Keel M. Posted April 13, 2011 #1 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Did Moses really lead the Israelites out of Egypt and were there really ten plagues ? This question has puzzled biblical scholars, archeologists and all those interested in solving one of the Old Testament's most intriguing mysteries. Was the story of the Israelites fleeing Egypt after years of slavery history or myth? Read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d e v i c e Posted April 13, 2011 #2 Share Posted April 13, 2011 No disrespect to anyones religeous faith but you'd think if an entire race of people were walking around in the dessert for years and years, they'd leave some sort of physical traces behind for modern archeologists to one day discover and study. But there's nothing - so far. So....hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d e v i c e Posted April 13, 2011 #3 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Yes, its informed opinion - it's also a fact. The aliens have nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ships-cat Posted April 13, 2011 #4 Share Posted April 13, 2011 If the tribe was nomadic, then....no...you wouldn't expect them to leave any traces for archaeologists to find. meow purr:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d e v i c e Posted April 13, 2011 #5 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Yea, I dunno about that. Archeologists have found evidence of other nomadic peoples on more than one occasion - Native Americans, various nomadic tribes of the middle east, The Mongols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Bismarck Posted April 13, 2011 #6 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Yea, I dunno about that. Archeologists have found evidence of other nomadic peoples on more than one occasion - Native Americans, various nomadic tribes of the middle east, The Mongols. All the mention nomadic tribes wasn't chased by any other civilisation, there wanted to slaughter them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 13, 2011 #7 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) Yes. But, ironically, that is not the important thing about exodus. exodus outlines the transformation of the jewish people and the jewish civilization, religion etc. from one level to another. And that transformation carried on into christianity and islam, to eventually transform the spiritual and physical nature of humanity. The language of exodus indicates the writers were trying to write a history, albeit one based on a somewhat tenuous oral tradition, and one which was later modified by inserted material from almost half a millenia on. The very question "did that really happen" owes its existence to a transformation that took place in jewish religious belief from ancient sumerian and other beliefs. For earlier people reality WAS the eternal and the spiritual . The israelites became psychologically the first people to think in and exist in, the here and now, in real time. The past is no longer just a source of exemplars but a stage in the road to the present. In exodus as in the new testament , the soujourn in the desert brings an epiphany and a transition point. And within exodus is the genesis(pardon the pun) of the world's greatest/most enduring set of laws, designed to guide people, both in relationship with god, and also with them selves; the 10 commanndments And so, even though there is no definitive proof (but some intriguing circumstantial evidence such as the fact that moses name is actually egyptian, not hebrew, but the writers of exodus did not know this) the power of exodus is not in its literal/historical truth, but in its enduring spiritual truths. And in the way it redefined a people, a culture, and eventually, humanity's relationship with their gods and with how we perceive our reality. A lot of the ideas/concepts here, i got from "The gifts of the jews.- How a tribe of desert nomads changed the way everyone thinks and feels" by Thomas Cahill, Doubleday, 1998. Edited April 13, 2011 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ships-cat Posted April 13, 2011 #8 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hmmmm.... I'm not sure that the American Indian tribes where necessarily Nomadic (some might have been). If such a tribe spend generations following certain trails, stopping at specific oasis's, trading at particular towns, then there MAY be cumulative evidence of their existance. However, according to the bible, the Israelites where only wandering in the desert for 40 years. In archaeological terms, this is the blink if a camels eyelid, so it is hardly suprising that they left few enduring traces. meow purr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d e v i c e Posted April 13, 2011 #9 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hmmmm.... I'm not sure that the American Indian tribes where necessarily Nomadic (some might have been). If such a tribe spend generations following certain trails, stopping at specific oasis's, trading at particular towns, then there MAY be cumulative evidence of their existance. However, according to the bible, the Israelites where only wandering in the desert for 40 years. In archaeological terms, this is the blink if a camels eyelid, so it is hardly suprising that they left few enduring traces. meow purr Fair enough. You're probably right ships-cat. Btw, Im not really saying the Exodus didn't happen, just that no 'physical' evidence has materialised that I'm aware of. Be good if archeologists did discover something - it would be important on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d e v i c e Posted April 13, 2011 #10 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Extremely interesting Mr Walker, and quite profound. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshy Posted April 13, 2011 #11 Share Posted April 13, 2011 wach the BBCs Bibles Buried Secrets 3 part series, the first part deals with this article at least in part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnite Posted April 13, 2011 #12 Share Posted April 13, 2011 The ten plauges of Egypt all have natural causes as well as the parting of the Red Sea, but I believe it is all true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptozological Mascot Posted April 13, 2011 #13 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Try watching The Naked Archeologist 's show concerning Mt Sinai. He actually finds proof in ancient rock writings of nomadic Hebrew tribes. Aside from that, keep in mind that the Battle of Troy took place during roughly the same period. There had been no proof of its actual existance for thousands of years until just recently in our history. Now archeologists readily accept that there was indeed a Troy and that there was a huge battle that could have lasted for ten years there. The desert is huge and has many buried secrets... not all of them will have survived time's erosive compulsion, but I believe that more evidence will surface again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davedini Posted April 13, 2011 #14 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Moses was my great great great grandpa and he passed down the secret that he never really did any of that and its all a lie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mklsgl Posted April 13, 2011 #15 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Fair enough. You're probably right ships-cat. Btw, Im not really saying the Exodus didn't happen, just that no 'physical' evidence has materialised that I'm aware of. Be good if archeologists did discover something - it would be important on many levels. Simcha Jacobovich (the Naked Archeologist already mentioned) and James Cameron made a documentary that argues (academically) 'yes'; Rabbi David Wolpe and others have argued otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Posted April 14, 2011 #16 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Mako (member here) put out a very interesting post on Moses : link KMT_SESH (another member here) also had an interesting take on the Moses timeline (post #21) : link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted April 14, 2011 #17 Share Posted April 14, 2011 All the mention nomadic tribes wasn't chased by any other civilisation, there wanted to slaughter them? Wouldn't be actually easier to find trace then?? If they were chased by the Egyptians, those trace would be readily available for good archeologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Ghost Posted April 15, 2011 #18 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Historians have repeatedly concluded that the the Exodus story and most of the stories of the Bible are impossible. Most of them were created or merged from stories of other cultures of the time period(many of which share the same myths with a different twist). The Torah (beginning of old testament) and the later stories added to it were just created or synthesized to spur on nationalism and secure a strong cultural identity to fight against and conquer the territory which would become Israel. Considering how insular and unwilling Jewish people have been to integrate with other societies, it seems pretty clear the people who made it up were political geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mklsgl Posted April 15, 2011 #19 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Historians have repeatedly concluded that the the Exodus story and most of the stories of the Bible are impossible. Most of them were created or merged from stories of other cultures of the time period(many of which share the same myths with a different twist). The Torah (beginning of old testament) and the later stories added to it were just created or synthesized to spur on nationalism and secure a strong cultural identity to fight against and conquer the territory which would become Israel. Considering how insular and unwilling Jewish people have been to integrate with other societies, it seems pretty clear the people who made it up were political geniuses. Your knowledge of Judaism is severely lacking. Your words are offensive and entirely inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted April 15, 2011 #20 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Historians have repeatedly concluded that the the Exodus story and most of the stories of the Bible are impossible. Most of them were created or merged from stories of other cultures of the time period(many of which share the same myths with a different twist). The Torah (beginning of old testament) and the later stories added to it were just created or synthesized to spur on nationalism and secure a strong cultural identity to fight against and conquer the territory which would become Israel. Considering how insular and unwilling Jewish people have been to integrate with other societies, it seems pretty clear the people who made it up were political geniuses. Wow, this is simply not true. And, this kind of ignorance is disrespectful to Judaism . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted April 15, 2011 #21 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If the tribe was nomadic, then....no...you wouldn't expect them to leave any traces for archaeologists to find. meow purr:) This is true. The controversy, however, is that there seems to be no trace of them in Egypt prior to the Exodus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mklsgl Posted April 16, 2011 #22 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Rabbi David Wolpe - http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/12/Did-The-Exodus-Really-Happen.aspx "Exodus Decoded" Wiki and "Exodus Debunked" - http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/09/debunking-the-exodus-decoded.aspx#Article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus_Decoded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted April 16, 2011 #23 Share Posted April 16, 2011 No disrespect to anyones religeous faith but you'd think if an entire race of people were walking around in the dessert for years and years, they'd leave some sort of physical traces behind for modern archeologists to one day discover and study. But there's nothing - so far. So....hmmm. a group of people living in tents. even tbeir temple was a tent. so no there wouldnt be any buildings left for archeologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted April 16, 2011 #24 Share Posted April 16, 2011 This is true. The controversy, however, is that there seems to be no trace of them in Egypt prior to the Exodus. yes there is. they have found stables for the number of horses that the eytptians sent after them. up until they found the stables, they thought that the egytians couldnt have had that many horses. they supposedly have also found the location where they crossed the red sea, by biblical discription. but it isnt across the main body of the sea but the arm that seperates sudan from arabia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mklsgl Posted April 16, 2011 #25 Share Posted April 16, 2011 a group of people living in tents. even tbeir temple was a tent. so no there wouldnt be any buildings left for archeologists. hey daniel... there is Midrash which states that one tribe was appointed to 'clean up' so as not to leave a trail and be followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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