Christian Couple barred from Fostering

[+HerNibs]

as i said i can make the same assumptions you can. your two points can be reversed on to a gay couple as well.

ie the child is hetrosexual and knows that both moms hate boy girl couples. how does he bring his girlfriend home to meet his parents.

No daniel, that doesn't work. You are submitting something as a fact (that gays hate the opposite gender) when overall it isn't accurate.

BUT the parents who are being rejected (or may be) actually stat

"We are prepared to love and accept any child. All we were not willing to do was to tell a small child that the practice of homosexuality was a good thing."

These parents have flat out said that they would teach a child that something that is legally acceptable IS MORALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Not their call to make.

Nibs

[danielost]

No daniel, that doesn't work. You are submitting something as a fact (that gays hate the opposite gender) when overall it isn't accurate.

BUT the parents who are being rejected (or may be) actually stat

These parents have flat out said that they would teach a child that something that is legally acceptable IS MORALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Not their call to make.

Nibs

so that is what is wrong, they are not willing to comply with a few people and tell a child who may or may not be gay that being gay is a good thing. they need to fight this as far as they can.

[danielost]

you guys have it wrong, it isnt how i feel about a group of people that is important, it is how i treat the individual that is important.

this couple and i do not feel that being gay is a good thing. but i try to treat individuals they way they deserve to be treated. i would never treat a gay person any different than how i would treat a straight person.

i see the muslim faith as being bad and wrong. but i worked in salt lake for a muslim and felt he was a friend.

Edited March 1, 2011 by danielost

[shadowhive]

you guys have it wrong, it isnt how i feel about a group of people that is important, it is how i treat the individual that is important.

this couple and i do not feel that being gay is a good thing. but i try to treat individuals they war they deserve to be treated. i would never treat a gay person any different than how i would treat a straight person.

That may be how you feel, that may be how the couple feels, however, children do not see things like that. A child hears that being gay is a bad thing, then they will treat a gay person differently. That's what children do. Take it from me. Kids that bully gay people learn that behaviour from somewhere and more often then not it's the parents.

[danielost]

That may be how you feel, that may be how the couple feels, however, children do not see things like that. A child hears that being gay is a bad thing, then they will treat a gay person differently. That's what children do. Take it from me. Kids that bully gay people learn that behaviour from somewhere and more often then not it's the parents.

your right kids learn to bully gay people from parents who bully gay people. that isnt what i said is it.

this couple didnt say they would tell the foster kids that being gay was wrong, they said they wouldnt say it was good. besides kids learn more from action than from words. such as you stated yourself, the kids learned their behavior from the parents behavior. of a parent tells a kid i hate black people, but treats a black person the same as he would a white person what does it tell the kid. which is more important action or words. i know to th lefties it is words and not action. but in the real world it is action not words that speak the loudest.

i treat everyone with respect when i first meet them, i continue to treat them with respect until they have wronged me in someway, but i useally give them three chances to before i stop associaton with them at all. and i dont mean minor things i can live with those.

i mean major things like calling me a lier when we both know i do not lie or i have proven myself to be right about something. which it seems two people on here havent gotten that aspect yet. but that isnt on topic sorry.

[danielost]

sorry but i have to put this in a different post.

any gay person who tells me they dont believe in god, i will call a lier.

because if there is no god, then he couldnt made them wrong the gender. also if there is no god, then nature cannot make a mistake and make people the wrong gender. so if you think your the wrong gender then you have to believe in god.

[shadowhive]

your right kids learn to bully gay people from parents who bully gay people. that isnt what i said is it.

this couple didnt say they would tell the foster kids that being gay was wrong, they said they wouldnt say it was good. besides kids learn more from action than from words. such as you stated yourself, the kids learned their behavior from the parents behavior. of a parent tells a kid i hate black people, but treats a black person the same as he would a white person what does it tell the kid. which is more important action or words. i know to th lefties it is words and not action. but in the real world it is action not words that speak the loudest.

That implies that they would teach a kid it was bad. Kids aren't like adults. They have much simpler logic. The process you just went to is easy for you and I to understand, but is it to a child? Not a young one at any rate. Besides, that could also be shown to teach a kid something else: to be two faced and a liar.

i treat everyone with respect when i first meet them, i continue to treat them with respect until they have wronged me in someway, but i useally give them three chances to before i stop associaton with them at all. and i dont mean minor things i can live with those.

i mean major things like calling me a lier when we both know i do not lie or i have proven myself to be right about something. which it seems two people on here havent gotten that aspect yet. but that isnt on topic sorry.

I generally treat people with respect. If I find out a person would sign my rights away, lock up or 'convert' me if they could, then thtat respect has gone completely. It happened to me only recently in fact.

True, that isn't about the topic.

[+HerNibs]

sorry but i have to put this in a different post.

any gay person who tells me they dont believe in god, i will call a lier.

because if there is no god, then he couldnt made them wrong the gender. also if there is no god, then nature cannot make a mistake and make people the wrong gender. so if you think your the wrong gender then you have to believe in god.

Daniel, being gay has nothing to do with thinking or feeling like you are the wrong gender.

Gay is two people of the same sex. It isn't one guy who really wants to be a girl so he only likes other guys.

Nibs

[shadowhive]

sorry but i have to put this in a different post.

any gay person who tells me they dont believe in god, i will call a lier.

because if there is no god, then he couldnt made them wrong the gender. also if there is no god, then nature cannot make a mistake and make people the wrong gender. so if you think your the wrong gender then you have to believe in god.

That has nothing to do with the topic.

I don't believe in the Christian god though.

Being homosexual is nothing to do with being the wrong gender (that is smething different entirely).

As to it being natural, I assume you think then that being gay comes from nurture instead right? Then could you please explain something to me. In countries like Uganda the population hates homosexuals, to the point when they can drive homosexuals from their homes, beat them, even kill them. Yet even in this environment, where homosexuals are absolutely despised, there are homosexuals. So if homosexuality is a learned behaviour, where do they learn it from?

[+HerNibs]

Religion is a choice. Sexual orientation is not.

Believing in a faith that says another person is immoral and then imposing those beliefs on another (innocent) person (especially one that ISN'T YOURS) is wrong.

Nibs

[Viral]

Too bad we can't sterilize all children at birth, reverse it once they have passed all of the tests and have a reliable source of income before they can become parents.

Take someone else's point, go way too far and try to tar them with that brush. Congrats you just took the first step in creating an ad hominem attack

Nobody should be raised in an environment where they are raised with racist, sexist or homophobic views. The parents can hold the opinions without forcing it on the child but we all know they wont.

The court was right on this one and i think you know it.

sorry but i have to put this in a different post.

any gay person who tells me they dont believe in god' date=' i will call a lier.

because if there is no god, then he couldnt made them wrong the gender. also if there is no god, then nature cannot make a mistake and make people the wrong gender. so if you think your the wrong gender then you have to believe in god.[/quote']

Oh wait... You're serious.

I think you're confusing gay people with transsexuals.

Gay = Sexual attraction towards males

Transsexualism = Desire to be another gender

Also, nobody claims "God made me the wrong gender" and just because you can't understand psychology doesn't mean God did it. You need to realise how complex the mind is and that for starters it's not a 'mistake' as such.

Nature can't make a mistake, eh? Well... ... Nature makes mistakes, how else do you describe birth defects? Oh wait, you don't understand biology as well so I'm expecting 'God did it', right? God makes people born with birth defects, there you have it folks. God specifically makes people born into a situation nobody would ever choose for themselves.

Nobody has to believe in God, regardless of whether they're gay or a transsexual.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Virus

[Fluffybunny]

Religion is a choice. Sexual orientation is not.

Believing in a faith that says another person is immoral and then imposing those beliefs on another (innocent) person (especially one that ISN'T YOURS) is wrong.

Nibs

You could make bumper stickers for a living. That is very concise

any gay person who tells me they dont believe in god, i will call a lier.

because if there is no god, then he couldnt made them wrong the gender. also if there is no god, then nature cannot make a mistake and make people the wrong gender. so if you think your the wrong gender then you have to believe in god

That is wrong on so many levels...it is like an onion of wrongness...

[Michelle]

Take someone else's point, go way too far and try to tar them with that brush. Congrats you just took the first step in creating an ad hominem attack

Nobody should be raised in an environment where they are raised with racist, sexist or homophobic views. The parents can hold the opinions without forcing it on the child but we all know they wont.

The court was right on this one and i think you know it.

Who exactly did I tar with that brush?

I happened to have been raised by a mother and step-dad that were both extremely bigoted. I rebelled against them and don't have a racist or homophobic bone in my body. Even though the family belonged to a Baptist church, that we regularly attended, I've never been religious either.

Like it or not, children are rarely brainwashed and will come to their own conclusions in their own time.

[Viral]

Who exactly did I tar with that brush?

I happened to have been raised by a mother and step-dad that were both extremely bigoted. I rebelled against them and don't have a racist or homophobic bone in my body. Even though the family belonged to a Baptist church, that we regularly attended, I've never been religious either.

Like it or not, children are rarely brainwashed and will come to their own conclusions in their own time.

Myself, you quoted my post saying "Too bad we can't sterilize all children at birth, reverse it once they have passed all of the tests and have a reliable source of income before they can become parents." and I'm guessing you're not that stupid and from your latest post I can deduce that you're on completely the other side of the fence to that view. It's clear you posted that with the intent of implying my view relates to that.

I think it's best to stop any likelihood of this happening, in fact, brainwashing is how religion works. However, you're clearly an intelligent person and realised their views were wrong but you are the exception, not the rule.

[Michelle]

Myself, you quoted my post saying "Too bad we can't sterilize all children at birth, reverse it once they have passed all of the tests and have a reliable source of income before they can become parents." and I'm guessing you're not that stupid and from your latest post I can deduce that you're on completely the other side of the fence to that view. It's clear you posted that with the intent of implying my view relates to that.

I think it's best to stop any likelihood of this happening, in fact, brainwashing is how religion works. However, you're clearly an intelligent person and realised their views were wrong but you are the exception, not the rule.

You guessed wrong...I was agreeing with you. Some people are too stupid to raise kids. It's too bad that any idiot can naturally have them without being screened as in the case of foster/adoptive parents.

And thanks for the intelligent part.

[Viral]

You guessed wrong...I was agreeing with you. Some people are too stupid to raise kids. It's too bad that any idiot can naturally have them without being screened as in the case of foster/adoptive parents.

And thanks for the intelligent part.

Oh apologies, I have a habit of assuming everything on the internet is likely to be an attack

I mean yeah, it'd be different if this these were the biological parents but given that they have to be screened, being outwardly homophobic wasn't the best of ideas. I mean what if their kid turns out to be gay? Also, given how strongly Christian they are... What if the child becomes Atheistic. It's just a whole world of bad.

Also, they're in their sixties, should they really be adopting?

And it's okay, I call 'em as I see 'em

[Michelle]

No problem, Virus. It's easy to take things the wrong way on the internet. I've been prone to it myself at times.

[mgessel]

and if they are not taken to church to learn the ways of that church or any other church, what do they make their choice on, you.

that is their decision to make that is just my opinion, if their parents are say christian, but the kid decides that Hinduism is right that should be their choice not the parents choice of which religion is right, the parent should not have any influence on a kids views thats why the world is so screwed up the parents grew up hating someone then they teach their kids that and it just keeps going and going, but my true opinion is that all forms of religion should be made illegal, and all things regarding it should be destroyed, if the world had no religion just imagine how much more peaceful this world would be without religious persecution.

[tipsy_munchkin]

That is wrong on so many levels...it is like an onion of wrongness...

Best possible reply to that I think.

On topic. At the end of the day the welfare of the child has to come above anything else. When selecting for foster care we are often talking about children who have already had a difficult or fragmented background. In light of this is is to be expected that prospective foster carers are shown not to discriminate based on race or sexual orientation.

For me something doesn't quite add up between the decision and the way the quote was worded. I cant help but feel the statement they have given has deliberately been watered down rather from the actual question and response that lead to the refusal.

[Leonardo]

so that is what is wrong, they are not willing to comply with a few people and tell a child who may or may not be gay that being gay is a good thing. they need to fight this as far as they can.

It's not a case of telling a child being gay is good, Daniel, it is a case of them not telling a child being gay is bad.

They have a choice to simply not make any value judgement, but they refuse to take that choice.

[itsnotoutthere]

I wonder if there were any questions about being prejudiced against any ethnic groups? That would surely knock out a lot of other potential foster parents. Especially if one of the children found out that they, or one of their parents, are from that ethnic group and didn't look it. Imagine the trauma that would cause them.

Yes, & presumably this court decision must surely exempt any muslim couples from fostering, bearing in mind the muslim attitude to homosexuals.

Edited March 2, 2011 by itsnotoutthere

[Fluffybunny]

It's not a case of telling a child being gay is good, Daniel, it is a case of them not telling a child being gay is bad.

They have a choice to simply not make any value judgement, but they refuse to take that choice.

Hmmm...based on previous statements it appears his grasp on the difference between gay and transsexual is limited at best:

any gay person who tells me they dont believe in god, i will call a lier.

because if there is no god, then he couldnt made them wrong the gender. also if there is no god, then nature cannot make a mistake and make people the wrong gender. so if you think your the wrong gender then you have to believe in god.

(I won't even bother with the major flaw in logic; that would be a waste of time)

And even more limited is his understanding of gays in general:

the ones i feel sorry for are the little boys who grow up with two moms who hate him because he is male. or th reverse because she has two dads who hate her because she is female. much better to grow up in a loving family who might not like a gay person. and yes it does happen that a person can grow up with a mom and a dad hating them just because they remind them of the other parent.

or even the bottom line topic at hand:

so that is what is wrong, they are not willing to comply with a few people and tell a child who may or may not be gay that being gay is a good thing. they need to fight this as far as they can.

Trying to argue the point you are trying to make Leonardo seems to be like Sisyphus rolling the rock uphill, only to have it fall back down for all eternity. Don't get me wrong, you are making a great point but communication takes two and I am not sure the other half even cares for input or another perspective...

[preacherman76]

This couples track record speaks for its self. They have raised 15 kids as loving caring foster parents. With all the abuse that goes on in foster homes, not directly advicating homosexuality should be the least of the states worries. Besides this opens a can of worms we certainly dont as a society want to open. According to this court every child raised in a Christian or Jewish, or Muslim home should be placed in the care of the state. This couple isnt even acused of trying to teach children anything about homosexuality. They are acused of not willfully teaching homosexual practice as a positive thing. When did it become a requirement to teach children in foster care that homosexuality is good? The kids are gonna learn that in school anyway. This is PC gone mad. And is reflective of what a evil world we live in.

[dekker87]

this is utter madness.

ok - the couples attitude towards gays is a little neanderthal...

but i'd rather kids grew up with parents with a questionable attitude towards gays than be brought up in care...with all the inherent abuse that entails.

i had much the same conversation with a gay fella at some club last weekend...we got onto the subject of gay marriage - no beef from me (erm...no pun intended) - but then he talked about him having children...and i had to say that gay couples bringing up children without a mother or a father present is something that troubles me....

BUT again - i'd rather a kid was brought up by 2 gay men, regardless of my reservations, who love that kid than that kid be brought up in care.

the kids are the most important thing here, getting them out of care and into the environs of a loving family...THAT should be the only qualification required..that the parents will love the kid and do their best for it.

[Guest]

The problem is (if it hasn't been stated yet) is what if the little foster child turns out to be gay. How will their attitude impact that child. Will he/she be subjected to gender realignment ?

The potential to harm the child is the matter at issue here.

Br Cornelius