Still Waters Posted March 29, 2011 #1 Share Posted March 29, 2011 They could be the earliest Christian writing in existence, surviving almost 2,000 years in a Jordanian cave. They could, just possibly, change our understanding of how Jesus was crucified and resurrected, and how Christianity was born.A group of 70 or so "books", each with between five and 15 lead leaves bound by lead rings, was apparently discovered in a remote arid valley in northern Jordan somewhere between 2005 and 2007. A flash flood had exposed two niches inside the cave, one of them marked with a menorah or candlestick, the ancient Jewish religious symbol. A Jordanian Bedouin opened these plugs, and what he found inside might constitute extremely rare relics of early Christianity. That is certainly the view of the Jordanian government, which claims they were smuggled into Israel by another Bedouin. The Israeli Bedouin who currently holds the books has denied smuggling them out of Jordan, and claims they have been in his family for 100 years. Read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 29, 2011 #2 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Wow. Had not heard about these books before. From the OP Link: "Maybe it will lead to further interpretation and authenticity checks of the material, but the initial information is very encouraging, and it seems that we are looking at a very important and significant discovery, maybe the most important discovery in the history of archaeology." Cool!! Maybe this will add to what we know about the life of Jesus. There will be many interesting discussions when they are de-coded and have translations posted online, I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted March 29, 2011 #3 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'm hoping they're akin to the epistles, but written by others like Saint Peter or Saint Stephen, giving us another insight into the workings of the early (pre-70AD schism) Christian movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xYlvax Posted March 29, 2011 #4 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Can't wait to see more about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted March 30, 2011 #5 Share Posted March 30, 2011 If it does turn out these are an unknown Gospel, do you think the Christian Church... Catholic, Orthodox and Prodestant, will add another Book to the Bible? Maybe it could be called the Book of Lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefinger Posted March 30, 2011 #6 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I look forward to seeing what will come of this. I wonder if it will quote other New Testament sources...which may very likely change the dating of New Testament Scripture and maybe cause scholars and skeptics to take another look at history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted March 30, 2011 #7 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) It will, indeed, be interesting to see what the contents are, if they turn out to be genuine. It would seem that some of the experts who have examined them so far think otherwise, including the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA): The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), however, has dismissed the idea that the books are of any value. Experts who examined some of them, it said, "absolutely doubted their authenticity". According to the IAA, the books are a "mixture of incompatible periods and styles...without any connection or logic. Such forged motifs can be found in their thousands in the antiquities markets of Jordan and elsewhere in the Middle East." Source: The Jewish Chronicle Online Edited March 30, 2011 by Tiggs Included quote from the IAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie333 Posted March 30, 2011 #8 Share Posted March 30, 2011 WoW is all I can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star of the Sea Posted March 30, 2011 #9 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Very exciting - hopefully it will reveal more about early Christianity! Oh Tiggs just read your post Edited March 30, 2011 by Star of the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted March 30, 2011 #10 Share Posted March 30, 2011 It will, indeed, be interesting to see what the contents are, if they turn out to be genuine. It would seem that some of the experts who have examined them so far think otherwise, including the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA): Source: The Jewish Chronicle Online ""absolutely doubted their authenticity". According to the IAA, the books are a "mixture of incompatible periods and styles...without any connection or logic." They must have been written "made" in Babylonia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamsSon Posted March 31, 2011 #11 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think one interesting thing would be to find out just how much all this lead was worth, especially around the area of Jerusalem around that time, and how much the smelting process would have cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primordiak Posted March 31, 2011 #12 Share Posted March 31, 2011 yeah but some places will always say they "doubt the authenticity" of things because they didnt find it first. But reports are dating it back 2000 years ago at least and many dont think its forged because of the way it has decomposed. http://m.yahoo.com/w/ynews/article/topstories/13?url=http%3A%2F%2Fxml.news.yahoo.com%2Fus%2Fnews%2Frss%2Frichstoryrss.html%3Fu%3D%2Fyblog_thelookout%2F20110330%2Fts_yblog_thelookout%2Fcould-lead-codices-prove-the-major-discovery-of-christian-history&.ts=1301512290&.intl=US&.lang=en&.tsrc=yahoo&ref_w=frontdoors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefinger Posted March 31, 2011 #13 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) yeah but some places will always say they "doubt the authenticity" of things because they didnt find it first. But reports are dating it back 2000 years ago at least and many dont think its forged because of the way it has decomposed. http://m.yahoo.com/w...ef_w=frontdoors I agree. It seems a little early to deny it's authenticity, especially since the entire piece hasn't been thoroughly examined. Just as predictable that Christians would jump on this in a heartbeat, so would Jews jump against it in a heartbeat. Bipartisanship....gotta love it. Edited March 31, 2011 by Bluefinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted March 31, 2011 #14 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Am hoping these are genuine. A remarkable find, if they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted April 3, 2011 #15 Share Posted April 3, 2011 There's new pics here ....including a possible Jesus representation... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1372741/Hidden-cave-2-000-years--portrait-Jesus.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky7 Posted April 4, 2011 #16 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I hope that more information is forthcoming. This will be an incredible find if it can be verified authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcos anthony toledo Posted April 4, 2011 #17 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Ididn't know that at that early date there were using what we know as a modern book or codex to write on I always assume they wrote on scrolls and the modern book came towards the end of the roman empire and early medviel period whata wonderful find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spartan Posted April 4, 2011 #18 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just google up the "Jordan Lead Codices"!! On 3 March 2011 the Jewish Chronicle ran an article interviewing a metallurgist named Robert Feather, whom it stated was trying to authenticate a collection of 20 metal books which, it said, could be linked to Kabbala and were in the possession of an Israeli Bedouin farmer named Hassan Saeda, who claimed that they had been found by his great-grandfather in a cave a century ago. It added that a piece of leather from the find had already been carbon dated to 2,000 years ago.[3] On 22 March 2011 David Elkington issued a press release stating that a hoard of ancient books made of lead and copper, together with other artifacts, probably dating from the 1st century AD, had been found in Jordan, and that they might predate the writings of St. Paul and that "leading academics" believed they might be as important as the Dead Sea Scrolls.[4] Elkington also stated that the items were discovered 5 years ago in a cave by a Jordanian Bedouin and smuggled into Israel, where they were at risk of sale on the black market or destruction.[4] and here is a critical piece on the codices at Ancient metal plates found in Middle East won't pass 'the smell test'? The plates may be old, as maybe..50 years old and deliberately aged... On 1 April 2011, it was claimed that the previous year David Elkington wrote a letter to Oxford academic Peter Thonemann, sending images of a "copper tablet" and asking for information on Greek text on it. Thonemann replied with details that the item was a modern fake, made in the last 50 years in Jordan and copying an item from the Jordan museum, saying "This particular bronze tablet is, therefore, a modern forgery, produced in Jordan within the last fifty years. I would stake my career on it."[17] Professor Jim Davila also published Elkington's letter and Thonemann's reply.[18] and here is the full transcipts of the communciation between them, which Mr. Elkington wouldnt like to be put in front of the public, but which Thonemann did!! Good Deed, Mr. Thonemann And the Israel Antiquities Authority has outright stated that its a fake. The Jewish Chronicle report said that the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) "absolutely doubted their authenticity," saying the books are a "mixture of incompatible periods and styles without any connection or logic. Such forged motifs can be found in their thousands in the antiquities markets of Jordan and elsewhere in the Middle East". It added that Professor André Lemaire, an epigraphist and director of studies at the École pratique des hautes études, said the inscriptions he has seen make no sense and that it was "a question apparently of sophisticated fakes".[16] All Quotes from wikipeda, except as indicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted April 4, 2011 #19 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It will end up being like the shroud, those who absolutely believe in it because it serves their faith and those who are searching for the truth and admit they are a fraud. We called the believer of the shroud "shroudies" how will the believers of the lead scrolls be called??? Scrollies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMcGuffin Posted April 4, 2011 #20 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I sounds like they finally found some more records about the original Jewish-Christians, who were not part of the Pauline faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:PsYKoTiC:BeHAvIoR: Posted April 4, 2011 #21 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It will end up being like the shroud, those who absolutely believe in it because it serves their faith and those who are searching for the truth and admit they are a fraud. We called the believer of the shroud "shroudies" how will the believers of the lead scrolls be called??? Scrollies? Sadly, you're right on the first part. I LOL'ed at scrollies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted April 4, 2011 #22 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Sadly, you're right on the first part. I LOL'ed at scrollies. I've always thought that "the scrolls" sounds like some kind of ailment, e.g. "I've got the scrolls, need to go see doctor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbo Posted April 4, 2011 #23 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Obviously fake.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venonat Posted April 4, 2011 #24 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I wouldn't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritcherd Posted April 4, 2011 #25 Share Posted April 4, 2011 can never be too careful about these things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now