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Persia

We can't cut education

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ninjadude

Why do you have to compare with others?

Really? Seriously? are you trolling again?

So that you know if you are making progress or not.

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ninjadude

Each district with its own regional failures or challenges, and you have a money pit with no bottom.

that does not follow.

And, no real acccountability at any level.

also not true.

Rich districts want to keep their 'perks', which helps the residents' property values.

Rich school districts have perks? What are these? and how in the world do they help PROPERTY values?

However, in a state like Ohio there are well over 600 school districts in a state with only 88 counties. Rural counties may only have one district, while more populous counties may have several dozen. Neither situation helps our kids.

that does not follow either.

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AROCES

Really? Seriously? are you trolling again?

So that you know if you are making progress or not.

By comparing with others or setting a standard that one has to meet?

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ninjadude

How do you determine how students are doing??? You teach them and put emphasis on everything but that one end of the year test. If the student still cannot add three digit numbers you do not teach them algebra. If they cannot read on a certain level you do not shove Shakphere in front of their face for homework.

Simple as that. More emphasis on individual development plans.

I see you didn't answer the question. Just "teaching" them does NOT determine how well they are doing. They have to be tested as well. Individual development doesn't really tell us anything about how the student is doing.

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ninjadude

OK, what has the magical gnome done so BAD as a Mayor, Governor and other position she has done or held?

Quit.

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AROCES

Quit.

If she is that bad as you claim, why does it bother you she quit. Aren't you suppose to say it's one good thing she did?

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ninjadude

That's up the the Alaskans.

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Wookietim

i know what your saying you want to close your eyes and blindly throw money at the problem until it fixes itself.

No, you don't seem to have a grasp on what I am saying. The fixes to education are going to be complex and they are not going to be solved with a single thing - the solution is not "Get govt out of it" or "Get rid of standardized testing" - you are looking for a single silver bullet and that is a simplistic and unrealistic approach.

But one thing that certainly will hurt education is spending less money on the problem. Money equals resources. Kids will not learn to read better if they have less books. They will not learn better with less teachers or bigger class sizes. And less money leads to less resources like that.

You do not fix a problem by doing less - you don't walk away from it and essentially tell it "Do more with less" and hope it will fix itself. And you don't approach a complex problem with solutions that fit on bumper stickers.

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danielost

that does not follow.

also not true.

Rich school districts have perks? What are these? and how in the world do they help PROPERTY values?

that does not follow either.

links

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danielost

Really? Seriously? are you trolling again?

So that you know if you are making progress or not.

in education it should be an individual progress not a class progress.

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danielost

No, you don't seem to have a grasp on what I am saying. The fixes to education are going to be complex and they are not going to be solved with a single thing - the solution is not "Get govt out of it" or "Get rid of standardized testing" - you are looking for a single silver bullet and that is a simplistic and unrealistic approach.

But one thing that certainly will hurt education is spending less money on the problem. Money equals resources. Kids will not learn to read better if they have less books. They will not learn better with less teachers or bigger class sizes. And less money leads to less resources like that.

You do not fix a problem by doing less - you don't walk away from it and essentially tell it "Do more with less" and hope it will fix itself. And you don't approach a complex problem with solutions that fit on bumper stickers.

when you fix a leak first thing you have to do is find out where and fix the pipe. but if the pipe is corrupt you have to replace it. the government is corrupt arent you one of those who keeps saying that. sometimes you have to put in older pipe you replaced with the newer pipe, because it was leaking or easier to fix. what you dont do is keep appling calking to it if it isn't fixing the leak.

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Wookietim

when you fix a leak first thing you have to do is find out where and fix the pipe. but if the pipe is corrupt you have to replace it. the government is corrupt arent you one of those who keeps saying that. sometimes you have to put in older pipe you replaced with the newer pipe, because it was leaking or easier to fix. what you dont do is keep appling calking to it if it isn't fixing the leak.

And you keep assuming that we can simply spend less money. Here's a suggestion - spend the same amount but shift where the spending is. There is no reason to reduce our spending on education - that is one of the very things that a country ought to be spending on. Don't discourage people from becoming teachers byu paying them less. Don't spend less on resources for the kids. If you save money ion one area, spend that on the other areas.

But apparently to you that isn't the right thing to do. You seem to be arguing that spending ought to go down - if we save money on one area, don't use it to help the other areas. After all - making sure kids have books isn't important if you yearn for a country in which everybody is wage slaves to large corporations. That does seem to be the attitude on the part of the conservative right. Reduce spending and forget about the future, right?

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danielost

And you keep assuming that we can simply spend less money. Here's a suggestion - spend the same amount but shift where the spending is. There is no reason to reduce our spending on education - that is one of the very things that a country ought to be spending on. Don't discourage people from becoming teachers byu paying them less. Don't spend less on resources for the kids. If you save money ion one area, spend that on the other areas.

But apparently to you that isn't the right thing to do. You seem to be arguing that spending ought to go down - if we save money on one area, don't use it to help the other areas. After all - making sure kids have books isn't important if you yearn for a country in which everybody is wage slaves to large corporations. That does seem to be the attitude on the part of the conservative right. Reduce spending and forget about the future, right?

ok i have a question, how much should you be making before it isnt a slave wage.

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Wookietim

ok i have a question, how much should you be making before it isnt a slave wage.

Pay should be high enough that an average person can work just one job and still pay their bills. But that is not the topic of this thread. Even though I know that you conservatives have a utopia where the rich hold all the power and there is no such thing as a middle class, that is not a future most people are excited to work towards.

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AROCES

when you fix a leak first thing you have to do is find out where and fix the pipe. but if the pipe is corrupt you have to replace it. the government is corrupt arent you one of those who keeps saying that. sometimes you have to put in older pipe you replaced with the newer pipe, because it was leaking or easier to fix. what you dont do is keep appling calking to it if it isn't fixing the leak.

No difference to an old car like a YUGO that is almost dead, but the owner keeps trying to fix it and keep it running.

Could have save him more money to buy a new one but the owner is proud of the car and keeps insisting it can be fixed.

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AROCES

Pay should be high enough that an average person can work just one job and still pay their bills. But that is not the topic of this thread. Even though I know that you conservatives have a utopia where the rich hold all the power and there is no such thing as a middle class, that is not a future most people are excited to work towards.

You don't make wages catch up to the cost of living, you make cost of living affordable.

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Wookietim

No difference to an old car like a YUGO that is almost dead, but the owner keeps trying to fix it and keep it running.

Could have save him more money to buy a new one but the owner is proud of the car and keeps insisting it can be fixed.

Yes - because fixing cars and plumbing is absolutely no different than fixing education, right?

It's simplistic thinking like that that is destroying this country.

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AROCES

Yes - because fixing cars and plumbing is absolutely no different than fixing education, right?

It's simplistic thinking like that that is destroying this country.

Nope it is insisting what is a proven failure that is destroying this country.

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Wookietim

Nope it is insisting what is a proven failure that is destroying this country.

Yes - because solutions to complex problems that fit on a bumper sticker are always the right solutions. At least "Right" in the sense that those solutions are the ones that conservatives can think of.

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AROCES

Yes - because solutions to complex problems that fit on a bumper sticker are always the right solutions. At least "Right" in the sense that those solutions are the ones that conservatives can think of.

Nope, the left makes it a complex problem by insisting the system that failed can be patched up

Spending Billions just so the same system that failed can be kept.

Like I said, it's the control of it the left is fighting for.

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Wookietim

Nope, the left makes it a complex problem by insisting the system that failed can be patched up

Spending Billions just so the same system that failed can be kept.

Like I said, it's the control of it the left is fighting for.

Again - kids won't learn to read better if they have less book. Teacher can't teach better on less pay with larger class sizes. Providing more books, better teachers and smaller class sizes isn't going to be done by spending less. It is only in the fantasy world of the conservative that more can be done with less.

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AROCES

Again - kids won't learn to read better if they have less book. Teacher can't teach better on less pay with larger class sizes. Providing more books, better teachers and smaller class sizes isn't going to be done by spending less. It is only in the fantasy world of the conservative that more can be done with less.

Nope, other countries spend less and are doing way better.

The left in this country are the only ones who argues Billions for book .

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Wookietim

Nope, other countries spend less and are doing way better.

The left in this country are the only ones who argues Billions for book .

Other countries also have UHC and have strict gun control... But I suspect that you would be against following suit on those points.

Your ideas are silly, simplistic and you are, simply put, wrong. We cannot reduce resources to kids and expect them to learn better. If that were true, then the logically perfect way to make ever kid a super-genius would be to raise them with no formal education... and that is obviously not a logical way to achieve that.

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AROCES

The problem with the American education system is the syllabus.

Throwing money at a problem does not make it go away and the government need to learn that

More money is the only thing the ones in control can use as an argument, what else can they say????

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AROCES

Other countries also have UHC and have strict gun control... But I suspect that you would be against following suit on those points.

Your ideas are silly, simplistic and you are, simply put, wrong. We cannot reduce resources to kids and expect them to learn better. If that were true, then the logically perfect way to make ever kid a super-genius would be to raise them with no formal education... and that is obviously not a logical way to achieve that.

See, now you throw in guns but a car you won't.

Confused again? There is no way out of it for you are defending what is indefensible.

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