We can't cut education

[AROCES]

Seems like the more we spend, the dumber our kids are.

That basically sums it up.

LOL

[AROCES]

Kids are seldom more educated than the dedication of the parents to education.

Then why do keep pouring billions into education?

[Wookietim]

I know for a fact it does. The numbers dont lie. Why are the other countries in the top 5? Cause they remove the children who are not successful, and work to the bone the children who are. Which obviously produces results. However I for one would rather go back to what made us even better then them, through freedom.

I notice that you still have not provided a direct answer to my question... is that because the second you do you will have to admit that the problem with education is not entirely due to the presence of federal spending?

[Wookietim]

That basically sums it up.

LOL

So, if we continue with that concept to it's logical end, if we spend nothing on education everybody would graduate as super-geniuses, right?

[AROCES]

You know, it's quite obvious that this countries educational system is not really working at peak efficiency. And that it's getting worse.

But the thing is, one doesn't decide to cut funding for something like this and expect it to get better. That logic doesn't work. Education is absolutely the one, basic, completely essential bit of spending we have if we want to remain competitive in the future as a country. We can't walk away from it and think that will help future generations in any possible way.

We spend the most in education than any country in the world.

Go figure if your conclusion makes sense.

[Wookietim]

We spend the most in education than any country in the world.

Go figure if your conclusion makes sense.

Again - how is cutting spending going to give us more?

BTW : DanielLost - That insult I made to you was mean. I apologize - having a crappy day today so if I lash out it's not your fault, it's mine.

[Ignus Fatuus]

Being a teacher and having discussions about these types of issues in conferences and at the lunch table and from hearing my college proffesors give input I say this ...

First ... get rid of standardized testing. Too much money being spent on a system that teaches our children for one simple test at the end of the year. Not according to what the student needs.

Second ... we need to stop treating all our students the same. No need for my special education students to be "required" to take Algebra and Chemistry and such when they get to high school. If you cause a student to feel like a failure you teach him or her that she is. Simple science, math, reading will help them grip the core contents. In high school most of them are still reading on a middle school, if not an elementary level. Teach them what they need to know ... not what is important for a stupid test. Just like our special needs students with autism or they are mentally retarded. Same applies for them. Algebra for these students??? Makes me want to vomit!!!

Third and most important stop the spending on that one test, stop the bleeding of cost towards books and bring to fact that we need to stay ahead of everyone else when it comes to technology. Our county just implemented a system where during snow days teachers are to send work through the internet to students on that day missed. You think most would agree to do this??? Plus nearly half of our students ... especially my special ed. students do not have access to the internet at home.

Somehow moronic idiotic nuts have taken over our education system. They may have high IQ's yet do not have one lick of common sense. Very pathetic and sick!!!

[danielost]

Well, let's see : He suggests making cuts based on savings in other areas. So the first sentence "Why not make those changes but not cut funding?" definitely applies.

The second sentence furthers that concept : "How does spending less on education magically translate into better educated students? Could you explain that?" - my point is that we shouldn't reduce funding even if we can move funding we currently spend to other areas of it.

My third sentence : "It seems many people's attitude is "If we spend less we will get more"... Tell me - how many times have you experienced that equation working in your own life?" applies to the overall concept of the thread.

To be honest, so far in every post where you have talked to me you have been a poster child for good reasons NOT to cut funding to education. After all, if the educational system produces you, then we really need to pour more money into it.

you do know that the founding fathers already camee up with a way to pay for everyones public education. it didnt not involve the federal or state governments to do so.

[Viral]

The problem with the American education system is the syllabus.

Throwing money at a problem does not make it go away and the government need to learn that

[Michelle]

Do you think that bringing back more vocational high schools would be of help, Ignus?

[Hurrikane]

More time needs to be spent in the classroom learning actual skills instead of pushing students into sports.

[danielost]

pesonal opinion lets take that money we using on feeding the breakfast and hire more teachers and build more schools, so that the kids can get more one on one time with the teacher.

the teacher needs to know their students to know what motavates them. they cant do this if there are too many kids in the class or if the teacher can only teach for a test.

i think the problem with most kids in school is they are getting bored, no challenge.

we are relying to much on drugs legal and illegal for everything.

[Wookietim]

you do know that the founding fathers already camee up with a way to pay for everyones public education. it didnt not involve the federal or state governments to do so.

That's nice. And what worked in the 1700's probably isn't gonna work without any change in the 21st century, so it's also a moot point.

[danielost]

That's nice. And what worked in the 1700's probably isn't gonna work without any change in the 21st century, so it's also a moot point.

really, what worked in the 1700s, 1800s early 1900s put us up to number 1 in education. what we started using in the late 1900s and early 2000s has dropped us below number 10.

i say we need to go back to what was working. and stop doing what isnt.

[Wookietim]

really, what worked in the 1700s, 1800s early 1900s put us up to number 1 in education. what we started using in the late 1900s and early 2000s has dropped us below number 10.

i say we need to go back to what was working. and stop doing what isnt.

I still don't see where anyone can tell me which countries that outstrip the US are that do not have some sort of federal spending on education... After all, if that is the only reason why things are bad, then you ought to be able to show quite a few countries that are ranked higher than the US that spend no federal money on eduction, right?

[danielost]

I still don't see where anyone can tell me which countries that outstrip the US are that do not have some sort of federal spending on education... After all, if that is the only reason why things are bad, then you ought to be able to show quite a few countries that are ranked higher than the US that spend no federal money on eduction, right?

that is because they all do. but they have been doing that for hundreds of years and they dont have the option that our founding fathers gave us, due to their distrust of the federal government. you know the one that they designed.

[Wookietim]

that is because they all do. but they have been doing that for hundreds of years and they dont have the option that our founding fathers gave us, due to their distrust of the federal government. you know the one that they designed.

Hmm... So, let's see : Every country that does better than us in education federally funds their education... Yet somehow the presence of federal money automatically means education will be bad... And you aren't seeing a problem with your logic?

[danielost]

Hmm... So, let's see : Every country that does better than us in education federally funds their education... Yet somehow the presence of federal money automatically means education will be bad... And you aren't seeing a problem with your logic?

no, because when we werent doing that we were number 1 now that we are doing what every other nation does we are number 10 or lower.

you see a problem with your agruement yet.

[Ignus Fatuus]

Do you think that bringing back more vocational high schools would be of help, Ignus?

When I was a junior in high school they took out our vocational studies including auto mechanics and carpendary. I remember first hand how so many simply dropped out of school the moment they found this out.

YES!!! Not everyone is cut out for college. We are teaching a system which shoves everyone towards going to college. That was a disaster and nobody has yet to figure it out. We need our carpenders, we need our auto mechanics ... even though vehicles today are computer operated. Would not matter. These kids would stay in school to learn that trade.

You made a very special comment with this!!! The only vocational studies we have now is agriculture which is also important and noted that many kids who drop out aim many of their classes towards these studies. It is something that they simply just feel more at ease with. Not every child is going to college. Again all this went out the door when they brought in KERA which was the first state "kentucky" to go to standardized teaching. Just a shame!!! Actually a disgrace!!!

[Wookietim]

no, because when we werent doing that we were number 1 now that we are doing what every other nation does we are number 10 or lower.

you see a problem with your agruement yet.

So, tell me - what is your solution? Stop all funding to education? Are you arguing that taking resources away from schools will somehow magically make all kids graduate as super geniuses?

[danielost]

So, tell me - what is your solution? Stop all funding to education? Are you arguing that taking resources away from schools will somehow magically make all kids graduate as super geniuses?

no my main arguement is get the federal government out of the equation.

[Wookietim]

no my main arguement is get the federal government out of the equation.

Why? Why is money from the federal govt bad? How is removing resources from education going to improve it?

Let me make my question more concrete : How is taking books out of a school library (aka, reducing funding to schools and therefore removinf the schools ability to stock their library) going to help kids read better? (As an example)

[Wookietim]

no my main arguement is get the federal government out of the equation.

I also ought to mention to you that the majority of educational funding comes from the state still...

[Ignus Fatuus]

More time needs to be spent in the classroom learning actual skills instead of pushing students into sports.

... our counties academic team made the finals with our academic team two years ago. When they even won the region was there a tour around town in a school bus honking with hundreds of cars behind it like there is when even our basketball team just won the district "girl" team even???

I went to college and obtained a degree in physical education. I did not want to coach, just teach the importance of fitness. Was I hired??? No ... the superintendent at the time told me straight up that I would not be hired for that position even in elementary school if I refused to coach. I told him that I was a teacher .. not a coach. Went back to college and obtained my masters in Special Education which I have succeded with. Could not be more happy with this success, yet health and fitness goes hand in hand with ability to learn and happiness with life.

Sad .. yet true. Seems our school has more priority with 5 guys and girls on a basketball court than every other child in the school. Seems that ignorance and Satan has a stance with this issue!!!

[danielost]

I also ought to mention to you that the majority of educational funding comes from the state still...

i dont care how much money the feds give education they need to get out of it, ie stop controling it.