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Persia

We can't cut education

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Wookietim

LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You telling us now it will work someday?!

A generation of DUMB kids before your plan will finally work!

And you ain't even DRUNK! This is the laugfh of the day.!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

So, you are arguing that any fix to education will have to have immediate effects? Are you actually that insane?

Sorry, but the truth is that education is a long term process - it is not amenable to short term fixes or goals. One cannot expect a change in education to immediately lead to a panacea in the educational process. To expect otherwise is not only silly but also dangerously out of touch.

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danielost

No. I am suggesting that your suggestions might not carry as much weight as the actual professionals in the field do. I will defer to people who actually know what they are talking about rather than a panic-stricken far right wingnut who seems to only care about saving money rather than preparing the next generation for the challenges they will face from the rest of the world.

When your main argument seems to be that spending money on education somehow is a form of mind control by the federal govt, I tend to start discounting what you have to say. And when you follow that concept up by suggesting a revamp of how we evaluate how well students do by failing the standard you suggest, I feel I can completely discount what you have to say. And, of course, deciding to play the "Sad little victim that is being picked on" when that is pointed out takes you into the negative in that respect.

Because I know that to you and Daniellost, she is a magical gnome that can say no wrong and that it would annoy both of you to be reminded that she is not.

i havent said anything about palin yet. other than to defend her for unfounded charges.

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danielost

So, you are arguing that any fix to education will have to have immediate effects? Are you actually that insane?

Sorry, but the truth is that education is a long term process - it is not amenable to short term fixes or goals. One cannot expect a change in education to immediately lead to a panacea in the educational process. To expect otherwise is not only silly but also dangerously out of touch.

true it has taken us about 60 years to get into the fix and will take another 60 to get out of it, but that time doesnt start until we fix the problem. but we have been educated that the answer is the government when in reality it is the problem.

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Wookietim

true it has taken us about 60 years to get into the fix and will take another 60 to get out of it, but that time doesnt start until we fix the problem. but we have been educated that the answer is the government when in reality it is the problem.

No, actually we haven't spent 60 years on education. We spend about 2-6 years on every fix, say "It hasn't worked yet" and then try something else. That is not actually trying to fix a problem with long term changes - that is spending a short while on it, losing interest and trying something else. Long term problems are not fixable by a policy of changing things in the short term willy nilly.

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danielost

No, actually we haven't spent 60 years on education. We spend about 2-6 years on every fix, say "It hasn't worked yet" and then try something else. That is not actually trying to fix a problem with long term changes - that is spending a short while on it, losing interest and trying something else. Long term problems are not fixable by a policy of changing things in the short term willy nilly.

i have only one fix for it, GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT.

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Wookietim

i have only one fix for it, GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT.

Which is not a fix as much as it is a bumper sticker. Which is why your whole argument is less than useless - the conservative right seems unable to think in longer terms that what can fit on the bumper of a car.

Edited by Wookietim

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Ignus Fatuus

Which is not a fix as much as it is a bumper sticker. Which is why your whole argument is less than useless - the conservative right seems unable to think in longer terms that what can fit on the bumper of a car.

Though not an extremist I am a liberal left and a teacher. The government when they put their foots up our educational donks caused a very large problem.

Government out ... proffesionals back in. Or our children are screwed and so are we.

Yet this is not a conservative vs. liberal converstaion ... being that it seems that has taken place with all the arguing going on lately with this post. This is not a problem being too late to fix. It is very fixable. Just as with the first start of standardized teaching, being here in Kentucky. Proffesionals wrote KERA and politicians went in and changed it so much that those pro's did not know what KERA was when it was placed back in their hands.

Those who have never spent a day in their lives teaching should not tell those with doctorate degrees how to teach our children. Yet they have ... and we all see what has happened!!! :hmm:

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AROCES

Though not an extremist I am a liberal left and a teacher. The government when they put their foots up our educational donks caused a very large problem.

Government out ... proffesionals back in. Or our children are screwed and so are we.

Yet this is not a conservative vs. liberal converstaion ... being that it seems that has taken place with all the arguing going on lately with this post. This is not a problem being too late to fix. It is very fixable. Just as with the first start of standardized teaching, being here in Kentucky. Proffesionals wrote KERA and politicians went in and changed it so much that those pro's did not know what KERA was when it was placed back in their hands.

Those who have never spent a day in their lives teaching should not tell those with doctorate degrees how to teach our children. Yet they have ... and we all see what has happened!!! :hmm:

Yup, this is not a Liberal vs conservative. Just so happen the GOP sees it the way you do, and the left does not want to let it get out of their control.

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Wookietim

Yup, this is not a Liberal vs conservative. Just so happen the GOP sees it the way you do, and the left does not want to let it get out of their control.

Except that is not what is being said. Changes can occur - but changes still need money to be done. Taking money away so that those changes are even more difficult to make just because the money is somehow tainted by being from DC rather than a state capital is simply a silly and rather stupid way to look at things.

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AROCES

Except that is not what is being said. Changes can occur - but changes still need money to be done. Taking money away so that those changes are even more difficult to make just because the money is somehow tainted by being from DC rather than a state capital is simply a silly and rather stupid way to look at things.

The United States spend the most in Education than any country in the world.

And here you are still insisting money is the solution.

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Wookietim

The United States spend the most in Education than any country in the world.

And here you are still insisting money is the solution.

Incorrect. Nowhere have I suggested that simply spending money is the solution. I have simply suggested that cutting resources to education by spending less money is not going to lead to a solution. There is a difference.

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AROCES

Incorrect. Nowhere have I suggested that simply spending money is the solution. I have simply suggested that cutting resources to education by spending less money is not going to lead to a solution. There is a difference.

Simply spending didn't as you agree, correct?

So what worries you so much if we spend less?

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Wookietim

Simply spending didn't as you agree, correct?

So what worries you so much if we spend less?

Simply spending didn't... what? You really do have to at least try to post full thoughts rather than these random word groupings you seem prone to.

All I have said is that reducing the amount of resources is not going to help things. Telling teachers to do more with less is not a sure route to perfection.

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AROCES

Simply spending didn't... what? You really do have to at least try to post full thoughts rather than these random word groupings you seem prone to.

All I have said is that reducing the amount of resources is not going to help things. Telling teachers to do more with less is not a sure route to perfection.

Your own words

Nowhere have I suggested that simply spending money is the solution.

Go on. You are on a quick sand now, the more you struggle the faster you sink.

LOL :lol:

Edited by AROCES

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danielost

Except that is not what is being said. Changes can occur - but changes still need money to be done. Taking money away so that those changes are even more difficult to make just because the money is somehow tainted by being from DC rather than a state capital is simply a silly and rather stupid way to look at things.

it isn't about the money, if you are trying to fill a bottomless pit it doesn't matter how big of a shovel you use it will not be filled.

i don't care how much money education gets, i care about how it is being used. right now it is being used to fill bureaucrat's pockets.

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danielost

Simply spending didn't... what? You really do have to at least try to post full thoughts rather than these random word groupings you seem prone to.

All I have said is that reducing the amount of resources is not going to help things. Telling teachers to do more with less is not a sure route to perfection.

you have a teacher on here telling you how to fix the problem. but you dont want to here it.

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Wookietim

Your own words

Nowhere have I suggested that simply spending money is the solution.

Go on. You are on a quick sand now, the more you struggle the faster you sink.

LOL :lol:

Simply spending money is not the solution. But simply taking money away is also not the solution. Try to keep up.

Money and resources are needed for any possible change in the educational system. This attitude that the conservative right has that can be labelled "Spend less money and everything will be alright" is silly in the extreme. We cannot effect any useful changes for less money. For that matter, we cannot expect to educate at all by simply spending less.

And this "Government is the problem" attitude has to be called out for the further silliness it is. Govt is not the problem nor are they the enemy. There are no enemies in this - other than those that have decided that allowing kids less resources from which to learn would be fun.

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Wookietim

you have a teacher on here telling you how to fix the problem. but you dont want to here it.

That's nice. And we have other teachers who say differently. Just because the one here agrees with your prejudices does not mean that we ought to abandon all other considerations. And I will point out - simply reducing money to education is not going to achieve what ignus has suggested either. Nor is following your simple minded "Govt is our enemy" bumper sticker logic. Such simpleminded hogwash is what lies at the center of the problem.

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AROCES

Simply spending money is not the solution. But simply taking money away is also not the solution. Try to keep up.

Money and resources are needed for any possible change in the educational system. This attitude that the conservative right has that can be labelled "Spend less money and everything will be alright" is silly in the extreme. We cannot effect any useful changes for less money. For that matter, we cannot expect to educate at all by simply spending less.

And this "Government is the problem" attitude has to be called out for the further silliness it is. Govt is not the problem nor are they the enemy. There are no enemies in this - other than those that have decided that allowing kids less resources from which to learn would be fun.

Simply spending is not the solution. But if you don't spend then spending becomes a factor.

You look like you are arguing with yourself now. Keep going, you now have confused yourself.

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AROCES

you have a teacher on here telling you how to fix the problem. but you dont want to here it.

Is the Teacher a Union member? For that makes a difference....

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Wookietim

Simply spending is not the solution. But if you don't spend then spending becomes a factor.

You look like you are arguing with yourself now. Keep going, you now have confused yourself.

I am far from arguing with myself. I am not really sure what you are not understanding in what I have posted... therefore I have come to the conclusion that you are one of two things : Either acting dense to be irritating or really and truly stupid. Which one is it?

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danielost

I am far from arguing with myself. I am not really sure what you are not understanding in what I have posted... therefore I have come to the conclusion that you are one of two things : Either acting dense to be irritating or really and truly stupid. Which one is it?

i know what your saying you want to close your eyes and blindly throw money at the problem until it fixes itself.

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AROCES

I am far from arguing with myself. I am not really sure what you are not understanding in what I have posted... therefore I have come to the conclusion that you are one of two things : Either acting dense to be irritating or really and truly stupid. Which one is it?

You are pretending that you still understand what you are saying, but we all can see how confused you are now............:rofl:

See, that is what happens before your entire head sink in the sand, just yell anything like, stupid. LOL :lol:

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Ignus Fatuus

you have a teacher on here telling you how to fix the problem. but you dont want to here it.

Thanks Danielost ... they just do not want to hear it. It is not just my opinion I have stated here, it is nearly if not every fellow teacher I have been around in my 14 years in teaching.

Logic states that not every kid is the same. Yet we teach them in this manner. Bush stated no kid left behind, yet unfortunately those words and programs did exactly that. When we are teaching children with an IQ of 70 chemistry that is simply stupid.

We are not at the point where things cannot be fixed. Actually it would not be that hard. Just have to give the government the boot and let folks with Doctorates in education do their job. Again ... very simple.

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Ignus Fatuus

That's nice. And we have other teachers who say differently. Just because the one here agrees with your prejudices does not mean that we ought to abandon all other considerations. And I will point out - simply reducing money to education is not going to achieve what ignus has suggested either. Nor is following your simple minded "Govt is our enemy" bumper sticker logic. Such simpleminded hogwash is what lies at the center of the problem.

Nope .. maybe in other states, yet all my fellow teachers during those 30 minute lunch breaks discuss the same. Also not a person who wants spending cut .. just allow those with doctorate degrees to spread the money in better situations. We do not need educational fincances to be cut. So I agree with you with that.

If I stated somewhere that I wanted funding cut ... my bad. I simply imply to spend it more wisely. Then on to our government being the problem. This I agree with. They have no right to tell again those with doctorate degrees, decades of experience how to teach or set up our system when they have never spent one day in a classroom setting.

Kind of like a farmer from Idaho with not one day experience on the ocean telling a srimp boat captain where to find the shrimp .. :lol:

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