The Montauk Project...

[dekker87]

this is possibly one of the most outlandish and fantastical 'modern' cases out there...yet for some reason i believe there to be some truth within it....i don't know why....i'm not easily fooled, i've been studying this sort of thing for 30 years and my father was an entusiast for 30 years before that...i find very very few ufo reports credible and believe 99% of abduction cases to be untrue...

yet this case - perhaps the oddest of them all - strikes me as real...instinct is all i'm going on tbh...

anyone else have any thoughts on this?

My link

[Avant]

Good read! Thanks for that I'd not heard of it before, not sure how much I can believe but it is interesting

[dekker87]

no worries....theres some decent links here if you wanna investigate further...

My link

[TheSearcher]

First of all, I think Montauk is an abandoned air force base and nothing else. The entire article reads like bad science fiction, seriously. psychotronics (a word which incidently doesn't mean what it says in the article), particle beams, electromagnetic mind control, black-hole simulations and interdimensional/time travel experiments? Give me a break here.

I actually do you one better, it reads like an amalgam of quite a lot of different conspiracy theories, that's what it reads like.

A and for the record :

However by terms of the deed, the Federal government still retains all rights to any and all property beneath the surface!

Google "mineral rights on property" and you'll find that this is actually not exceptional at all. Most US states have an individual law about it. For example : Texas allows separate ownership of mineral and surface rights, a situation called a "severed estate." Mineral rights can be severed from surface rights at any time in a property's past. But this is also the case in federal law, most people aren't even aware that they don't own what under them.

[dekker87]

First of all, I think Montauk is an abandoned air force base and nothing else. The entire article reads like bad science fiction, seriously. psychotronics (a word which incidently doesn't mean what it says in the article), particle beams, electromagnetic mind control, black-hole simulations and interdimensional/time travel experiments? Give me a break here.

I actually do you one better, it reads like an amalgam of quite a lot of different conspiracy theories, that's what it reads like.

lol - i accept all you've said...but for some reason i just think there's something to this case...Jacques Vallee - the ufop researcher i respect above all others looked into this extensively and dismissed it as an offshoot of the Philidelphia experiment but i still instinctively believe something very unusual is goin on here...

First of all, I think Montauk is an abandoned air force base and nothing else. The entire article reads like bad science fiction, seriously. psychotronics (a word which incidently doesn't mean what it says in the article), particle beams, electromagnetic mind control, black-hole simulations and interdimensional/time travel experiments? Give me a break here.

I actually do you one better, it reads like an amalgam of quite a lot of different conspiracy theories, that's what it reads like.

lol - i accept all you've said...but for some reason i just think there's something to this case...Jacques Vallee - the ufop researcher i respect above all others looked into this extensively and dismissed it as an offshoot of the Philidelphia experiment but i still instinctively believe something very unusual is goin on here...

[Sylent Nyte]

this is possibly one of the most outlandish and fantastical 'modern' cases out there...yet for some reason i believe there to be some truth within it....i don't know why....i'm not easily fooled, i've been studying this sort of thing for 30 years and my father was an entusiast for 30 years before that...i find very very few ufo reports credible and believe 99% of abduction cases to be untrue...

yet this case - perhaps the oddest of them all - strikes me as real...instinct is all i'm going on tbh...

anyone else have any thoughts on this?

My link

Please come again when the complex rises from the ground and transforms into a giant robot. Thank you.

[SlimJim22]

It sure is one of the greater potential mysteries. Sure it is not certified but there is enough to warrant at least considering this place to be a hub of several conspiracies. I have not read any of the books written by Moon, Bielak and others but I would like to at some point.

Though there are many facets to the mysetry the part I find most fascinating is the Montauk Chair.

I've tried to find some decent links and this is what I got.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/montauk/esp_filadelfia_3.htm

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/montauk/esp_filadelfia_2.htm#menu

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Montauk_Project_Superman.html

It is more science fiction than science fact but who knows what the powers that be have really been doing for years around Camp Hero and elsewhere.

[ships-cat]

Hmmm... I'm afraid I found the article deeply disatisfying. It kept making allegations about esoteric research at the station that where never subsequently corroborated. It left you with the superficial impression that the station MUST be involved in such activities, but there was never any substantiation; when you read it carefully it is ALL allegations.

It also kept throwing in red herrings. The Searcher has already mentioned the one about mineral rights. (making the commonplace sound suspicious). But what about the bit about "parts of a state park being off-limits to the public" ? That is also commonplace, though the author hints (but never STATES) that it is suspicious and unusual.

My favourite is THIS little gem:

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers plans and records establish conclusive proof of the existence of at least four levels of subterranean facilities beneath Camp Hero, and according to informed sources up to three additional levels have been added as recently as the early 1990s. Montauk is actually geologically distinct from the rest of Long Island and is the top of an undersea mountain, so there is plenty of bedrock to go down into.

Again, uncorroborated allegations about "plans and records" that are never cited (the author never even claims to have seen them personally, nor explains where he got this information), and a throwaway comment about geography that darkly hints at additional subterranean levels. Here's a word to the wise... ALL islands are effectively "at the top of an undersea mountain". That is what an island IS.

No.. sorry... the article leaves me cold.

meow purr

[Paxus]

dekker87 - have you heard the guy talk who claims to have been a security guard at the facilty?

To aswer your OP question, yes, I find it fascinating, but only as a fiction.

Devil's avocado - But you just never know. I don't remember the name of the guy but he was a senior staffer of Lockheed, I think... anyway, he said whatever you can think of, in terms of technology, we can already do... You name it, just like what you see in sci fi, we can do it, but these amazing feats of technology will never be revealed to the public.

If that were true, why not an underground base where all these weird and wonderful things are tested?....

*LOL* Have fun with it

Edited March 28, 2011 by Paxus

[Keel M.]

If they're playing around with gigawatts, I can't help but wonder if this is where Dr. Emmett "Doc" Brown has been hanging out lately.

[BiffSplitkins]

Interesting read but I think it's just an abandoned radar base from back from the Top Gun/ Rocky IV era.

[Rafterman]

Not buying it. I work at a school or architecture in Upstate New York and several of our 5th year undergrad and grad students have done thesis projects focusing on Montauk. They've spent weeks going over the entire location, surveying, mapping, entering the buildings, etc.

There's nothing going on there.

[regeneratia]

this is possibly one of the most outlandish and fantastical 'modern' cases out there...yet for some reason i believe there to be some truth within it....i don't know why....i'm not easily fooled, i've been studying this sort of thing for 30 years and my father was an entusiast for 30 years before that...i find very very few ufo reports credible and believe 99% of abduction cases to be untrue...

yet this case - perhaps the oddest of them all - strikes me as real...instinct is all i'm going on tbh...

anyone else have any thoughts on this?

My link

I have read five Peter Moon and Preston Nichols books. I still sit on a fence regarding a lot of it. But there is some stuff in those books that does make you think.

So when I tell people about them, I say either it is a horrible truth or it is the best science fiction I have ever read.

Meanwhile, I store more bits of information on it or like it, as they arise. I don't have to make a decision on it. I will sit back and wait and watch.

A good podcast with Preston Nichols can be found if you search for Rob Simcox or Paranormal Cafe. I hope it is still available. I have it stored.

I am also very protective of my children.

Edited March 30, 2011 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

First of all, I think Montauk is an abandoned air force base and nothing else. The entire article reads like bad science fiction, seriously. psychotronics (a word which incidently doesn't mean what it says in the article), particle beams, electromagnetic mind control, black-hole simulations and interdimensional/time travel experiments? Give me a break here.

I actually do you one better, it reads like an amalgam of quite a lot of different conspiracy theories, that's what it reads like.

A and for the record :

Google "mineral rights on property" and you'll find that this is actually not exceptional at all. Most US states have an individual law about it. For example : Texas allows separate ownership of mineral and surface rights, a situation called a "severed estate." Mineral rights can be severed from surface rights at any time in a property's past. But this is also the case in federal law, most people aren't even aware that they don't own what under them.

It is said that the military is about 30-40 years ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to technology. Particle beams are certainly a possibility. We KNOW they are using electro or sound wave or microwave defense. Or all of them. In fact, I have a little cheap toy model of a military styled "Electronic Defense Unit" right here at my elbow. AND i met a man once who specialized in this particular aspect of warfare. It exists, in all sorts of forms! http://www.google.com/search?q=Electronic+defense+unit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a, http://www.knovel.com/web/portal/browse/display?_EXT_KNOVEL_DISPLAY_bookid=1290

It is said that is how they got Saddam or one of his doubles (He had 6 of them) to come out of the bunker he was hiding in, after the illegal invasion of Iraq.

What do you think Cern is?

To scoff it is to show some kind of lack of knowledge about it. OR to downplay or obfuscate what you know to be truth.

Our government, all our governments have a lot of answer for, alot of deeds that they should not be proud of, no matter how superior they think they are compared to us little people. In all my fifty years, it is the rule, not the exception, that the little people like me act is a more moral and upright manner.

There is no doubt whatsoever that our military would and could do what Preston Nichols relates to us. Look what they did in Abu Gharib and now with dead bodies in Afghanistan.

Iran-Contra, where the lives in complete villages of innocents were wiped out. Oh yeah, sometimes you have to be above the law, right? WRONG!

Ollie was wrong, wrong, wrong.

And those that gave small-pox laden blankets to the natives in North America. Yeah, this is the kind of behavior our country was founded on.

I demand better behavior from our military and our government!!

Edited March 30, 2011 by regeneratia

[Quiet Insanity]

That article gave a lot of theories about what's going on there and acted as if they were true with no sources listed or even any plausible reason why they should know any of this. It does make a good case for something going on in the last half of the article, but nothing necesserily evil as the first half would have you believe.

Even if something is happening there, so what? There are some projects that are so important or potentially dangerous that it's probably better they remain secret as long as possible. I hate government secrets as much as the next person, but unless what's happening there is a direct harm to the public then I can live without knowing.

[TheSearcher]

It is said that the military is about 30-40 years ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to technology. Particle beams are certainly a possibility. We KNOW they are using electro or sound wave or microwave defense. Or all of them. In fact, I have a little cheap toy model of a military styled "Electronic Defense Unit" right here at my elbow. AND i met a man once who specialized in this particular aspect of warfare. It exists, in all sorts of forms! http://www.google.com/search?q=Electronic+defense+unit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a, http://www.knovel.com/web/portal/browse/display?_EXT_KNOVEL_DISPLAY_bookid=1290

It is said that is how they got Saddam or one of his doubles (He had 6 of them) to come out of the bunker he was hiding in, after the illegal invasion of Iraq.

What do you think Cern is?

To scoff it is to show some kind of lack of knowledge about it. OR to downplay or obfuscate what you know to be truth.

Our government, all our governments have a lot of answer for, alot of deeds that they should not be proud of, no matter how superior they think they are compared to us little people. In all my fifty years, it is the rule, not the exception, that the little people like me act is a more moral and upright manner.

There is no doubt whatsoever that our military would and could do what Preston Nichols relates to us. Look what they did in Abu Gharib and now with dead bodies in Afghanistan.

Iran-Contra, where the lives in complete villages of innocents were wiped out. Oh yeah, sometimes you have to be above the law, right? WRONG!

Ollie was wrong, wrong, wrong.

And those that gave small-pox laden blankets to the natives in North America. Yeah, this is the kind of behavior our country was founded on.

I demand better behavior from our military and our government!!

Yes the military has the latest technology, that's a given, especially in weapons design. I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to some people, although it's more 20 years in advance, if that. And yes the military has been using things like electronics, sound waves or microwaves as weapons, they've been doing that since the second world war.

And the next gen weaponry is a lot further along than you imagine, I think.

For example, Boeing is developing an Advanced Tactical Laser (we're talking a 40,000-pound, megawatt-class, chemical laser here) carried in a transport plane, an idea they stole of a smaller application.

The navy is making quite big rail guns. See it here.

Some pricate corporations are already thinking further than that, they are developing actual combat robots. Remember the Roomba robot, the vacuum cleaner? Well the same company is developing combat robots, armed and all.

Space-Launched Kinetic Megabombs, is something the RAND corporation is working on for the Air Force. The explanation is best given in the article : "A pair of satellites orbiting several hundred miles above the Earth would serve as a weapons system. One functions as the targeting and communications platform while the other carries numerous tungsten rods—up to 20 feet in length and a foot in diameter—that it can drop on targets with less than 15 minutes’ notice" Source

Triton Systems, is trying to develop a Modular Disc-Wing Urban Cruise Munition for the Air Force. What are they? Frisbee shaped weaponized UAV's, either remote piloted or on autopilot More info here.

There's also the Active Denial System, this one even has a Wiki page

The Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response rifle, or PHASR (goes to prove that some scientists have humour). Also it's own Wiki page.

I don't know what you think CERN is, but I will assume you are actually talking about the Large Hadron Collider? If not, allow me to enlighten you as to what CERN is : The Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire (European Council for Nuclear Research), is an international organization whose purpose is to operate the world's largest particle physics laboratory, which is situated in the Northwest suburbs of Geneva on the Franco–Swiss border. Their main function is to provide the particle accelerators and other infrastructure needed for high-energy physics research. Numerous experiments have been constructed at CERN by international collaborations to make use of them. It is also the birthplace of the World Wide Web (you couldn't post on this forum without them).

So, no, not weapons development or testing. Purely nerds and high energy research.

I scoff this, because it's nothing else that some hair brained conspiracy theory. And trust me, I do have a good grip on technology, I'm fairly well informed about what is or is not being developed, or what is still in the theoretical stages. Why, you may ask, because I love technology, hell, I'd build my own spaceship if I had the finances, just to see if I could.

Do I believe that governments do reprehensible things? Of course, that goes without saying, and this is the only thing we do agree on. As soon as politics and profit become involved, it's just a matter of degree, but the fact remains, there will be some disgusting behaviour.

Do I believe that there is some nefarious testing going on ion some alleged secret place under an abandoned radar station? No of course not. There's no need to do so, since any military base or even industrial research center will do and usually has quite adequate security.

[dekker87]

Yes the military has the latest technology, that's a given, especially in weapons design. I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to some people, although it's more 20 years in advance, if that. And yes the military has been using things like electronics, sound waves or microwaves as weapons, they've been doing that since the second world war.

And the next gen weaponry is a lot further along than you imagine, I think.

For example, Boeing is developing an Advanced Tactical Laser (we're talking a 40,000-pound, megawatt-class, chemical laser here) carried in a transport plane, an idea they stole of a smaller application.

The navy is making quite big rail guns. See it here.

Some pricate corporations are already thinking further than that, they are developing actual combat robots. Remember the Roomba robot, the vacuum cleaner? Well the same company is developing combat robots, armed and all.

Space-Launched Kinetic Megabombs, is something the RAND corporation is working on for the Air Force. The explanation is best given in the article : "A pair of satellites orbiting several hundred miles above the Earth would serve as a weapons system. One functions as the targeting and communications platform while the other carries numerous tungsten rods—up to 20 feet in length and a foot in diameter—that it can drop on targets with less than 15 minutes’ notice" Source

Triton Systems, is trying to develop a Modular Disc-Wing Urban Cruise Munition for the Air Force. What are they? Frisbee shaped weaponized UAV's, either remote piloted or on autopilot More info here.

There's also the Active Denial System, this one even has a Wiki page

The Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response rifle, or PHASR (goes to prove that some scientists have humour). Also it's own Wiki page.

WOW!! Some seriously cool weaponry there....nice!

[TheSearcher]

WOW!! Some seriously cool weaponry there....nice!

And all out in the open too..... There's most likely a lot more, but as much as I am into technology, some papers are too damned tedious to read. There's even more if we talk purely infantry or groundtroops.

Take the XM1216 Small Unmanned Ground Vehicle, which is a small portable unmanned robot vehicle, that can either be remotely manned, or manipulated through use of a Microsoft Xbox 360 gamepad fitted with speciality drivers. Usable for recon in urban terrain, tunnels, sewers, and caves.

Now in the more "boomstick" range, here is the XM-25, one of the first smart shoulder-fired weapons. I'll let you read the article, it's quite amazing.

There also is the Brigade Combat Team network. This network is a layered system of interconnected computer softwares, radios, and sensors within the Brigade Combat Team. This in turn will eventually lead to the Future Force Warrior.

Yes some of the names given are very very corny..... I know.

I'll just link a few more.

Metal Storm (yes, not just a video game.)

The F-35 fighter plane

Long Range Acoustic Device

Starstreak missile

Pulsed energy projectiles

Plasma cannons

I mean the list goes on, and all of this is out there, for most people to read. Like I said some of it is very very tedious and if you're not into it, then don't try. With all this known, I don't see what else they could hide or would want to hide except the plans and the prototype.

[regeneratia]

WOW! Great post.

So everything about the Montauk issue is possible.

There is indeed a need for governments to hide underhanded activity. Secrecy in the USA has never been so abundant, so copious. There are things that our military and black ops people are doing that would cause massive riots in this country.

I personally think it is time to riot against all the secrecy and things hidden from us. Why? Because we pay for those. It is our right to know and see what is going on. It is our right to approve or disapprove of all of them.

Yes the military has the latest technology, that's a given, especially in weapons design. I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to some people, although it's more 20 years in advance, if that. And yes the military has been using things like electronics, sound waves or microwaves as weapons, they've been doing that since the second world war.

And the next gen weaponry is a lot further along than you imagine, I think.

For example, Boeing is developing an Advanced Tactical Laser (we're talking a 40,000-pound, megawatt-class, chemical laser here) carried in a transport plane, an idea they stole of a smaller application.

The navy is making quite big rail guns. See it here.

Some pricate corporations are already thinking further than that, they are developing actual combat robots. Remember the Roomba robot, the vacuum cleaner? Well the same company is developing combat robots, armed and all.

Space-Launched Kinetic Megabombs, is something the RAND corporation is working on for the Air Force. The explanation is best given in the article : "A pair of satellites orbiting several hundred miles above the Earth would serve as a weapons system. One functions as the targeting and communications platform while the other carries numerous tungsten rods—up to 20 feet in length and a foot in diameter—that it can drop on targets with less than 15 minutes’ notice" Source

Triton Systems, is trying to develop a Modular Disc-Wing Urban Cruise Munition for the Air Force. What are they? Frisbee shaped weaponized UAV's, either remote piloted or on autopilot More info here.

There's also the Active Denial System, this one even has a Wiki page

The Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response rifle, or PHASR (goes to prove that some scientists have humour). Also it's own Wiki page.

I don't know what you think CERN is, but I will assume you are actually talking about the Large Hadron Collider? If not, allow me to enlighten you as to what CERN is : The Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire (European Council for Nuclear Research), is an international organization whose purpose is to operate the world's largest particle physics laboratory, which is situated in the Northwest suburbs of Geneva on the Franco–Swiss border. Their main function is to provide the particle accelerators and other infrastructure needed for high-energy physics research. Numerous experiments have been constructed at CERN by international collaborations to make use of them. It is also the birthplace of the World Wide Web (you couldn't post on this forum without them).

So, no, not weapons development or testing. Purely nerds and high energy research.

I scoff this, because it's nothing else that some hair brained conspiracy theory. And trust me, I do have a good grip on technology, I'm fairly well informed about what is or is not being developed, or what is still in the theoretical stages. Why, you may ask, because I love technology, hell, I'd build my own spaceship if I had the finances, just to see if I could.

Do I believe that governments do reprehensible things? Of course, that goes without saying, and this is the only thing we do agree on. As soon as politics and profit become involved, it's just a matter of degree, but the fact remains, there will be some disgusting behaviour.

Do I believe that there is some nefarious testing going on ion some alleged secret place under an abandoned radar station? No of course not. There's no need to do so, since any military base or even industrial research center will do and usually has quite adequate security.

Edited April 2, 2011 by regeneratia

[SlimJim22]

You won't know about them until they have warrant to use them. Are you gonna give 'em the excuse?

How long until wars are fought by robots? Dunno but cool links Searcher... Plasma cannon? Seriously? Brilliant.

The most recurrent them of Montauk is the backwards engineering of the Montauk Chair and the opening up of dimensions. It is a good story and the montauk monsters have done a lot to give credence to it. Either it is a very good hoax with maybe a hint of truth or Montauk is host to a lot of creepy a$$ $#!£.

http://www.alienshift.com/id33.html

[TheSearcher]

WOW! Great post.

So everything about the Montauk issue is possible.

There is indeed a need for governments to hide underhanded activity. Secrecy in the USA has never been so abundant, so copious. There are things that our military and black ops people are doing that would cause massive riots in this country.

I personally think it is time to riot against all the secrecy and things hidden from us. Why? Because we pay for those. It is our right to know and see what is going on. It is our right to approve or disapprove of all of them.

The US signed their right to know away, the moment that Patriot Act I and II were passed and the moment certain other acts relating to terrorism were passed. It basically gives the military and secret service the right to do as they please, as long as they play the terrorist card. Sad but true. You pay for them? Doesn't matter, mention the words terror or national security and it stops right there.

@ Slim, I just wanted to show that science is a lot further than we assume. Specially in weapons design as there is a great market for it, loads of profit to be made. Sad but true.

[regeneratia]

The US signed their right to know away, the moment that Patriot Act I and II were passed and the moment certain other acts relating to terrorism were passed. It basically gives the military and secret service the right to do as they please, as long as they play the terrorist card. Sad but true. You pay for them? Doesn't matter, mention the words terror or national security and it stops right there.

@ Slim, I just wanted to show that science is a lot further than we assume. Specially in weapons design as there is a great market for it, loads of profit to be made. Sad but true.

The Patriot Act is a high crime against this country and the US Constitution. AND all who voted on it and didn't read it should be imprisoned.

What I don't understand is why the people in the military did not protect us against this act. They vow to protect the US Constitution. Why didn't they act against this legislation?

Edited April 5, 2011 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

The US signed their right to know away, the moment that Patriot Act I and II were passed and the moment certain other acts relating to terrorism were passed. It basically gives the military and secret service the right to do as they please, as long as they play the terrorist card. Sad but true. You pay for them? Doesn't matter, mention the words terror or national security and it stops right there.

@ Slim, I just wanted to show that science is a lot further than we assume. Specially in weapons design as there is a great market for it, loads of profit to be made. Sad but true.

Terrorism has been around since man started warring. Nothing is different prior to 9-11 than it was before. The media just tells you that it is.

[TheSearcher]

The Patriot Act is a high crime against this country and the US Constitution. AND all who voted on it and didn't read it should be imprisoned.

What I don't understand is why the people in the military did not protect us against this act. They vow to protect the US Constitution. Why didn't they act against this legislation?

Mate, the way this act was passed and the sheer size of it made it impossible to a be read in time and be be read altogether. That's how it was explained over here that is, I of course do not know the truth of the matter.

Once it was passed, what could the military do? Start another civil war? Since' it's based on interpretation if it is or not anti-constitutional, it could have divided the military as well. Not something you would want to happen.

Terrorism has been around since man started warring. Nothing is different prior to 9-11 than it was before. The media just tells you that it is.

That's very true.

[Matt121]

nope it's a dead animal. National Geographic Wild has a series called Wild Case Files they talked about this and it is a severely bloated racoon that had lost it's fur and the skin around it's nose giving it a freakish appearance. What is supposedly a tag is just a left over patch of fur