don't get a chance? or is this your own belief? <--fair questions

And just in case you think otherwise, I have also thought long and hard about this. Possibly even longer than you (I have thought about it on and off for the past ten years), though I could be wrong.

This isn't a bible study competition PA...I studied my bile most likely years before you descided to become a born again...but that is besides the point Edited February 23, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[+Paranoid Android]

PA even if you are talking about death ( and to be honest I didn't know you were, I don't think you mentioned it previously)...

The following quotes come directly from this thread (relevant section in red):

However, another equally possible understanding is as BM suggested- rejection of Jesus. By dying without accepting Jesus you never receive the gift of the holy Spirit and this can be argued to have blasphemed against it.

Either way, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not a simple thing people do every day.

I would argue that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is easier said than done. Simply rejecting Jesus is not enough! If you choose not to believe, you simply don't believe. But if you die without accepting Christ, then you have rejected totally the gift of the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit is the "down payment" to Christians to guarantee our inheritance in heaven, to die without that down payment is the only unforgivable sin (and thus the only way of losing salvation).

Personally, I think what I suggested before is more appropriate (but from what I understand you and I have slightly different understandings of Judgement at the End Times). Either way, it is no easy thing to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It either requires a rejection of God while fully believing that this God is the creator of everything, or it requires us to die. Whatever the case it, it is not something we can simply "choose" to do one day and then look for forgiveness the next.

I disagree. There is no direct link to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and accusations of demon possession. According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit in our lives is a down payment of the inheritance that people have in heaven. To reject that down payment is the only blasphemy that cannot be forgiven. And I don't mean just reject it once or twice, but reject it on the final day, hour and minute that you draw breath. Only after you die, and die without the Holy Spirit can you be said to have blasphemed, and therefore the only unforgivable sin.

I don't necessarily agree with every point raised in the article (some was a little too fundamentalist at times), but I did notice this little bit from that article:

"Today, the only unpardonable sin is to die having rejected Jesus as Savior. Any sin today can be forgiven. But if they deny the person and work of Jesus Christ, there is no means by which God can forgive them--because they have denied the only way to salvation. That's the unpardonable sin. The unpardonable sin is to deny Jesus as the Christ. Every other sin can be forgiven. But to reject Jesus Christ as the Savior leaves no means by which God can grant forgiveness."

Perhaps this might explain why I was a little snarky in defining what death was (I do apologise for that comment, by the way - I did not realise it would be taken as offensive). I have mentioned it several times within this thread. I now ask an honest question here - do you actually read ALL of a post? Or do you skim over it and pick out what you think is relevant and ignore the rest? The red highlights seem to indicate a pattern of ignoring themes. If I had only written it once during the thread, I could understand missing it as you read (we all miss things from time to time). But five posts in a 4-page thread and the issue becomes a little harder to wave away as an oversight.

it wouldn't make sense to call him evil spirit and deny him as god in death....if they can clearly see he is not.... If you die and stand before him to be judged...you would clearly see he is who they say he is... you then would know better...

Repentance is something that can only happen in this lifetime. Once we die, we can no longer repent of earthly sins. Since you die without the Holy Spirit, regardless of whether you accept it after that or not, to die without Jesus or the Holy Spirit is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. That's what I was saying.

How do you know what really happens PA? What makes you think that when we die we don't get a chance? or is this your own belief? <--fair questions

It is what the Bible says. We are talking about a passage from the Bible (Mark 3:29), so it seems logical that I can bring in other biblical concepts if it is related to the discussion. Otherwise, this thread would never have taken off and we'd still be arguing whether we know what Jesus or John said about forgiveness of sins. Edited February 23, 2011 by Paranoid Android

[Beckys_Mom]

The following quotes come directly from this thread (relevant section in red):

Perhaps this might explain why I was a little snarky in defining what death was (I do apologise for that comment, by the way - I did not realise it would be taken as offensive). I have mentioned it several times within this thread. I now ask an honest question here - do you actually read ALL of a post?

1st of all PA...it was a mistake on my behalf...you only had to show me one of those and I would have accepted it... we all misread at times...I truly didn't know

Like I said...even if in death...if we stand before the lrod..and have committed the sin ...I fail to believe that all of a sudden god is going to say - tough on you

If you seriously believe god is all knowing, and knows his own creations...then he would be all very much understanding- therfore would understand us as to why so many would commit that sin

However - it is kind of hard to commit a sin like that - calling him an evil spirit - IF you never held the faith in him or religion for that matter... you can't believe a holy spirit is evil if you hold no beleif in that holy spirit

Mark 3.29 is directed at those that did curse jesus to his face calling him unclean..... it was directed at them.... not in death...in life

[+Paranoid Android]

1st of all PA...it was a mistake on my behalf...you only had to show me one of those and I would have accepted it... we all misread at times...I truly didn't know

And as I said, I truly want to know whether you read ALL of a person's post, or whether you just skim through it to find major themes that jump out at you? I don't mean to be nasty or malicious in saying this, it's a logical step in this situation - as I said, one miss is fair enough (we all miss things from time to time), but missing five posts in the space of 4 pages shows a pattern developing.

Like I said...even if in death...if we stand before the lrod..and have committed the sin ...I fail to believe that all of a sudden god is going to say - tough on you

If you seriously believe god is all knowing, and knows his own creations...then he would be all very much understanding- therfore would understand us as to why so many would commit that sin

It's what the Bible says. You don't have to agree with it (as I know you don't), but as you said, what happens after death isn't really the purpose of your thread.

However - it is kind of hard to commit a sin like that - calling him an evil spirit - IF you never held the faith in him or religion for that matter... you can't believe a holy spirit is evil if you hold no beleif in that holy spirit

Totally agreed - it is not just "kind of hard" to commit a sin like that, it is totally impossible. Which is why simply losing faith and saying "I no longer believe in God" is NOT an example of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Only through death does one become answerable for their sins, and without the Holy Spirit you cannot be forgiven. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not easy to do, it's not something that we do every time we sin or every time we ignore God or say he doesn't exist.

Mark 3.29 is directed at those that did curse jesus to his face calling him unclean..... it was directed at them.... not in death...in life

Possibly. But if that is the case, then 1 John was written several decades after Jesus said these words in Mark 3, and John was writing to people who did NOT curse Jesus to his face. If the requirement for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in Mark 3 was to curse him face-to-face, then the author of 1 John could not write about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit since it was now impossible - he was not contradicting Jesus since he was writing to a different group of people who had not, and could not, curse Jesus to his face.

Either way, it is not a contradiction.

[Beckys_Mom]

It's what the Bible says. You don't have to agree with it (as I know you don't), but as you said, what happens after death isn't really the purpose of your thread.

Totally agreed - it is not just "kind of hard" to commit a sin like that, it is totally impossible. Which is why simply losing faith and saying "I no longer believe in God" is NOT an example of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Only through death does one become answerable for their sins, and without the Holy Spirit you cannot be forgiven. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not easy to do, it's not something that we do every time we sin or every time we ignore God or say he doesn't exist.

Possibly. But if that is the case, then 1 John was written several decades after Jesus said these words in Mark 3, and John was writing to people who did NOT curse Jesus to his face. If the requirement for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in Mark 3 was to curse him face-to-face, then the author of 1 John could not write about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit since it was now impossible - he was not contradicting Jesus since he was writing to a different group of people who had not, and could not, curse Jesus to his face.

Either way, it is not a contradiction.

The purpose of my thread was not aimed at death...It was clearly on life as we are now.. you mentioned death over a few times...I didnt reply to it as such...why? because in my head, it was irrelevant to this thread...I was always fixed on life on earth....never what may happen in death

I knew Mark 3.29 was aimed at those in life ....just like I knew that when those that were preached to back in the days of the bible, about how jesus or god can forgive ALL sins.. it was written...aimed at those who were alive on earth....

So I saw the contradiction..and I still do.... one says all will be forgiven if you confess(John) .........and Mark 3.29 says NEVER in the month of Sundays.......again a contradiction

[+Paranoid Android]

The purpose of my thread was not aimed at death...It was clearly on life as we are now.. you mentioned death over a few times...I didnt reply to it as such...why? because in my head, it was irrelevant to this thread...I was always fixed on life on earth....never what may happen in death

I knew Mark 3.29 was aimed at those in life ....just like I knew that when those that were preached to back in the days of the bible, about how jesus or god can forgive ALL sins.. it was written...aimed at those who were alive on earth....

So I saw the contradiction..and I still do.... one says all will be forgiven if you confess(John) .........and Mark 3.29 says NEVER in the month of Sundays.......again a contradiction

Mark 3:29 is aimed at those in life, but it is a warning about what should happen when they die, not a warning or condemnation of a sin they can commit while alive. Now that the issue of life/death is sorted, we're starting to go back in circles, so unless new information comes around, I'm outta here. Suffice it to say that for reasons stated previously, I don't see a contradiction.

[danielost]

Mark 3.29 - He who blasphems against the holy spirit, never has forgiviness and is guilty of eternal sin

( source...my bible.....lol)

Jesus said himself - ALL sins can be forgiven... so it looks more of a contradiction when Mark 3.29 says likewise as not all can be forgiven..............the word ALL means -> ALL ...

Jesus even forgave those who denied he was the son of god when he was stationed on the cross - forgive them father they know not what they do

So..............if you believe this is true...and from what it sounds...it is like the biggest sin of all, especially when it says it is not forgiven...

So my question is short and to the point --> Does this mean, all murderers, theives, rapists ect can be forgiven ...and non believers cannot?

yes christ said that, but he was talking about the people. not the religous leaders, who did know who and what he was.

[Beckys_Mom]

Mark 3:29 is aimed at those in life, but it is a warning about what should happen when they die, not a warning or condemnation of a sin they can commit while alive. Now that the issue of life/death is sorted, we're starting to go back in circles, so unless new information comes around, I'm outta here. Suffice it to say that for reasons stated previously, I don't see a contradiction.

Yes PA...Mark 3.29 is just that...hence the WARNING.( you even said yourself it was) .. <-- so IMO anyone can still change...but that would be pointless according to Mark3.29...he insists on saying - NEVER...and it means never... unlike the other verse that said ALL ( all means all, there was no if's or buts...it states if we confess)

So again the contradiction is there

Edited February 24, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[Karlis]

Hi BM -- I don't know if you noticed my post (couple days back) where I tried to show that there is no contradiction in these Scriptures. I'm curious as to your views on what I posted, so here it is again (KJV Scriptures).

According to Scriptures, there *is* sin for which there is no forgiveness, and it is mentioned a number of times in the Bible. Here are the Scriptures:

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Luk 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Matthew, Mark and Luke clearly state that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life, nor will it be forgiven in "the Day of Judgement". Now, that said, it remains to discern exactly how this "unforgivable sin" can be committed.

As I understand it, if anyone blasphemes the Holy Spirit without being 100% fully aware of the meaning, holiness and power of the Holy Spirit, would be blaspheming while being ignorant -- and because of that ignorance, that person's blasphemy can be forgiven.

I believe that a person who understands the meaning of salvation through the cleansing power of Jesus' shed blood and and has repented, receives within their mind the Holy Spirit.

Now for the "unforgivable sin", as I see it, if for whatever reason ~~~ *after* receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit from God ~~~ a person consciously and willingly rejects and blasphemes the Holy Spirit, there is no second chance for such a person; they have condemned themselves, and there is no more forgiveness available to them. Imo, the second part of the following verse applies to such people:

1Jn:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I think that Peter sums up the situation of people who knowingly blaspheme the Holy Spirit:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Hope that this makes some sense, and that there is no contradiction in the verses that you quoted.

Karlis

[Beckys_Mom]

yes christ said that, but he was talking about the people. not the religous leaders, who did know who and what he was.

You what? Jesus said what now? please explain more, don't be so vague

[Beckys_Mom]

(snip)

Now for the "unforgivable sin", as I see it, if for whatever reason ~~~ *after* receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit from God ~~~ a person consciously and willingly rejects and blasphemes the Holy Spirit, there is no second chance for such a person; they have condemned themselves, and there is no more forgiveness available to them. Imo, the second part of the following verse applies to such people:

No one has to recieve anything they did not ask for, and many jews back then held disbelief he was the holy spirit, and even many of us still hold that belief... Unless you think the gift of salvation is forced upon us all like it or not? Anyone can recieve salvation and later deny it....and go back and confess.... it does happen

The scriptures you posted is nothing I have not read before.... but to cut to the chase and get to the main point....

1.- Mark 3.29 - He who blasphemes against the holy spirit, never has forgiviness and is guilty of eternal sin...( feel free to split hairs over how it is worded...but you cannot remove the word- never)

2 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. http://bible.cc/1_john/1-9.htm

All means ALL ......and in Mark 3.29 NEVER means NEVER... the contradiction is cut and dry... I will not be repeating that again...I have done it too many times

But thanks for trying

Edited February 24, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[+Paranoid Android]

Yes PA...Mark 3.29 is just that...hence the WARNING.( you even said yourself it was) .. <-- so IMO anyone can still change...but that would be pointless according to Mark3.29...he insists on saying - NEVER...and it means never... unlike the other verse that said ALL ( all means all, there was no if's or buts...it states if we confess)

So again the contradiction is there

Anyone can change, and as long as they accept the Holy Spirit before they die they have not blasphemed this Holy spirit entity, and therefore have not committed the sin suggested in Mark 3:29

[Karlis]

~~~ ...(snip) ...

All means ALL ......and in Mark 3.29 NEVER means NEVER... the contradiction is cut and dry... I will not be repeating that again...I have done it too many times

But thanks for trying

Perhaps you don't like to consider context of Scriptures. Jesus' sacrifice is applied to a person once, and once only according to Scriptures. If a person has once accepted it, and then wilfully rejects it -- there is no second chance to repent and have that rejection forgiven. End of story, according to Scriptures.

2Pe 2:20 For

if

after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,

they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Ok, let's leave it at that ... you stay with your contradiction, and I'll stay without that contradiction.

Karlis

[Beckys_Mom]

Anyone can change, and as long as they accept the Holy Spirit before they die they have not blasphemed this Holy spirit entity, and therefore have not committed the sin suggested in Mark 3:29

You seem to think they cannot do it BEFORE hand ..and later confess

PA I have made this note many times... - you say as long as they accept the holy spirit before they die <---- Mark 3.29 says NEVER... and it is clear what never means...... makrk 3.29 means NEVER... so it doesnt matter look see what you confess

Ever decreasing circles here PA... its a contradiction

Edited February 24, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[+Sherapy]

You seem to think they cannot do it BEFORE hand ..and later confess

PA I have made this note many times... - you say as long as they accept the holy spirit before they die <---- Mark 3.29 says NEVER... and it is clear what never means...... makrk 3.29 means NEVER... so it doesnt matter look see what you confess

Ever decreasing circles here PA... its a contradiction

I'd agree it's a contraction, Sis.

[+Paranoid Android]

You seem to think they cannot do it BEFORE hand

Precisely! Today, it is impossible for anyone to blaspheme the Holy Spirit while they are alive! I agree with you that Mark 3 says they will NEVER have forgiveness, but you seem to think that someone CAN blaspheme the Holy Spirit while still alive, and that is the root of our disagreement.

its a contradiction

Nuh-uh, is not!!! Edited February 25, 2011 by Paranoid Android