Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #76 Share Posted April 8, 2011 In what way do you perceive that I want to hand power to rich people? By removing controls on the exercise of their wealth as power. By shrinking the Government. If you cannot see that that is the inevitable consequence of your small government nonsense I cannot think what you imagine your ideas could actually achieve. Some sort of plan of action would be nice at this stage. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #77 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Seriously??? Thats what you saw in my post??? I mean really, you honestly think a high school drop out who has never done anything with thier life should be granted the same as someone who's busted thier ass in school and learned a better way to be productive in society?? And you guys acuse me of wanting a utopian society??? So, let's see - you yet again make a decision about who "Busted their ass" based on their job and monetary income. In other words, money = how "good" and how "deserving" a person is for society's compassion. For conservatives, money is a sort of fundamentalist religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #78 Share Posted April 8, 2011 You are arguing in favor of cutting services (Things that the middle class and poor use and the rich do not need) in order to cut taxes (A move that will only benefit the rich, especially after those services are cut to support the loss of tax revenue). Your worldview benefits to rich and punishes the poor. The only service we have specificaly discussed (aside from bargaining power for unions, which I nor several million other people in this country dont benefit, poor or not) is abortion. That isnt punnishment. Thats believeing in the most basic of human rights, the right to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #79 Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) So, let's see - you yet again make a decision about who "Busted their ass" based on their job and monetary income. In other words, money = how "good" and how "deserving" a person is for society's compassion. For conservatives, money is a sort of fundamentalist religion. I think that sort of thinking leads to the position where people who clean the ****ty asses of the elderly deserve minimum wage. How about those who clean our sewers and save us from infections - no skill there - minimum wage. Some things deserve respect for what they are - keeping the cogs of society turning. Br Cornelius Edited April 8, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #80 Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) dp Edited April 8, 2011 by preacherman76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #81 Share Posted April 8, 2011 The only service we have specificaly discussed (aside from bargaining power for unions, which I nor several million other people in this country dont benefit, poor or not) is abortion. That isnt punnishment. Thats believeing in the most basic of human rights, the right to live. No, we have not discussed only abortion. We have discussed "Planned Parenthood" - an organization that does much more than just abort fetuses - as I pointed out quite a few posts ago. And the rich do not avail themselves of the organization called "Planned Parenthood" - they have the money to handle things themselves. It is the middle class and poor that need that organization. So even with that, you are arguing for cutting taxes so that the rich have extra perks and the middle class and poor lose an organization that benefits them. In short : Hand perks to the rich and punish everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #82 Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) So, let's see - you yet again make a decision about who "Busted their ass" based on their job and monetary income. In other words, money = how "good" and how "deserving" a person is for society's compassion. For conservatives, money is a sort of fundamentalist religion. So you think a person at walmart should make the same as say, a doctor?? Lets try to keep this conversation based on reality ok? In your world, no one would have incentive to be anything but a walmart worker. Then where would we be? Edited April 8, 2011 by preacherman76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #83 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I think that sort of thinking leads to the position where people who clean the ****ty asses of the elderly deserve minimum wage. How about those who clean our sewers and save us from infections - no skill there - minimum wage. Some things deserve respect for what they are - keeping the cogs of society turning. Br Cornelius My wife workers for hospice. She manages folks who wipe peoples asses. They make more then minimum wage. Though Id say they should make more. But thats the thing, if you are unhappy with your lot, change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #84 Share Posted April 8, 2011 So you think a person at walmart should make the same as say, a doctor?? Lets try to keep this conversation based on reality ok? In your world, no one would have incentive to be anything but a walmart worker. Then where would we be? This is not about wages. This is about services. Yes, I do think a person that works at wal-mart ought to have the same right to collectively bargain as a doctor. Yes, I do think that a person that works at wal-mart ought to have the same access to family planning that a doctor has. Why is it that you think that income ought to define access to those things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #85 Share Posted April 8, 2011 My wife workers for hospice. She manages folks who wipe peoples asses. They make more then minimum wage. Though Id say they should make more. But thats the thing, if you are unhappy with your lot, change it. Not everyone is supplied with the faculties to do everything - they still deserve a reasonable life and the support of society. Your ideas would remove that from them.Many at the moment do not even have access to health care and adequate food. In an unequal world sometime the scales need rebalancing. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #86 Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) No, we have not discussed only abortion. We have discussed "Planned Parenthood" - an organization that does much more than just abort fetuses - as I pointed out quite a few posts ago. No one has a problem with medical services they provide for women who are going to have children. The roblem comes in when my tax dollar goes to provide for the death of the inocent. Im looking into voluntering with a christian version of PP, that does all but provide abortions. They recieve no federal or state funding. They litteraly run on donations and volunter workers, including mid wifes nurses and doctors. If PP wants to kill children, they should do it with thier own money. And the rich do not avail themselves of the organization called "Planned Parenthood" - they have the money to handle things themselves. It is the middle class and poor that need that organization. So even with that, you are arguing for cutting taxes so that the rich have extra perks and the middle class and poor lose an organization that benefits them. In short : Hand perks to the rich and punish everyone else. The rich created PP as a eugenics program. A women who gets pregnate in this day and age without intent is only punnishing herself. Edited April 8, 2011 by preacherman76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #87 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Not everyone is supplied with the faculties to do everything - they still deserve a reasonable life and the support of society. Your ideas would remove that from them.Many at the moment do not even have access to health care and adequate food. In an unequal world sometime the scales need rebalancing. Br Cornelius Ahhh - but what preacherman is saying here is that a person that doesn't make lots of money doesn't deserve any support from society because they are not worthy of it... Conservatives see things like "The Free Market" as essentially God - something that bestows worthiness on people... and if you have not been touched by the divine hand of the market and are not making lots of money, then you are not worthy of societies perks... That is the conservative mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #88 Share Posted April 8, 2011 No one has a problem with medical services they provide for women who are going to have children. The roblem comes in when my tax dollar goes to provide for the death of the inocent. Im looking into voluntering with a christian version of PP, that does all but provide abortions. They recieve no federal or state funding. They litteraly run on donations and volunter workers, including mid wifes nurses and doctors. If PP wants to kill children, they should do it with thier own money. Ahhh - so now this is all about you deciding that your definition of abortion ("Death of the innocent") is the only one allowed... Abortion is legal. Take away planned parenthood and you thrust people who want to get an abortion into a situation that is less than realistically safe. But I guess that safe abortions are only allowed fo the rich now in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #89 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Not everyone is supplied with the faculties to do everything - they still deserve a reasonable life and the support of society. Your ideas would remove that from them.Many at the moment do not even have access to health care and adequate food. In an unequal world sometime the scales need rebalancing. Br Cornelius What idea have I expressed would "remove that from them"? What are you talking about? I totaly agree that the scale needs rebalancing. And stopping the fed and state governments from stealing on avergae 40% of a persons pay through a wide range of taxes would be a great start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #90 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Ahhh - but what preacherman is saying here is that a person that doesn't make lots of money doesn't deserve any support from society because they are not worthy of it... Conservatives see things like "The Free Market" as essentially God - something that bestows worthiness on people... and if you have not been touched by the divine hand of the market and are not making lots of money, then you are not worthy of societies perks... That is the conservative mindset. Calvanist infection. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #91 Share Posted April 8, 2011 What idea have I expressed would "remove that from them"? What are you talking about? I totaly agree that the scale needs rebalancing. And stopping the fed and state governments from stealing on avergae 40% of a persons pay through a wide range of taxes would be a great start. When you decided that you disagree with abortion and therefore want to close down planned parenthood because of it. That is when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #92 Share Posted April 8, 2011 What idea have I expressed would "remove that from them"? What are you talking about? I totaly agree that the scale needs rebalancing. And stopping the fed and state governments from stealing on avergae 40% of a persons pay through a wide range of taxes would be a great start. Your ideas are small Government, low taxes - the agenda of the rich lobbyists. You may think you are campaigning for the little man - but your words belie that. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #93 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Ahhh - so now this is all about you deciding that your definition of abortion ("Death of the innocent") is the only one allowed... Abortion is legal. Take away planned parenthood and you thrust people who want to get an abortion into a situation that is less than realistically safe. But I guess that safe abortions are only allowed fo the rich now in your eyes? Im not stopping anyone from getting a abortion. However, the federal government doesnt have the authority cause of constitutional restraints, to make me pay for it. Especialy when there is a strong moral objection. And that doesnt even have to come from religious beliefs, but from the beliefs in the declaration of independance. Which of course declares that every person in this country has the right to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #94 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Im not stopping anyone from getting a abortion. However, the federal government doesnt have the authority cause of constitutional restraints, to make me pay for it. Especialy when there is a strong moral objection. And that doesnt even have to come from religious beliefs, but from the beliefs in the declaration of independance. Which of course declares that every person in this country has the right to life. And the law states you have a right to an abortion - and it is making that possible. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #95 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Im not stopping anyone from getting a abortion. However, the federal government doesnt have the authority cause of constitutional restraints, to make me pay for it. Especialy when there is a strong moral objection. And that doesnt even have to come from religious beliefs, but from the beliefs in the declaration of independance. Which of course declares that every person in this country has the right to life. Actually, you are simply denying safe and affordable abortions to the middle class and poor - and are arguing that the rich ought to have more money to get the abortions they already get. In other words : Give the rich more perks, punish the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #96 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Your ideas are small Government, low taxes - the agenda of the rich lobbyists. You may think you are campaigning for the little man - but your words belie that. Br Cornelius Rich lobbiest dont want small government. They want large powerful government that inturn gives them power to do what they wish. Growing government is what has given the rich power to be in the position they are in. Over stepping the constitution through puppet officails is the riches greatest accomplishment. Think about it BR. These problems didnt exist to the extent they are till government began to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #97 Share Posted April 8, 2011 And the law states you have a right to an abortion - and it is making that possible. Br Cornelius There is no law that says you have a right to make tax payers pay for your abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted April 8, 2011 #98 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Actually, you are simply denying safe and affordable abortions to the middle class and poor - and are arguing that the rich ought to have more money to get the abortions they already get. In other words : Give the rich more perks, punish the poor. Safe for who? Certainly not the little innocent baby. Lets remove the enormous costs to adopt children, then everyone can be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted April 8, 2011 #99 Share Posted April 8, 2011 There is no law that says you have a right to make tax payers pay for your abortion. So, apparently, family management and the ability to decide not to have children is legal but only the rich are allowed to exercise that decision. Yet again : The rich are deemed "Worthy" based on their income and the poor are deemed "Not worthy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2011 #100 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Rich lobbiest dont want small government. They want large powerful government that inturn gives them power to do what they wish. Growing government is what has given the rich power to be in the position they are in. Over stepping the constitution through puppet officails is the riches greatest accomplishment. Think about it BR. These problems didnt exist to the extent they are till government began to grow. And diminishing the Government will solve this how ?? I've asked this twice now. How will destroying the only institution with enough power to control the rich interests solve the problem ? I asked for your solutions - not your dreams. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now