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Persia

We can't cut education

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danielost

And that is all great. That means that roughly 4 countries in the world were doing that. In other words, just as I said : Not a lot of competition.

one of them was doing it before they even knew about the americas. and you said no competition.

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Wookietim

one of them was doing it before they even knew about the americas. and you said no competition.

Actually I my quotes was : "Has it ever occurred to you and Daniel that one of the reasons why education in the US was considered better for a long while was because we didn't have a lot of competition?"... NOT "No competition".

I don't like it when you try to lie about what I posted. Therefore further replies to me by you will simply be ignored.

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AROCES

What linked all of those countries when we were ahead of them? Think about what they all had happen to them during the 1940's... Especially Great Britain, Japan, Spain, and Belgium.... Ask yourself this : If your country had been routinely bombed to near defeat by Germany or if it had a nuclear bomb dropped on it by the US if you would be able to be immediately competitive with the US (Which suffered one real attack on only one military base)...

What has that got to do with their education????

I don't think those country ever made a claim their education suffered because of it, you are merely guessing now.

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danielost

Actually I my quotes was : "Has it ever occurred to you and Daniel that one of the reasons why education in the US was considered better for a long while was because we didn't have a lot of competition?"... NOT "No competition".

I don't like it when you try to lie about what I posted. Therefore further replies to me by you will simply be ignored.

so what your saying is education in this country isn't dropping. just that others are getting better. only problem i see is the experts say the opposite.

i mean when we start using the so called new math, in which 2 plus 2 might equal 4, there is a problem. but you dont see that do you.

when we stop teaching about the founding fathers because everyone knows who they are. did it ever occur to those idiots that everyone knows who they are because they were taught about them in school.

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Wookietim

What has that got to do with their education????

I don't think those country ever made a claim their education suffered because of it, you are merely guessing now.

It has everything to do with why one country was not competitive with another - in education as well as quite a few other areas. And one cannot claim that being beaten almost to complete submission in a war will not affect the educational system of a country.

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supervike

1. Suggesting that we take the idea of budget CUTS to schools off the table is not the same as giving education a "Blank check".

2. Let's see... New schools cut down on class sizes, allow the hiring of more teachers (With the resulting decrease in unemployment) and also decrease unemployment during the construction.

1. That is what I suggested in my first post, where you replied "But the thing is, one doesn't decide to cut funding for something like this and expect it to get better. That logic doesn't work. Education is absolutely the one, basic, completely essential bit of spending we have if we want to remain competitive in the future as a country. We can't walk away from it and think that will help future generations in any possible way. Sorry if I took it that way, but it seems to me you are recommending NO Cuts.

2. But building a new school, despite all those positives, still reduces the amount of money left to spend on the actual student. If education is the goal, why does it have to include "decreasing unemployment during construction". How does that help the actual student? For instance, buying a homeless person a new car isn't the wisest decision to make. There are benefits, surely, but it doesn't address the root problem.

All I'm saying is that any expenditure needs to be reviewed. I'm not saying there HAS to be cuts, but reviewing the books, being frugal when you can, and seperating NEEDS from WANTS, would almost guarantee some fat is trimmed.

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Ignus Fatuus

so what your saying is education in this country isn't dropping. just that others are getting better. only problem i see is the experts say the opposite.

i mean when we start using the so called new math, in which 2 plus 2 might equal 4, there is a problem. but you dont see that do you.

when we stop teaching about the founding fathers because everyone knows who they are. did it ever occur to those idiots that everyone knows who they are because they were taught about them in school.

It did occur to those idiots. There is a political biased approach to our education system now. It is controlled by a certain party. I belong to that party yet I do not agree with the approach. It is just like multiplication. We teachers here are not allowed to teach that table now ... it is to be taught at home and by using a calculator.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Just like the founding fathers approach. There was a reason it was taken out of our curriculums. Textbooks teach false things now. Just plainly stupid!!!

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Wookietim

1. That is what I suggested in my first post, where you replied "But the thing is, one doesn't decide to cut funding for something like this and expect it to get better. That logic doesn't work. Education is absolutely the one, basic, completely essential bit of spending we have if we want to remain competitive in the future as a country. We can't walk away from it and think that will help future generations in any possible way. Sorry if I took it that way, but it seems to me you are recommending NO Cuts.

2. But building a new school, despite all those positives, still reduces the amount of money left to spend on the actual student. If education is the goal, why does it have to include "decreasing unemployment during construction". How does that help the actual student? For instance, buying a homeless person a new car isn't the wisest decision to make. There are benefits, surely, but it doesn't address the root problem.

All I'm saying is that any expenditure needs to be reviewed. I'm not saying there HAS to be cuts, but reviewing the books, being frugal when you can, and seperating NEEDS from WANTS, would almost guarantee some fat is trimmed.

1. Recommending no CUTS is not the same as saying "Here's a blank check" - the latter implies that we simply spending blindly with no limits which is far from simply suggesting that we don't spend less.

2. I was simply pointing out the other benefits that are created as by-products. For the student we end up with smaller class sizes which allows more interaction with students by teachers - and that is just the first benefit for the student. For that mater, the other by-products help the student : More jobs for parents mean a more stable homelife, better paying jobs for those parents means less need to work multiple jobs and therefore more time parents can spend with kids and the more a parent becomes invested in their local community the more likely they are to encourage it to become safe and secure, which adds more stability t the students homelife which leads to better ability to be educated.

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supervike

1. Recommending no CUTS is not the same as saying "Here's a blank check" - the latter implies that we simply spending blindly with no limits which is far from simply suggesting that we don't spend less.

2. I was simply pointing out the other benefits that are created as by-products. For the student we end up with smaller class sizes which allows more interaction with students by teachers - and that is just the first benefit for the student. For that mater, the other by-products help the student : More jobs for parents mean a more stable homelife, better paying jobs for those parents means less need to work multiple jobs and therefore more time parents can spend with kids and the more a parent becomes invested in their local community the more likely they are to encourage it to become safe and secure, which adds more stability t the students homelife which leads to better ability to be educated.

3. I don't think we are too far off on what we are debating, actually. I think we both agree it's vastly important to our kids and our future.

:tu:

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danielost

there are two main things that this country needs to spend money on.

NASA research which for the most part the government keeps its hands out of, we lead in new tech.

education which at the moment the government controls completely, if we are to believe the teacher who is posting, which is failing.

it seems to me the leason is get government to fund but not control.

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conspiracybeliever

I wonder when people say our country was the greatest in education at one time were we including all the people at that time? I wonder where those numbers came from. I know we didn't include Indians. And we didn't include slaves. What is the time period you're speaking of?

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danielost

I wonder when people say our country was the greatest in education at one time were we including all the people at that time? I wonder where those numbers came from. I know we didn't include Indians. And we didn't include slaves. What is the time period you're speaking of?

i dont think indians on reservations count today, since technically reservations are seperate nations.

i count it up until the 1950s whenever the department of education took over.

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AROCES

I wonder when people say our country was the greatest in education at one time were we including all the people at that time? I wonder where those numbers came from. I know we didn't include Indians. And we didn't include slaves. What is the time period you're speaking of?

When you say you are the greatest or number one, it does not mean everyone is a Straight A student or a genius.:rolleyes:

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MichaelW

if that is the product of a government run education. we can do a lot better here in the usa.

yes there are plenty of countries that run their education systems. my point is that when we were not being run by a government, our kids were the smartest on the planet now they are average at best.

average is ok if that is all we want. but we can do better.

That is the product of government run education systems. If anything, what the US needs is federal standarized benchmarks so that students can be set according to the benchmarks. Personally, I'd advocate what we do in NZ. Perhaps it is what we can offer in return for our semi-privatized healthcare system. Besides, according to an entirely new study, conducted in 2010, NZ was ranked 1st in education. So, maybe the Americans are doing it wrong.

I know that most American students learn American history at school and all this other domestically focused stuff. Do they teach anything else that isn't to do with the US? I know they teach Spanish in most southern states and French in Louisiana, but the latter is more historical than actual functional. In NZ, I'm learning Spanish and French (the latter I've been doing for the past four and a half years) and I think it is necessary. Partly because of many holiday spots in the Pacific are French.

I want to try something.

True or False: New Zealand and the United States share maritime territorial boundaries.

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danielost

That is the product of government run education systems. If anything, what the US needs is federal standarized benchmarks so that students can be set according to the benchmarks. Personally, I'd advocate what we do in NZ. Perhaps it is what we can offer in return for our semi-privatized healthcare system. Besides, according to an entirely new study, conducted in 2010, NZ was ranked 1st in education. So, maybe the Americans are doing it wrong.

I know that most American students learn American history at school and all this other domestically focused stuff. Do they teach anything else that isn't to do with the US? I know they teach Spanish in most southern states and French in Louisiana, but the latter is more historical than actual functional. In NZ, I'm learning Spanish and French (the latter I've been doing for the past four and a half years) and I think it is necessary. Partly because of many holiday spots in the Pacific are French.

I want to try something.

True or False: New Zealand and the United States share maritime territorial boundaries.

we already have those benchmarks, it is called the national test. read what the teacher on here says about it.

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BlindMessiah

That is the product of government run education systems. If anything, what the US needs is federal standarized benchmarks so that students can be set according to the benchmarks. Personally, I'd advocate what we do in NZ. Perhaps it is what we can offer in return for our semi-privatized healthcare system. Besides, according to an entirely new study, conducted in 2010, NZ was ranked 1st in education. So, maybe the Americans are doing it wrong.

I know that most American students learn American history at school and all this other domestically focused stuff. Do they teach anything else that isn't to do with the US? I know they teach Spanish in most southern states and French in Louisiana, but the latter is more historical than actual functional. In NZ, I'm learning Spanish and French (the latter I've been doing for the past four and a half years) and I think it is necessary. Partly because of many holiday spots in the Pacific are French.

I want to try something.

True or False: New Zealand and the United States share maritime territorial boundaries.

Does World History count? I don't know what the boundary lines are, but if I had to guess, I'd say yes due to your proximity to Hawaii.

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conspiracybeliever

When you say you are the greatest or number one, it does not mean everyone is a Straight A student or a genius.:rolleyes:

I know it doesn't mean everyone is a straight A student. I just wonder how they came to that conclusion.

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FurthurBB

There are ways to cut education that won't effect the students. How about starting with combining school districts at the administration level? By cutting a third of the districts out and combining them, we would save millions in pay, benefits, pensions, etc.

We could do away with the school breakfast funding. Why are we feeding them breakfast anyway? Most of those that get breakfast at school already get government assistance anyway. Why aren't they feeding their children? That shouldn't be a schools problem.

However, we should start by cutting every other program our government funds first. Corporate Welfare? Farm Subsidies for ConAg and Monsanto? Tax breaks for Big Oil? Why have we not cut all or these programs completely out of the budget? America spends $1.13 Billion a day on interest on the national debt acquired since 1980. Our pay checks haven't been worth less since the Depression. That is the main issue we face. We are being bled dry by the huge debt our elected officials have told us for years would never effect our economy! We were lied to again.

I cannot agree to combining school districts. I live in a top 2% school district and it is because of the parents. Now you want us to combine with the lazy parents who only care about sports? That would be a big no.

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FurthurBB

Federal government has no constitutional authority to have anything to do with education. And we were #1 in the world, before the fed got involved.

And looking at the logical progression of the US staying about the same and other countries constantly improving would have nothing to do with that, right?

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MichaelW

Does World History count? I don't know what the boundary lines are, but if I had to guess, I'd say yes due to your proximity to Hawaii.

It depends on what you learn in World History. I'm currently doing Global Disparities in Social Studies at "high school" at the moment (my final year to be exact) and we're currently doing a study on the European Union.

As for the question, I was actually referring to American Samoa, as I'm assuming it's still either part of the US or a protectorate. We have maritime borders to the north, east and south of American Samoa.

But that's off topic. Can people choose subjects at high schools in the US?

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S.Tx.Rocker

Just like if your personal budget was in turmoil, I think it's only wise to look at ALL expenditures very closely.

Then you'd weigh the importance and need of every expenditure.

I'm sure we can find places to cut every single program, or at least do them more efficiently.

Defense, education, roads, etc etc. Anything and everything should at least be looked at.

I agree with you on this, the only problem is most politicians will weigh the importance and needs for their own benefits and not for the everday person. It's hard to find politicians that care about your everyday Joe and his family.

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Wookietim

I agree with you on this, the only problem is most politicians will weigh the importance and needs for their own benefits and not for the everday person. It's hard to find politicians that care about your everyday Joe and his family.

Something that occurs to me is that one thing that might be done if your personal budget was in turmoil, you might ask for a raise... You probably wouldn't tell your boss to cut your paycheck and then say to yourself "Well, I will just cut down on my food for the rest of my life". But that is exactly what the govt (By way of the GOP) has done - handed out tax cuts and then decided to cut back on important things.

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danielost

Something that occurs to me is that one thing that might be done if your personal budget was in turmoil, you might ask for a raise... You probably wouldn't tell your boss to cut your paycheck and then say to yourself "Well, I will just cut down on my food for the rest of my life". But that is exactly what the govt (By way of the GOP) has done - handed out tax cuts and then decided to cut back on important things.

so tell me, if we dont cut back on anything and we raise taxes and raise spending, how long before we have to do away with everything. ie when all of your money is being tied up in paying all of your bills and you have no money for food at all.

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Wookietim

so tell me, if we dont cut back on anything and we raise taxes and raise spending, how long before we have to do away with everything. ie when all of your money is being tied up in paying all of your bills and you have no money for food at all.

Daniel, I think I made it quite clear that you and I were not discussing this anymore when you came forward as a person that fully believes that the govt is full of evil overlords that want to enslave humanity earlier in this thread. Go respond to someone else because I don't think that there is any common ground we can use to have a discussion on.

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danielost

Daniel, I think I made it quite clear that you and I were not discussing this anymore when you came forward as a person that fully believes that the govt is full of evil overlords that want to enslave humanity earlier in this thread. Go respond to someone else because I don't think that there is any common ground we can use to have a discussion on.

fine but you know i am right.

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