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Christian Couple barred from Fostering


Leonardo

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Personally I would be against that, but I can understand the logic of why it wouldn't be allowed. Mixed race children generally have a harder time of it than single race couples and so there is again a potential harm involved.

Br Cornelius

i'm not talking about mixed race kids...i'm talking about mixed race adoptions..where the parents are a different 'race' to the children.

you're talkin nonsense about mixed race kids anyway but that's for another thread.

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Personally I would be against that, but I can understand the logic of why it wouldn't be allowed. Mixed race children generally have a harder time of it than single race couples and so there is again a potential harm involved.

Br Cornelius

Adoption is a very different situation than fostering, however I would draw your attention to some changes in the guidelines for adoption.

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i'm not talking about mixed race kids...i'm talking about mixed race adoptions..where the parents are a different 'race' to the children.

you're talkin nonsense about mixed race kids anyway but that's for another thread.

As I said I would not have an issue with that, and as Leonardo has pointed out - neither has the Government any longer.

Br Cornelius

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Thanks for the reply, Michelle.

As I said in my OP, I realise the decision would likely be divisive and that any decision would inevitably lead to some form of discrimination. In this case, I accept the child's needs (even if only potential needs) overrule the needs of the foster carers, as harsh as that may be on those carers who may be genuinely good people who just happen to hold a prejudice.

I also want to clarify that positive reinforcement need not mean using specific words - as you indicate when you say you might not use the word 'good' when discussing your nephew's lifestyle and choices with him. The OP article suggests that the couple saw the homosexual lifestyle not only as not good, but also not acceptable. This would not lead to positive reinforcement and I can understand why the decision went against them if that is the case.

The point is though...everyone has their biases but they don't all force them on their children. Parents may not always approve of the lifestyle of their children, whatever that may be. More often than not they talk it out, come to an undestanding on why they both feel the way they do but they don't stop loving them or disown them.

I don't agree that everyone needs to talk to a child and tell them that the homosexual lifestyle is a good thing before their is a valid reason for the discussion. It may never come up. If it does they can be neutral. I don't recall ever hearing my parents say anything for or against it until my nephew came out. That was when I found out how my mother felt about them. She wasn't thrilled and he knows that but she's never shown anything except love and support for him.

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They were asked a series of questions. One of which was somthing to the effect of 'Would you express homosexuality in a positive light' They said no. That was the incident.Think about it, if there was dirt on these people, the article would have said so.

The best way to handle these sorts of questions is to just ask them straight back, then they are put on the spot. But this all fits with many of the Gov's laws and general control freak attitude.

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Don't know who told you otherwise but they too are mistaken.

I don't care who thinks what as long as they don't impose their "thoughts" and beliefs onto some one else.

I don't think this couple is evil. I'm sure they are perfectly nice and have great intentions.

But, this couple, raising children are acting basically as employees of the state. They are paid, monitored and approved of by the state. Qualified to be good caregivers to children in need.

Years ago, it wasn't "wrong" to work children as adults, it wasn't wrong to beat your wife, it wasn't wrong to own other human beings as slaves. Today, we as a society have evolved to understand human rights.

As "employees" of the state this couple need to follow what the state dictates and what is appropriate. Today, it's NOT illegal or immoral (in the legal system) to be gay.

If this couple wants to continue caring for these children then they too need to evolve and recognize the rules of the state they are "working for".

Nibs

your going to tell me that people dont know how they feel about themselves now.

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what they need to do is weed out the ones doing it for money. not someone who is willing to open their door to a homeless or uncared for child. the ones doing it for money wont love. the others may love.

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your going to tell me that people dont know how they feel about themselves now.

Huh? I don't understand.

Nibs

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what they need to do is weed out the ones doing it for money. not someone who is willing to open their door to a homeless or uncared for child. the ones doing it for money wont love. the others may love.

I don't care why they do it as long as they are overseen and monitored.

Some people can have a dangerous and fatal sense of what "love" is. Having the state involved may not be the most comfortable but it's absolutely necessary.

*not saying it's perfect*

Nibs

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I don't care why they do it as long as they are overseen and monitored.

Some people can have a dangerous and fatal sense of what "love" is. Having the state involved may not be the most comfortable but it's absolutely necessary.

*not saying it's perfect*

Nibs

But the problem then becomes one of everyone and his dog covered with the blanket of Big Brother or don't you see what is happening here today?

Edited by Flashbangwollap
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"We are prepared to love and accept any child. All we were not willing to do was to tell a small child that the practice of homosexuality was a good thing."

Yea, sounds like hate mongers to me. :rolleyes:

Their lack of knowledge is clear by that statement, it's not about teaching the child that it's a good thing it's about not saying it negatively because it's just the same as being straight. At the end of the day you shouldn't make an issue of it by saying it's good or bad. However when you teach a child about love between a man and a woman it's right to say that men can love men and women can love women.

Plus the court had to think of the child and if the child is gay then imagine the fear and worry it'd face during adolescence. Stop thinking about the parents and think about the child.

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It is worth noting here that this couple weren't applying to adopt a child. They were applying to be respite carers, a paid position. If you are applying for what is essentially a job to take care of vulnerable children, then of course it isn't OK to refuse to accept homosexuality as a lifestyle choice. We're not talking about kids who don't have a home here, we're talking about people who are paid to provide temporary care for children. I think it's completely right that those children should be protected from any prejudices.

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Their lack of knowledge is clear by that statement, it's not about teaching the child that it's a good thing it's about not saying it negatively because it's just the same as being straight

err...not it isn't.

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err...not it isn't.

Just the same aside from preferring to have sex with the same gender, then?

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Just the same aside from preferring to have sex with the same gender, then?

not really....that's a pretty innocent and slightly naive view...

the whole dynamic is totally different.

i'm not homophobic btw but it is not true to say that heterosexual and homosexual lives are different only in the choice of sexual partner...

for a start you have the whole babys issue.

i was chatting to some gay fella recently and he was talking about how HE thought it wrong to bring up a kid without a mother present...and how that conflicted with his sexuality and also his desire to have kids...after discussing this issue for a long time i felt intensely sorry for this lad...he seemed resigned to a life of loneliness and heartache...

also factor in this equation that there are, relatively speaking, not many gay people so relationships are not as easily accessible as for straight people and you can start to see that a gay lifestyle is quite considerably different from a straight one.

i'm not saying one lifestyle is any better than the other...just that they are different.

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not really....that's a pretty innocent and slightly naive view...

the whole dynamic is totally different.

i'm not homophobic btw but it is not true to say that heterosexual and homosexual lives are different only in the choice of sexual partner...

for a start you have the whole babys issue.

i was chatting to some gay fella recently and he was talking about how HE thought it wrong to bring up a kid without a mother present...and how that conflicted with his sexuality and also his desire to have kids...after discussing this issue for a long time i felt intensely sorry for this lad...he seemed resigned to a life of loneliness and heartache...

also factor in this equation that there are, relatively speaking, not many gay people so relationships are not as easily accessible as for straight people and you can start to see that a gay lifestyle is quite considerably different from a straight one.

i'm not saying one lifestyle is any better than the other...just that they are different.

I know a lot of gay people and are friends with many of them and the way the live isn't any different. We all go to the same clubs, we all go to the same places, mess around, do stupid things, whatever 18 year olds these days do. Not to mention the dynamic completely changes when you have kids and I'm sure they'd find their feet sooner or later.

I feel sorry for that bloke too and I understand what you mean about dynamic but in every case I've seen or heard of that almost seems to be to their credit. I've always hypothesised it's because they have something to prove (being a gay couple) because people assume they wont be good without a mother.

Also, what I mentioned wasn't about homosexuals having kids but homosexuality itself. Kids should never be taught that someone is wrong or immoral because of the way they're born. The point I was making was that kids shouldn't be told again and again that people can be gay but instead that it's a normal thing. The more you push something the more segregating it can be because unless you approach it as if it's part of the norm then it will always be a point of contention with some people.

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i was chatting to some gay fella recently and he was talking about how HE thought it wrong to bring up a kid without a mother present...and how that conflicted with his sexuality and also his desire to have kids...after discussing this issue for a long time i felt intensely sorry for this lad...he seemed resigned to a life of loneliness and heartache...

Sounds exactly like the situation the Courts are trying to prevent wih this decision, a person who realises their homosexuality, but has been brought up in an environment where only heterosexuality - including the idea that raising a child is exclusively for "one man, one woman" - is promoted as being 'good'. Such environments breed the suffering you have described above.

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not really....that's a pretty innocent and slightly naive view...

the whole dynamic is totally different.

i'm not homophobic btw but it is not true to say that heterosexual and homosexual lives are different only in the choice of sexual partner...

for a start you have the whole babys issue.

i was chatting to some gay fella recently and he was talking about how HE thought it wrong to bring up a kid without a mother present...and how that conflicted with his sexuality and also his desire to have kids...after discussing this issue for a long time i felt intensely sorry for this lad...he seemed resigned to a life of loneliness and heartache...

There is no wrong or right. People could equally comment that single mothers are 'wrong' to bring up their kids without a father present. There is no magic formula that the combination of a mother and a father instills in a child, only parents, good and bad.

also factor in this equation that there are, relatively speaking, not many gay people so relationships are not as easily accessible as for straight people and you can start to see that a gay lifestyle is quite considerably different from a straight one.

That's complete rubbish. Many people lead very limited lives and never stray from their home town. Do you really think that they have easier access to a fulfilling, meaningful relationship than, say, a gay man living in a city?

'Gay' lives aren't different from heterosexual lives because 'gay lives' don't exist any more than 'heterosexual' lives do. People are different and unique, with their own sets of problems and struggles.

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There is no wrong or right. People could equally comment that single mothers are 'wrong' to bring up their kids without a father present. There is no magic formula that the combination of a mother and a father instills in a child, only parents, good and bad.

it was the gay fella i was talkin to who felt that way...not me.

That's complete rubbish. Many people lead very limited lives and never stray from their home town. Do you really think that they have easier access to a fulfilling, meaningful relationship than, say, a gay man living in a city?

strawman argument. compare a small town straight man to a small town gay man...not a gay man 'living in a city'...indeed the statistics alone prove otherwise.

'Gay' lives aren't different from heterosexual lives because 'gay lives' don't exist any more than 'heterosexual' lives do. People are different and unique, with their own sets of problems and struggles.

of course gay lives are different from those of straight men...jesus...i'm not bein homophobic but it's pretty ignorant to say there is no difference between a straight and a gay lifestyle.

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of course gay lives are different from those of straight men...jesus...i'm not bein homophobic but it's pretty ignorant to say there is no difference between a straight and a gay lifestyle.

Apart from going to gay bars (as opposed to regular ones) how exactly do the lifestyles differ?

I always find it amusing that people think there's a certain 'gay lifestyle' that all gay people do, whereas there's never a 'straight lifestyle'.

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Apart from going to gay bars (as opposed to regular ones) how exactly do the lifestyles differ?

I always find it amusing that people think there's a certain 'gay lifestyle' that all gay people do, whereas there's never a 'straight lifestyle'.

ok...let me ask you this - when you settle down for marriage or a long term relationship or whatever - it will be with a man...have you ever known a man to nag like a woman does!?!?

flippant of course...but with elements of truth...the actual dynamic of a man relating to a woman is different....regardless of sexuality.

and you cannot for a second tell me that the female sex drive is anywhere near the same as that of a man.

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ok...let me ask you this - when you settle down for marriage or a long term relationship or whatever - it will be with a man...have you ever known a man to nag like a woman does!?!?

flippant of course...but with elements of truth...the actual dynamic of a man relating to a woman is different....regardless of sexuality.

and you cannot for a second tell me that the female sex drive is anywhere near the same as that of a man.

*chuckles*

To an extent I suppose. However I've known men who nag all the time and women with a higher sex drive then me.

Of course there are little differences, but every relationship is different. Two hetrosexual couples can have completely different issues.

Really there's not that much different between a straight person and a gay one, the only difference being relationship based. Being gay doesn't automatically mean you like dancing to Abba or singing showtunes just like being straight doesn't automatically mean you like football or getting drunk.

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*chuckles*

To an extent I suppose. However I've known men who nag all the time and women with a higher sex drive then me.

Of course there are little differences, but every relationship is different. Two hetrosexual couples can have completely different issues.

Really there's not that much different between a straight person and a gay one, the only difference being relationship based. Being gay doesn't automatically mean you like dancing to Abba or singing showtunes just like being straight doesn't automatically mean you like football or getting drunk.

really? <looks around furtively>

i'm not saying that it makes people different from one another...nor that the lifestyle is necessarily different....just that the actual relationship itself and aspects of that relationship are different...

women with a higher sex drive then me

are you still in touch with them? can you give me their numbers?

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Having know one or two gay male couples who lived in suburban monogamous bliss for most of their lives - I can attest to the fact that we're all the same in the end.

Br Cornelius

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really? <looks around furtively>

i'm not saying that it makes people different from one another...nor that the lifestyle is necessarily different....just that the actual relationship itself and aspects of that relationship are different...

All relationships are different. The dynamics for every relationship (gay or straight) is always different, but at the same time there's not a vast difference between a gay couple and a straight one. Apart from one couple being hetrosexual and the other being homosexual there's not that many real differences, certainly nothing that's limited to just gay couples or straight couples. Like in your example, just because they're both men doesn't mean they have a higher sex drive then a straight couple ;)

are you still in touch with them? can you give me their numbers?

Heheh yes and no :P

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