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Metal 'books' may hold early Christianity


Still Waters

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Yeah, this sounds very suspicious to me.

Religious forgery can be very good, so I will not trust this find until authenticated by serious, un-biased scientists.

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It will end up being like the shroud, those who absolutely believe in it because it serves their faith and those who are searching for the truth and admit they are a fraud. We called the believer of the shroud "shroudies" how will the believers of the lead scrolls be called??? Scrollies? :innocent::devil:

I love how biased you are... "who are searching for the truth and admit the fraud". So everyone who doesn't believe in it - is right... even though it is still under debate (for the shroud and the metal books). Well, I know for sure which side you will be on, whether or not this confirms religious beliefs or some other belief. Way to think scientifically and be unbiased. </sarcasm> Also, look up what scrolls mean before you throw the word around, because those things clearly are not scrolls.

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Obviously fake..

And how is this obvious... do tell. I mean those guys who actually have degrees haven't proven it to be fake yet, so you must be greater than them for sure.

Edited by Blue Lizard
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There's new pics here ....including a possible Jesus representation...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1372741/Hidden-cave-2-000-years--portrait-Jesus.html

From the article you posted:

"Many of the books are sealed on all sides with metal rings, suggesting they were not intended to be opened... They were clearly designed to exist for ever and never to be opened."

What do you guys think about that? Seems a bit weird...

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Maybe there's something in them they don't want the world to know.

Or maybe it's reverse psychology and they actually want you to know what it is in it. Seems a bit fishy that someone would go through the trouble of making this and no one was supposed to read this. If it is purely a religious thing, then that makes sense but otherwise, I feel like someone was meant to open it at some point.

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take it on pawn stars! they were probably written when the old man was younger. maybe they'll bring in someone whos an expert on lost religious books

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I love how biased you are... "who are searching for the truth and admit the fraud". So everyone who doesn't believe in it - is right... even though it is still under debate (for the shroud and the metal books). Well, I know for sure which side you will be on, whether or not this confirms religious beliefs or some other belief. Way to think scientifically and be unbiased. </sarcasm> Also, look up what scrolls mean before you throw the word around, because those things clearly are not scrolls.

First of all I didn't make up the word scroll it's in the title. Technically a scroll is usually mad of papyri or skin, some organic matter here the book looks like a book with 3 rings to bind it.

Second you're the only one who noticed my sarcasm when I wrote "searching for the truth and admit the fraud".

The schroud is admittedly a fraud, the carbon dating shows the fabric was made between the 12 and 14 th century. The pollen found on it may have come from Palestine but you have to remember people travel to those region frequently and brought back the famous pollen which was used to create doubt on the carbon dating.

Third, you believe what you want. it's your prerogative.

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The following is the mail from David Elkington to Dr. Thonemann

On 15 September 2010, I received the following email out of the blue from a certain David Elkington (whose name you will find in all these various news reports) – I’ve edited out only those bits which would reveal the mutual acquaintance:

“Dear Dr. Thonemann,

In relation to a discovery that I have been investigating in the Middle East I was given your email address by a friend […]. I am a biblical historian and specialist in the field of Christian and Hebrew origins. I'm working with Prof. Philip Davies of Sheffield University and Dr. Margaret Barker on a discovery that I made a few years back of a cache of ancient metal codices. They are comprised of lead and of copper - it is one of the copper codices that brings me to you. We think that it has a possible origin in Alexandria at the beginning of the 1st millennium AD - (the Bedouin who brought them to me said that his father found them in northern Egypt). It has an inscription in Greek along the top. A putative investigation has failed to find the meaning, dialect or type of Greek used and we are seeking to find an expert who might help in determining what it says.

Would you have the time and the knowledge to be able to help?

If you can I would be terribly grateful - I could email you a photograph of the codex as soon as you would like, however I would very much like to discuss it in person if at all possible […].

I look forward to your reply

Best Wishes

David Elkington”

And below is the reply from Dr. Thonemann

After having a close look at the photos, I replied later that same day:

“Dear David,

A surprisingly easy task, as it turns out!

The Greek text at the top of your photo no. 0556 reads: ΛΛΥΠΕΧΛΙΡΕΛΒΓΛΡΟΚΛΙΕΙΣΙΩΝ, followed by ΛΛΥΠΕ in mirror-writing.

This text corresponds to ΛΛΥΠΕ ΧΛΙΡΕ ΛΒΓΛΡ Ο ΚΛΙ ΕΙΣΙΩΝ, i.e. ἄλυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγαρ ὁ καὶ Εἰσίων, followed by the word ἄλυπε again, in mirror writing. The text at the bottom of your photo no. 0532 is the first part of the same text again: ΛΥΠΕΧΛΙΡΕΛΒΓ, i.e. [ἄ]λυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγ...

The text was incised by someone who did not know the Greek language, since he does not distinguish between the letters lambda and alpha: both are simply represented, in each of the texts, by the shape Λ.

The text literally means 'without grief, farewell! Abgar also known as Eision'. This text, in isolation, is meaningless.

However, this text corresponds precisely to line 2 of the Greek text of a bilingual Aramaic/Greek inscription published by J.T. Milik, Syria 35 (1958) 243-6 no.6 (SEG 20, 494), and republished in P.-L. Gatier, Inscriptions grecques et latines de Syrie XXI: Inscriptions de la Jordanie, 2: Region centrale (Paris 1986), no.118. That inscription reads, in its entirety, as follows,

1 Σελαμαν χρηστὲ καὶ

2 ἄλυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγαρ ὁ καὶ Εἰσίων

3 Μονοαθου υἱὸς υἱῷ τειμίῳ τὸ μνῆμα

4 ἐποίησεν ἔτους τρίτου ἐπαρχείας

’For Selaman, excellent and harmless man, farewell! Abgar, also known as Eision, son of Monoathos, constructed this tomb for his excellent son (i.e. Selaman), in the third year of the province'.

This is a stone tombstone from Madaba in Jordan, precisely dated to AD 108/9, on display in the Archaeological Museum in Amman.

The text on your bronze tablet, therefore, makes no sense in its own right, but has been extracted unintelligently from another longer text (as if it were inscribed with the words: 't to be that is the question wheth'). The longer text from which it derives is a perfectly ordinary tombstone from Madaba in Jordan which happens to have been on display in the Amman museum for the past fifty years or so. The text on your bronze tablet is repeated, in part, in three different places, meaningless in each case.

The only possible explanation is that the text on the bronze tablet was copied directly from the inscription in the museum at Amman by someone who did not understand the meaning of the text of the inscription, but was simply looking for a plausible-looking sequence of Greek letters to copy. He copied that sequence three times, in each case mixing up the letters alpha and lambda.

This particular bronze tablet is, therefore, a modern forgery, produced in Jordan within the last fifty years. I would stake my career on it.

All good wishes,

Peter Thonemann”

Both Quotes Linked from PaleoJudaica.com

And people are still going OMG ...a real relic with links to Jesus....while the thing is damn hoax!!

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The information that these books may contain is increadible.

Also, why is it that the books were found in Jordan caves but now in Isreal. I read reports the books were smuggled over the border, but the credibilty seems slim. Were the books purchased? How did they get into Isreal? Would really like to more about this mystery.

Cheers,

Aj

Ps: could someone tell me about metal books? I've never heard of a "metal" book.

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The information that these books may contain is increadible.

Also, why is it that the books were found in Jordan caves but now in Isreal. I read reports the books were smuggled over the border, but the credibilty seems slim. Were the books purchased? How did they get into Isreal? Would really like to more about this mystery.

Cheers,

Aj

Ps: could someone tell me about metal books? I've never heard of a "metal" book.

Just message me if you really want to know the details. I can give you the short version of it, but the detailed story can be found in the linked article(s).

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The following is the mail from David Elkington to Dr. Thonemann

And below is the reply from Dr. Thonemann

Both Quotes Linked from PaleoJudaica.com

And people are still going OMG ...a real relic with links to Jesus....while the thing is damn hoax!!

Great post... I still want to see if this is confirmed by other professionals too. But, yeah I think this might be the truth unfortunately.

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The following is the mail from David Elkington to Dr. Thonemann

And below is the reply from Dr. Thonemann

Both Quotes Linked from PaleoJudaica.com

And people are still going OMG ...a real relic with links to Jesus....while the thing is damn hoax!!

Thank you Spartan, suspected as much, can't recall a point in space and time where I had ever heard of texts from that ancient period being inscribed on metal anything in any great length at all ...

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How come the 'Bronzebook of Britian' has never been made public? That is interesting that they come out with that now. Written by the close followers of Jesus? The Vatican is controlling the things you know about Jesus Christ.

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http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/early-christian-lead-codices-proven-fakes-1566/

Awful, isn't it?

Such a shame someone is always looking for fame or money from something that is supposed to be about faith.

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