Wolves taken off endangered species list.

[~TheBigK~]

first where do u get your info on the yellowstone population?? is that a park count?? if so no human harvesting wouls be counted there..it is a FACT the wolves have overpopulated the park and have spilled out so with the overpopulation of the wolves what would the head count on hoofed animals be then smart guy?? OH BY THE WAY IF YOUR GOING TO COPY WORD FOR WORD FROM THE INTERNATIONAL WOLF CENTER MAYBE U SHOULD CREDIT THEM CLOWN!!!ever heard of surplus killing???u probably read it on their page but chose to ignore it because thats how u spew out your half truths!!!ARE WOLVES DANGEROUS TO PEOPLE???ONCE AGAIN U COPIED FROM THE IWC BUT OF COURSE ONLY CHOSE TO PUT WHAT U WANTED...WOLVES KILLING PEOPLE IN NORTH AMERICA IS WELL DOCUMENTED AND WOLVES WHO BECOME USED TO PEOPLE WILL SHOW NO FEAR AND WILL ASSOCIATE PEOPLE WITH FOOD once again common sense plagarizer!!!!for anyone who wants to read pro wolf facts that even the pro wolf people cant cover up go to the international wolf center and see what the politician chose to twist around and what he decided not to OFFICIALLY tell u!!!heres a FACTOID for u u con artist the upper peninsula of mich had an estimated population of 570 wolves in 2009 and were expected to eat 17 to 29000 deer that year and hunters took 30000 so explain that???U CLAIM 9000 WOLVES ARE GOING TO EAT 48000 DEER MAX WHEN 570 COULD POSSIBLY EAT 29000????maybe u should google some math!!!!oh by the way those r official dnr numbers but i forgot their liars tryin to line their pockets right??? when has someone been killed by a wolf???once again go to your favorite page it will tell u there a couple instances!!!!why is idaho declaring wolves a disaster emergency so law enforcement can shoot them on sight???why is everyone wrong but YOU???we already know your a copier so we know u can be completely trusted!!!!lol....u just keep on twisting your lies around why ill go ahead and give people the sites your gettin this stuff from pal so they can see your a clown!!!!!!!!

Err, hey buddy, I'm not sure if you get how debates in this forum work yet. Generally if it's a controversial topic you state why or why not you agree with it, and provide evidence or articles to back up why you've come to that conclusion. Now, if you go read the post of mine that you're referring to (slowly this time) you might catch that I didn't claim anything from the articles to be my own words. I thought the quotation marks around the sentences might have given that away. Not sure if you noticed that I provided links to the articles/quotes that I was referring to, but I did. So before you call me a clown go back and click on the underlined words in my post. I wasn't plagiarizing, I was merely using reliable sources to back up the statistics and evidence I was providing. Which is something you've yet to do.

Again, wolves are not dangerous to people. You accuse me of ignoring facts but that seems to be exactly what you're doing. Find me statistics that refute the FACT that dogs owned as pets kill more people than wolves every year, then we'll talk. You've only mentioned wolves being dangerous to people when we try to feed them and get them used to us. Well no crap that's what would happen. That's human error, not the wolves. They are by nature very shy of people. Very. If people let them be, nothing would happen. In case you forgot from my link already, I'll refresh your memory: In 100 years there were only between 20 and 30 wolf attacks. Only 3 of them were fatal and they were because of rabies. So unless you decide to rub raw meat all over yourself and waltz past a wolf with rabies, they are not a threat to you.

And again, every stat I posted was a fact from reliable sites which you apparently missed. Also, I wouldn't go around calling people clowns, plagiarizers, and con-artists for not giving sites credit when you didn't provide a link for your stat of wolf killings from the DNR. So far you've done nothing but give your opinion without any evidence to back it up. So if you want to debate with me, try to back up your claims, and do it civilly instead of using caps lock as if it will make what you're saying more accurate.

[paul the walrus]

I am just going to come out and say it, nirvana91, please go back and take a 4th grade english class before you post again. How could you ever make a decent point and expect to be taken seriously, when you butcher the english language so badly. I am not an English major, but I would be ashamed to post in the manor that you have in this thread. Maybe you don't care how your posts look, but nobody will take you seriously, or even read the junk you type, when you present it like you have in this thread. You are a hot forum posting mess dude.

Clean up your act and your posts, that's my opinion.

Paul the Walrus

P.S. Sorry Moderators, I had to post this, I read all of his responses and seriously, they hurt my eyes.

[nirvana91]

I am just going to come out and say it, nirvana91, please go back and take a 4th grade english class before you post again. How could you ever make a decent point and expect to be taken seriously, when you butcher the english language so badly. I am not an English major, but I would be ashamed to post in the manor that you have in this thread. Maybe you don't care how your posts look, but nobody will take you seriously, or even read the junk you type, when you present it like you have in this thread. You are a hot forum posting mess dude.

Clean up your act and your posts, that's my opinion.

Paul the Walrus

P.S. Sorry Moderators, I had to post this, I read all of his responses and seriously, they hurt my eyes.

hahahahaha look im not bothering posting on this subject anymore but since my abbreviations of some words made U a little sick i would love to point out that you need to read what you right sir and your spelling!!example "manor" i think the correct spelling is "manner"!!lol..i just thought i would throw that out there and you know the saying about those living in glass houses casting the first stone dont you?? lol

[danielost]

if by the law wolves are no longer indangered then they shouldnt be on the list.

they are not the only ones who have recovered. the bold eagle also has recovered. the eagle was kept on the list because they are our symbol, the wolf doesnt have that protection. i am sure that the states will put hunting limits on the wolves like they have for the crocs and gaters in the south.

personally i dont think anyone should go hunting except for food and then only if you cant afford to go to the store and buy food.

Edited May 1, 2011 by danielost

[nirvana91]

Err, hey buddy, I'm not sure if you get how debates in this forum work yet. Generally if it's a controversial topic you state why or why not you agree with it, and provide evidence or articles to back up why you've come to that conclusion. Now, if you go read the post of mine that you're referring to (slowly this time) you might catch that I didn't claim anything from the articles to be my own words. I thought the quotation marks around the sentences might have given that away. Not sure if you noticed that I provided links to the articles/quotes that I was referring to, but I did. So before you call me a clown go back and click on the underlined words in my post. I wasn't plagiarizing, I was merely using reliable sources to back up the statistics and evidence I was providing. Which is something you've yet to do.

Again, wolves are not dangerous to people. You accuse me of ignoring facts but that seems to be exactly what you're doing. Find me statistics that refute the FACT that dogs owned as pets kill more people than wolves every year, then we'll talk. You've only mentioned wolves being dangerous to people when we try to feed them and get them used to us. Well no crap that's what would happen. That's human error, not the wolves. They are by nature very shy of people. Very. If people let them be, nothing would happen. In case you forgot from my link already, I'll refresh your memory: In 100 years there were only between 20 and 30 wolf attacks. Only 3 of them were fatal and they were because of rabies. So unless you decide to rub raw meat all over yourself and waltz past a wolf with rabies, they are not a threat to you.

And again, every stat I posted was a fact from reliable sites which you apparently missed. Also, I wouldn't go around calling people clowns, plagiarizers, and con-artists for not giving sites credit when you didn't provide a link for your stat of wolf killings from the DNR. So far you've done nothing but give your opinion without any evidence to back it up. So if you want to debate with me, try to back up your claims, and do it civilly instead of using caps lock as if it will make what you're saying more accurate.

er hey young lady in case u didnt get the memo im done on this and i believe i gave a couple examples to things i was saying so u could look them up and i believe i also said no matter which way u looked at it both sides could find stuff to back them up...as far as the dnr numbers u r a googler i told u where i got it i believe soooooooo GOOGLE it!!!and arent u the one who got her info from the wolf sanctuary?? if so u are a clown period and i gave examples of why u were twisting **EDIT** around if that was u then tell the whole story not just the parts u want people to see and dont feed me no line because i googled it and that site was the first to pop up and it wasnt hard at all to find where u got your info so get off your soap box alright and as far as how to debate read the posts im not the one throwing out remarks but the one responding...you know funny thing is i found another site day before yesterday that named this site as having an agenda and whether or not that is true or not i dont know but i do know that on here it seems if someone doesnt agree with your position the whole site seems to come rain fire down buts thats cool i like it so once again what fails to get mentioned I LOVE WOLVES PERIOD!!!!regardless which way u want to twist it and i am done on this topic which means im finished which means i have no interest which means stop tryin to sneak in cheap shots which means if u dont understand google it lol

**The language filters are there for a reason. Nirvana.**

**Also, don't expect to be taken seriously if you cannot put forth the effort to type properly when making your argument. The use of paragraphs and complete words does wonders for credibility.**

Edited May 1, 2011 by aquatus1

[nirvana91]

if by the law wolves are no longer indangered then they shouldnt be on the list.

they are not the only ones who have recovered. the bold eagle also has recovered. the eagle was kept on the list because they are our symbol, the wolf doesnt have that protection. i am sure that the states will put hunting limits on the wolves like they have for the crocs and gaters in the south.

personally i dont think anyone should go hunting except for food and then only if you cant afford to go to the store and buy food.

i couldnt have said it better myself

[~TheBigK~]

er hey young lady in case u didnt get the memo im done on this and i believe i gave a couple examples to things i was saying so u could look them up and i believe i also said no matter which way u looked at it both sides could find stuff to back them up...as far as the dnr numbers u r a googler i told u where i got it i believe soooooooo GOOGLE it!!!and arent u the one who got her info from the wolf sanctuary?? if so u are a clown period and i gave examples of why u were twisting **EDIT** around if that was u then tell the whole story not just the parts u want people to see and dont feed me no line because i googled it and that site was the first to pop up and it wasnt hard at all to find where u got your info so get off your soap box alright and as far as how to debate read the posts im not the one throwing out remarks but the one responding...you know funny thing is i found another site day before yesterday that named this site as having an agenda and whether or not that is true or not i dont know but i do know that on here it seems if someone doesnt agree with your position the whole site seems to come rain fire down buts thats cool i like it so once again what fails to get mentioned I LOVE WOLVES PERIOD!!!!regardless which way u want to twist it and i am done on this topic which means im finished which means i have no interest which means stop tryin to sneak in cheap shots which means if u dont understand google it lol

**The language filters are there for a reason. Nirvana.**

**Also, don't expect to be taken seriously if you cannot put forth the effort to type properly when making your argument. The use of paragraphs and complete words does wonders for credibility.**

Dude, read my posts. I'm not cheap shotting anything. I'm not the one doing name-calling here. And yes, I am very capable of googling information. But the point was it was very hypocritical of you to attack me for "plagiarizing" and not posting where I got my info from (even though I very clearly did) when you didn't do that yourself.

I'm not throwing out random remarks either. I'm doing everything the way it should be done and keeping my composure while doing it, which can't be said for you. I also have every right to be on my soap box, as do you. My point was, if you make claims then back them up with evidence.

[~TheBigK~]

personally i dont think anyone should go hunting except for food and then only if you cant afford to go to the store and buy food.

I agree with this. This is the 2nd thread I've agreed with you on something today, weird.

The only thing though is that I believe they shouldn't be taken off in the first place. I have no problem hunting animals that need controlled or that aren't on an endangered list. I just think this is a situation that could get out of hand quickly and become very unnecessary.

[danielost]

I agree with this. This is the 2nd thread I've agreed with you on something today, weird.

The only thing though is that I believe they shouldn't be taken off in the first place. I have no problem hunting animals that need controlled or that aren't on an endangered list. I just think this is a situation that could get out of hand quickly and become very unnecessary.

its already legal to kill the wolves if they are killing your livestock at least in utah

[danielost]

I agree with this. This is the 2nd thread I've agreed with you on something today, weird.

The only thing though is that I believe they shouldn't be taken off in the first place. I have no problem hunting animals that need controlled or that aren't on an endangered list. I just think this is a situation that could get out of hand quickly and become very unnecessary.

its already legal to kill the wolves if they are killing your livestock at least in utah

[~TheBigK~]

its already legal to kill the wolves if they are killing your livestock at least in utah

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that I understand what you meant about them being allowed to be hunted if they were off the list. I just don't think they should be taken off yet.

[danielost]

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that I understand what you meant about them being allowed to be hunted if they were off the list. I just don't think they should be taken off yet.

if i went hunting i would take a cam,. unless i was desperate.

[nirvana91]

er hey young lady in case u didnt get the memo im done on this and i believe i gave a couple examples to things i was saying so u could look them up and i believe i also said no matter which way u looked at it both sides could find stuff to back them up...as far as the dnr numbers u r a googler i told u where i got it i believe soooooooo GOOGLE it!!!and arent u the one who got her info from the wolf sanctuary?? if so u are a clown period and i gave examples of why u were twisting **EDIT** around if that was u then tell the whole story not just the parts u want people to see and dont feed me no line because i googled it and that site was the first to pop up and it wasnt hard at all to find where u got your info so get off your soap box alright and as far as how to debate read the posts im not the one throwing out remarks but the one responding...you know funny thing is i found another site day before yesterday that named this site as having an agenda and whether or not that is true or not i dont know but i do know that on here it seems if someone doesnt agree with your position the whole site seems to come rain fire down buts thats cool i like it so once again what fails to get mentioned I LOVE WOLVES PERIOD!!!!regardless which way u want to twist it and i am done on this topic which means im finished which means i have no interest which means stop tryin to sneak in cheap shots which means if u dont understand google it lol

**The language filters are there for a reason. Nirvana.**

**Also, don't expect to be taken seriously if you cannot put forth the effort to type properly when making your argument. The use of paragraphs and complete words does wonders for credibility.**

the last comments made on this topic i agree with completely and are what i said to begin with...now on to one more thing are u seriously telling me the fact that i shorten some words, and dont we all who text with cell phones and the fact that i dont care about dropping in periods or starting new paragraphs has anything to do with the conversation that was had?? thats completely ridiculous!!so u sit there on your high horse takin little cheap shots and nitpicking my grammar because i choose not to drop a period why the spelling on this whole topic has been atrocious!!lol...do me a favor and keep your lame comments to yourself!!!bad language i will take the heat for my bad but as far as dropping periods and working through paragraphs well thats my choice and if you dont like it then too bad!! nothing in the terms says everything had to be put together all prim and proper..and keep your goofy consonants comments to yourself ...oops no paragraphs but i spelled everything right

[~TheBigK~]

If you don't like how things work then don't post here. You're not going to last long anyway if you try to pick fights with mods. Besides the "language" part of the rules says to not use mobile shorthand. Go look for yourself. And no, not everyone who texts shortens there words, I'm one of them.

Anyhow, now you're just dragging this off-topic. Plus, you keep telling people to get off their high horse but you seem to be steadfast on yours. Nothing wrong with that if you stick to the topic of wolves and at least attempt to be respectful. So, maybe you should try that.

Edited May 1, 2011 by ~TheBigK~

[Rhincewind]

people like u will let a pack of rats live in their house and stuff them full of cheese because u dont wanna snap a trap on them so what people like u and people like me think should have no bearing on how this animal should be managed..a coward from a copter??once again if the government has to do it its the only cost effective way and hunting with dogs is a lion thing because if u read some recent news stories u run a pack of dogs after packs of wolves u wont have any dogs left!!!and i think your personal beliefs are the whole problem with this whole discussion as long as u can try to force feed your beliefs down everyones throats then u feel better about yourself

personal beliefs are never to problem. most of the people who have posted here are adult and mature about the issue. I love wolve but hate rats and if some where near where I live and I saw them then yes I would put traps down. The only reason wolves aren't in the uk is that humans wipped them out.

no-one is forcing any beliefs on anyone else becaues they all agree with each other. you are the only one who dissagrees and you make your point's in a very aggressive way. I learnt something a long time ago. 'The abused kick downwards' someone is annoyed so they look for someone/something weaker than them and less able to defend so they can feel all big and confident with themselves. The bigger the animal the better the human feels. But the human is to afraid to fight directly so they use technology to cheat. You are not controling wolf numbers by shooting them, you are hunting them for the thrill of it. Maybe you are lacking in some area and need to reasure yourself that you are still a big strong human who can kill a wolf.

You want to kill a wolf then take it head on. Claw v claw ( thing is I don't reccommend that you do this as a wolf will be WAY smarter that you will ever be.)

wolves need to be protected form people like you so the next generation can see them and learn from them. If humans leave the animals alone and give them the space they need then they will leave us alone.

I don't watch disney. I like other people here live in the real world and I am well aware of what wolves can do. I am also aware that they were here first and techically the planet belongs to them.

[Sakari]

its already legal to kill the wolves if they are killing your livestock at least in utah

It was not legal to Kill Wolves, even if they were killing your livestock.Until Feb. 2011....The old Management plan is below...Sucks that they can hunt them now....

Under this plan, six strategies are proposed:

• Develop and implement outreach programs.

• Manage wolf/human interactions to benefit both humans and wolves.

• Develop and implement wolf monitoring and research programs.

• Manage wolf/wildlife interactions to meet the objectives of this plan.

• Control livestock depredation and fully compensate livestock owners for

losses of livestock to wolves.

• Provide funding for wolf management.

Utah Wolf Management Plan

Here is where it passed....

http://www.sltrib.co...e-salt.html.csp

Edited May 1, 2011 by Sakari

[aquatus1]

the last comments made on this topic i agree with completely and are what i said to begin with...now on to one more thing are u seriously telling me the fact that i shorten some words, and dont we all who text with cell phones and the fact that i dont care about dropping in periods or starting new paragraphs has anything to do with the conversation that was had??

Yes, it does. It affects the credibility of your presentation. And I had to moderate this site with nothing but a cellphone for over a month, and I did not shorten any words.

thats completely ridiculous!!so u sit there on your high horse takin little cheap shots and nitpicking my grammar because i choose not to drop a period why the spelling on this whole topic has been atrocious!!lol...do me a favor and keep your lame comments to yourself!!!bad language i will take the heat for my bad but as far as dropping periods and working through paragraphs well thats my choice and if you dont like it then too bad!!

Nirvana, I am going to give you one warning, so listen carefully. I don't care what you talk about, who you talk to, or how you talk. If you break the rules, I will correct you. And if you say things that are blatantly wrong, I will correct you.

Understand this: You are blatantly wrong thinking that your presentation does not affect your credibility. It affects it as much as your actions do, and frankly, the comments you make and the way you make them borders on childish. This is the image you are creating for yourself. Either reign it in, or don't post. This is a discussion forum, for adult, civil, intelligent discussion. This is not a chat board, where you can decide to act anyway that you like and demand to be treated the same as people who act in a far more mature manner.

nothing in the terms says everything had to be put together all prim and proper..and keep your goofy consonants comments to yourself ...oops no paragraphs but i spelled everything right

Spelling incorrectly isn't against the forum rules. In fact, we have a rule that tells people not to use spelling as a counterpoint. We do, however, have a rule concerning shortened speech. Please review the RULES that you already agreed to follow when you first joined this site.

If you have any further questions regarding this issue, address them via the PM, as per the forum rules.

[danielost]

It was not legal to Kill Wolves, even if they were killing your livestock.Until Feb. 2011....The old Management plan is below...Sucks that they can hunt them now....

Here is where it passed....

http://www.sltrib.co...e-salt.html.csp

did you read the title of the story.

Utah Senate resolution: Allow wolf hunts

but according to the op, there are no wolves in utah at all, so why would utah want to pass the above law. but then again sometime ago, dont know when they made it illegal to kill whales.

looks like they have to wait for the federal go ahead on it.

Edited May 2, 2011 by danielost

[Sakari]

did you read the title of the story.

Utah Senate resolution: Allow wolf hunts

but according to the op, there are no wolves in utah at all, so why would utah want to pass the above law. but then again sometime ago, dont know when they made it illegal to kill whales.

looks like they have to wait for the federal go ahead on it.

Did you read what I typed

It was not legal to Kill Wolves, even if they were killing your livestock.Until Feb. 2011..........

I did miss that they need Fed approval....I hope it is denied....Look at my signature, it is a link...I am not as up to date on this as I used to be.

[odiesbsc]

Nope. I tend to keep the place clean so rats won't show up. And if we ended up with rats or mice, I'd call someone to come trap them and remove them.

You have crazy ass assumptions kid.. and even more pathetic the more you post. You never give a reason why pred hunting is needed.. and the answer is simple, because they do not need to be. And they're not lions, they're cougars. Lions live in Africa. That's the big continent across the atlantic in case you didn't know.

You can't even correctly name the preds you slaughter with no reason. *rolls her eyes* You're done.

Bolding and underlining mine.

Have you ever heard of a "mountain lion" ? If you haven't, then you don't know diddley squat about what you're talking about.

[~TheBigK~]

Have you ever heard of a "mountain lion" ? If you haven't, then you don't know diddley squat about what you're talking about.

It's just a name, they're also called panthers but most people picture the black ones from the jungle when they hear that word. Mountain lions and regular African lions are two different things.

[odiesbsc]

It's just a name, they're also called panthers but most people picture the black ones from the jungle when they hear that word. Mountain lions and regular African lions are two different things.

I know they're two different things. The point being, is you critisized another member for using the term "lion" and pointed out that lions are found in Africa. I am pointing out that a good many people in the US use the term "mountain lion" or "lion" when speaking of cougers. I am very sure that the member knows fully well that lions are found in Africa.

Odie

[~TheBigK~]

I know they're two different things. The point being, is you critisized another member for using the term "lion" and pointed out that lions are found in Africa. I am pointing out that a good many people in the US use the term "mountain lion" or "lion" when speaking of cougers. I am very sure that the member knows fully well that lions are found in Africa.

Odie

I didn't criticize anyone. I just thought it was silly to nitpick at something like this. I'm sure SC knows people in the US use the term mountain lion, but I don't think many people call them just "lions."

[Sakari]

I know they're two different things. The point being, is you critisized another member for using the term "lion" and pointed out that lions are found in Africa. I am pointing out that a good many people in the US use the term "mountain lion" or "lion" when speaking of cougers. I am very sure that the member knows fully well that lions are found in Africa.

Odie

I didn't criticize anyone. I just thought it was silly to nitpick at something like this. I'm sure SC knows people in the US use the term mountain lion, but I don't think many people call them just "lions."

I call them Cats

In Nevada we call them Mountain Lions, in Oregon they call them Cougars....At Um they may be called a Giant Hyrax.....

This topic lost what it was about....Kind of sad...

[SilverCougar]

Bolding and underlining mine.

Have you ever heard of a "mountain lion" ? If you haven't, then you don't know diddley squat about what you're talking about.

Cougar, puma, mountain lion, Deer tiger, Devil's cat, Florida panther, painter, panther. Never once were felis concolor was ever called just "lion".

Even being called panther is wrong, as the only true panther is the leopard. Even Cougar's genus name isn't the same as Lions, tigers and leopards. They're Panthera. Cougars are same as domesticated cats. Felis.

They are one of the only large cats that can actually purr like small cats. They range from Canada to Peru with the small pockets in the Everglades. All but extinct in the eastern area of the country but there are the few rare sightings. (I grew up in the Adirondacks and have on the very rare occasion heard one)

The most common foreign name for cougar is puma and it's variations.

While the older ones learn to shy away from people, the younger ones are known to snag little kinds that are generally left unattended as they they are small and snack sized.. much like the fawns of deer and elk that they normally try for.

They don't roar, but yowl, screech, and growl. The south west natives view them as leaders.. teachers.. especially for hunting. Wise. While the PNW natives view them as evil beings and are taboo. One reason is because a giant cougar tried to attack a whale and that's why some whales have the grooves on their throats.

They don't form prides, in fact they are quite happy being solitary. Which is another thing that makes them different then lions.

Tell me again how I don't know diddly squat about the animal that's my namesake.

Sorry Sakari... I didn't mean to derail your thread on wolves.. But when it comes to hunting both wolves and cougars.. it really is a sore spot. Both should never be hunted, and the manner in which they are is sickening and cowardly.