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Tom B

To all the skeptics out there

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The Paranormal Skeptic

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I'm generally considered a hard core skeptic (and actually accused of being a troll) but I go to haunted houses, religious groups, UFO discussions, etc. because I WANT and HOPE for something to convince me.

I fall under this same category

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Its Mii

I completely agree with LadyHay and Paul, very well said.

There is too many claims of people who have experienced paranormal things, it's pointless to sit and argue whether they saw it or not. What we should question is WHAT IT IS. I really don't like the word ghost because the first thing that pops into people's head is a dead person. Truth is we don't know what it is. I have experienced plenty, I still don't know what it is, but I doubt it's a dead person running around. We have to keep an open mind to the possibilities if we repeatedly label it the dead we stop trying to figure out what it is. Paranormal skeptic mentioned thunder, and how people considered it Zeus' anger... Well what if those people had not tried to figure out what it was?? If they had just said "OH it's Zeus anger" or if someone had said.. It doesn't exist, you don't know anything about quantum physics don't talk to me. What then?? Is it not the same thing?? I believe I am the true definition of a skeptic, I believe there is something out there but I question what it may be, or how we go about proving it. I'm not going to sit there taking aims at the person telling the story but the story itself, if it is too unbelievable I disregard it and move on.

I recently started practicing readings with success but I still question whether it is the dead I'm seeing or just a fragment of the memories the person is holding. It's like I am receiving the emotions they received from this person and the image that was left with them. In other words the dead didn't come to me, but the person's thoughts did. Their feeling for the person they are asking me to contact are being received by me.... But I don't know because I honestly question it all.

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Pauly Dangerously

UNICORN HATER!!!!

Just kidding. :)

I mostly agree with you about the argument of open vs closed mind.

I'm generally considered a hard core skeptic (and actually accused of being a troll) but I go to haunted houses, religious groups, UFO discussions, etc. because I WANT and HOPE for something to convince me.

I just wanted to post what I considered close minded and why I don't consider myself close minded but do consider myself a "hard core" skeptic.

Nibs

Lol. I know what you meant, I just get tired of some of the cliche insults that get thrown around in hopes that people will just stop posting for fear of being seen as one way or another. It gets a little frustrating whne ther is a legitamate subject being discussed and someone says, "Well yeah, because you're close minded is why". And that invariably starts the back and forth that follows. You and I agree on most points I think. The benefit of experience.

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graciousgabby

Sakari...

Did you make that video, perform it and all?????

F*IN AWESOME!!!!!! :tu:

How very creative and very talented! Love it! :clap::nw::tsu:

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FlyingAngel

Scepticism (scep·ti·cism)

"A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind; dubiety."

From the dictionary. "Doubting" or "questioning" is not the same as "total disbelief". It simply means you ask questions and research before marking it as the opposing view.

Clearly it's not the case here. Most "skeptics" instead of having a "doubting" or "questioning" mind or accept the possibility of something new, they'd throw the exact opposite belief because [insert science and physic impossibilities here].

Ok let us use your logic.

Let us go back 3000 years ago; people had supernatural explanations for a lot of things. They had these explanations because they had no idea how things worked in the world. For example, thunder, people would have said thunder is Thor or Zeus showing their anger, however that is no longer the case. In fact it always goes one way –Things that have a supernatural explanation -----> become logically explained, usually by people using science. I have never seen it go in reverse - logically explained phenomena ----> turns back into the supernatural explanation.

Yes. And it works because we use the knowledge of the future to explain the fact of the past. If you were to live at their time, you'd explain the event wrong.

So using the same logic, if you use the knowledge of the present to explain facts in the present, there's a chance you could be wrong (that we don't know yet), and apply to paranormal stuffs is even wrong because we don't have enough knowledge till thousands years later. Till then, when we give an answer about the paranormal, there's a chance we could be wrong.

And no, you have no idea what the meaning of being open minded is if that is what you think. I would argue the one who isn’t open to the possibility ghosts and “para”normal phenomena doesn’t exist is the one being close minded.

Yes. The same apply to those think the contrary. If things just stay as "possibility", it's ok. But when one start to argue with [insert physic "impossibilities" here], that's the problem.

Also I would argue, you have no idea how quantum physics work, please refrain from trying to use that as an example.

I know a bit about quantum physic, not all. But I know how it works when someone use physic as the base of the truth and use it to argue with other people. The problem is what he used could be find out to be false later. Knowledge is the variable that change over time, which is not truthful when you want to find out the truth of something.

Your "bla bla bla" comment shows me that you're close-minded to any viewpoint contrary to what you want to believe. It's pretty popular to point out when science has been wrong in the past, but those misunderstandings were corrected by more science, so it's kind of a moot point. So, when will science take the claims of the paranormal seriously? Maybe when the claimants take science seriously.

I agree it was wrong and corrected over time. But it's still mean it's not truthful because it's corrected constantly. Especially when one uses it to fight against the paranormal ;)

As to the whole open vs. close minded argument...

It's just an attempt to throw a perceived insult back and forth in some twisted parody of "hot potato". The truth is we are all close minded about some things and open mnded about others. Arguing about who is more close minded isn't really helping anything. I am open minded about the existence of ghosts. I am close minded about the existence of unicorns. I make no apologies.

+1 to this post

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graciousgabby

I think it boils down to some people just needing scientific "proof" to substantiate a paranormal claim. I'm still largely on the fence about it. I'd WELCOME an experience but also realize that just my "telling" of the claim wouldn't be enough for a lot of people, which is where the frustration arises.

Those people who have had an experience shout it from the rooftops, only to be called "crazy", "fakers", "liars" and the like. Without some kind of "proof" to back their claim, it's yet another "theory". I could see how that could be maddening. Even people who are deemed as "reliable" and "honest"...would THERE claims be taken more seriously? A die-hard skeptic whose spouse tells them of a vivid, not easily debunked claim....would they believe it? (Assuming of course, that they LIKE their spouse and don't use the scenario as a way to send him/her off to the padded room? :P )

There are different levels of skeptics. Some wouldn't believe the scientific proof if it was presented..some would consider it and analyze it...and yet others would be more easily swayed into believing. The latter two I would classify as the skeptics who don't believe but WANT to. I'd be somewhere between the second and third example.

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Pauly Dangerously

I think it boils down to some people just needing scientific "proof" to substantiate a paranormal claim. I'm still largely on the fence about it. I'd WELCOME an experience but also realize that just my "telling" of the claim wouldn't be enough for a lot of people, which is where the frustration arises.

Those people who have had an experience shout it from the rooftops, only to be called "crazy", "fakers", "liars" and the like. Without some kind of "proof" to back their claim, it's yet another "theory". I could see how that could be maddening. Even people who are deemed as "reliable" and "honest"...would THERE claims be taken more seriously? A die-hard skeptic whose spouse tells them of a vivid, not easily debunked claim....would they believe it? (Assuming of course, that they LIKE their spouse and don't use the scenario as a way to send him/her off to the padded room? :P )

There are different levels of skeptics. Some wouldn't believe the scientific proof if it was presented..some would consider it and analyze it...and yet others would be more easily swayed into believing. The latter two I would classify as the skeptics who don't believe but WANT to. I'd be somewhere between the second and third example.

I get what you're saying, but under what circumstances would one be require dto believe something just because they were told. That seems to me to be a pretty naive way to live. Scientific inquiriy is the best way we as tool using humans have for understanding the world around us. All people should require some form of proof before deciding whether or not something is real. Not doing so is how children behave. And we are not children, are we?

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Wookietim

Can we first define exactly what we mean by "Ghost" or "Spirit"?

After all, if we mean some sort of record of past events that plays itself out in the present, then that is one thing... But if you are talking about life after death, well that's a completely different magnitude of discussion...

We can very definitely figure out a way to prove the former - I have no idea how to do it and I am certain it hasn't yet been done, but the former is a very definite physical thing. We can figure that one out.

If we are talking about the latter then we have all sorts of weird metaphysical things that can't really be proven in any conventional way...

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The Paranormal Skeptic

Paranormal skeptic mentioned thunder, and how people considered it Zeus' anger... Well what if those people had not tried to figure out what it was?? If they had just said "OH it's Zeus anger" or if someone had said.. It doesn't exist, you don't know anything about quantum physics don't talk to me. What then?? Is it not the same thing??

When did I ever suggest people shouldn't pay attention or figure out why people are having these experiences?

Do I believe in ghosts? No, but that doesn't mean I believe people are lying about their experiences. Logical explainations for most of these experiences can be provided, however most people who believe would rather have the ghost.

Edited by The Paranormal Skeptic

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graciousgabby
I get what you're saying, but under what circumstances would one be require dto believe something just because they were told

As far as "officially" (as in documented, in resource books, etc)...never! But there are so many things that people choose to believe (and present as fact) having never seen "proof". Not to start a religious discussion, but religion is a perfect example.

Scientific inquiriy is the best way we as tool using humans have for understanding the world around us. All people should require some form of proof before deciding whether or not something is real. Not doing so is how children behave. And we are not children, are we?

I agree 1000% with that statement, but unfortunately it's just not that cut and dry when it comes to this kind of stuff. IMO.

We can very definitely figure out a way to prove the former

How could we prove life after death? I mean, factually, scientifically prove it? And, I'm not being a smart-ass...it's a genuine question.

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The Paranormal Skeptic

How could we prove life after death? I mean, factually, scientifically prove it? And, I'm not being a smart-ass...it's a genuine question.

I honestly believe we would need to figure out if consciousness is a product of the brain or independent of the brain before anything else.

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Sakari

I do not believe any one of you on this thread , not one....You are all wrong , none of you are right....None of you have proof for anything , nothing at all....None of ya's....... :devil:

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Brian Topp

I do not believe any one of you on this thread , not one....You are all wrong , none of you are right....None of you have proof for anything , nothing at all....None of ya's....... :devil:

Ok I am going to debunk this paranormal comment.

If you read highlight words it has a hidden meaning...

I do not believe any one of you on this thread , not one....You are all wrong , none of you are right....None of you have proof for anything , nothing at all....None of ya's....... :devil:

Clearly this post is fake i can show with solid evidence since i have PHD in sleeping with my wife snoring.

pacman_piechart.jpg

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Sakari

Ok I am going to debunk this paranormal comment.

If you read highlight words it has a hidden meaning...

Clearly this post is fake i can show with solid evidence since i have PHD in sleeping with my wife snoring.

pacman_piechart.jpg

:tu:

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booNyzarC

Irrefutable. Impressive. And undeniable.

That is indeed the coolest pie chart ever created.

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JGirl

Ok I am going to debunk this paranormal comment.

If you read highlight words it has a hidden meaning...

Clearly this post is fake i can show with solid evidence since i have PHD in sleeping with my wife snoring.

pacman_piechart.jpg

lol!!

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