On The March With The English Defence League

[purplepsyche]

Once again ignoring the Jewish courts, silly EDL. Abolish all religion from law not just Sharia, I'm just saying.

So... We should be as bad as dark-age barely-human brainwashed morons? I still say it's the countries that's the problem and not the faith, I mean atrocities have been committed in the name of most religions it's just we became sane before they did and its caused a cultural clash. Unfortunately some western people become brainwashed too, I realise this but we need to stamp our dark-age thought before we tackle the religion.

Islamic history dark ages

I think you'd do well to learn something about the "Dark Ages" before attempting to insult that what your attempt at insult denote you know nothing about.

[Viral]

Islamic history dark ages

I think you'd do well to learn something about the "Dark Ages" before attempting to insult that what your attempt at insult denote you know nothing about.

Yeah... Of course you'd never consider that by 'Dark Age' I was referring to the period of European history, Mr. White Knight. Also maybe next time someone uses a phrase such as 'dark age thought' you should think more about the connotations, just a friendly hint

the uaf is a front for the swp...do you agree with them?

not anywhere near the same level as the student protests. or that farmers riot.

some protestors walked past a cafe...someone threw something and cracked a window...and some protestors ran into the cafe shouting.

where's the fire extinguisher off the roof moment?

wheres the signs mocking the holocaust?

the signs in praise of terrorists?

I happen to be a moderate Socialist so I agree with them loosely.

Student Protests were about having their futures robbed, billions of pounds were cut out of Higher Education, I think we had more of a reason to protest than irrationally thinking you're going to be put in the grip of Sharia.

Also, as I said, extremists of any cause are idiots and that includes the student protests, the EDL and the UAF.

viral - the correct response to such idiots is ridicule,....and in the early years post 9/11 i downplayed any threat from such a minority of muslims and had faith that basic humour would defeat such depressing idealologies...

the problem...the game changer for me.... is the whole 'offensive' concept...certain righteous anti-racist concepts of political correctness have been and are being co-opted into being used as tools to defend the indefensible...like death threats to cartoonists and the murder of film makers...we can't ridicule islam as we can any other religion you'd care to mention...muslims get offended....that's not the problem....the problem is the liberal middle class who then legislate against it.

if i wanted to make the point that the bible the quran and the torah are simply pieces of paper with writing on and that nothing was gonna happen to me if i did so...which religions follower would most likely make death threats?

any answer is irrelevant ...the point is that muslim offence would be looked upon, and taken more seriously, than any christian or jewish offence.

that is a dangerous road. we spent 100's of years fighting to free ourselves of religious oppression in europe...to think any of them are deserving of special treatment is retrograde...regardless of which religion you're talking about.

With this, I can agree. People being offended should be a non-issue, people need to grow much thicker skin. Also, as much as I am more to the left than right I do dislike most leftists for their *****-footing attitudes towards these issues however I equally dislike the right for their levels of hatred and discrimination (though both are fringe elements of each political wing - or so I'd wish).

Muslims would threaten to kill you, Christians and Jews would most likely just think you're a dick. However not all Muslims and certainly not most western Muslims, you might get a punch to the face but that's the worst. However if we look at the middle-east they're rioting and killing any western people they find.

Also, I'll point out now that at least in the US, the most hate crimes are against Jewish people. Islamophobia is a problem, yes but in the US antisemitism is.

Actually, does anyone have numbers for the UK? I assumed they'd follow the US model but I'm doubting myself a bit and couldn't find anything.

I will testify to the end that it's Eastern Islam that causes these problems and corrupts our own people but at the same time we need to be careful as targeting groups creates reactionary organisations and rallies support for the extremists, I wouldn't be surprised if the EDL has accomplished this already.

[dekker87]

I happen to be a moderate Socialist so I agree with them loosely.

have you any idea of the history or actual beliefs of the SWP? they're practically stalinist. i've no beef with socialists...i come from a family of them...but the SWP are another thing entirely...look into it.

Student Protests were about having their futures robbed, billions of pounds were cut out of Higher Education, I think we had more of a reason to protest than irrationally thinking you're going to be put in the grip of Sharia.

in your opinion...i totally disagree...students are entitled to protest...so are the edl.

about having their futures robbed,

don't be so melodramatic...it's about having to pay their way in society...that's all.

whose future is being robbed if sharia law becomes widespread?

regardless it's irrelevant what cause in involved....you're condemning the edl for the violent behaviour on protests...yet this is generally how people protest in this country. i'm not goin to be childish but i can go back and apply your statements about trouble following EDL demos to the student protests...or the countryside alliance protests.

and how about the G20 ones? i've friends who work in the city who were trapped inside their office during that....they were photocopying £50 notes and throwing them out the window at the protestors but that's another story..

let's be honest here too...the swp agitates behind the scenes on the student demos and does the same at the 'anti-war' ones...they show support for terrorists during the al quds marches in london and the same for the ira during the bloody sunday ones...they are the ones telling asian communities that the EDL is racist and they are the ones organising the counter-protests that end up causing violence.

yet no comment from the chattering classes about that little group. instead a genuinely grass roots working class group like the EDL get slaughtered for behaviour that seems to be acceptable when the cause if politically correct. you can't have it all ways my friend.

i've heard rumours that the EDL will counter-protest future fees demos...would that be fair to prevent a protest taking place?

thats what the uaf / swp do to EDL demos.

you wanna get into it reference student cuts then we can go on to another thread but why should those economically disadvantaged in society pay for those with greater potential to got to university and exploit that potential?

i went to uni....i paid for myself...i got no real assistance other than a student loan...i see no problem in that.

it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned...no-one is going to be prevented from goin to uni...they will just have to pay the fees back when they get a job earning enough to do so.

the demographic of students on those protests pretty much summed things up imo...hardly the economic underclass were they?

Edited April 21, 2011 by dekker87

[JamieSymptom]

1 example - the MAC member who burnt a poppy got a 70 quid fine.

the white english lad who burnt a koran got 70 days in nick.

how is that equitable treatment?

I don't know if you've ever noticed, but the same offences get different sentences ALL THE TIME - different towns, different judges etc.

That is nothing new and has nothing to do with MAC or EDL, it is a common occurance with all crime, from theft up to murder.

Perhaps the EDL should be campaigning for mandatory default punishments for the full range of crimes, regardless of any variation. That would at least be a definite goal, although pretty impossible to achieve.

you're gonna love this one - the EDL supporters who are racist are just the radicals...most EDL supporters are peace lovers.

From my experience, it would be more like "Most English people are peace loving, it's the EDL who are the radicals".

Honestly, people who have never had any experience of the EDL in any way might be swayed by their proclamations of peace, but not me.

when the EDL actually espouse racial hatred is the point at which i believe they are racist as an organisation.

are you telling me there are no labour or tory voters who use such language? no? then does they're use of such words make labour or the tories racist?

I don't see Labour or Tory marches in my town causing trouble and using that language en masse in a very public and provocative way.

they would say that wouldnt they...

I see, so when Muslims do not condemn radicals they are secretly condoning their actions, and when Muslims do condemn radicals they are lying?

were people throwing bricks about?

And bottles, they kept the 200 police very busy.

without the UAF mugs coming out to demonstrate against the EDL there would be no violence. let me say this clearly:

Rubbish - there was no UAF in Halifax on Saturday, they still acted violently. Even thought the muslim demonstrators were over a mile away, out of sight completely.

over 80% of those arrested on these demonstrations are anti-EDL.

Saturday puts lie to this as well - 15 arrest in the EDL demo in the town center. 0 arrests in the muslim demonstration in Park Ward.

football lads were at the beginning of the EDL because they can see better than anyone the double standards involved here.

a football supporter who wears a hood with a scarf round his face is likely to be stopped and searched...why are those pseudo-terrorists that profess to be muslims not have the same treatment?

I'll be honest, I don't like football, never have. Partly because I never got the macho footy hooligan image that so many kids seemed eager to cultivate.

The hooligan crews were at the start of the EDL because they were itching to get opportunities to 'take liberties' and have fights, which they weren't able to do at matches any more since the major crackdowns on hooliganism.

I appreciate that anyone who follows football will probably think I'm talking out of line there - but I am talking about hooligans, casual crews, not football fans in general.

[dekker87]

Honestly, people who have never had any experience of the EDL in any way might be swayed by their proclamations of peace, but not me.

but you see anyone tangenitally associated with the EDL as representative...and you've already made your mind up in any case.

I don't see Labour or Tory marches in my town causing trouble and using that language en masse in a very public and provocative way.

student protests?

countryside alliance marches?

cartoon protests?

al quds march?

I see, so when Muslims do not condemn radicals they are secretly condoning their actions, and when Muslims do condemn radicals they are lying?

they're not condemning the radical idealology are they.

Rubbish - there was no UAF in Halifax on Saturday, they still acted violently. Even thought the muslim demonstrators were over a mile away, out of sight completely.

was this actually an EDL march or just some numpties who wanted a fight with the local asians?

Saturday puts lie to this as well - 15 arrest in the EDL demo in the town center. 0 arrests in the muslim demonstration in Park Ward.

was this an official demonstration?

The hooligan crews were at the start of the EDL because they were itching to get opportunities to 'take liberties' and have fights, which they weren't able to do at matches any more since the major crackdowns on hooliganism.

I appreciate that anyone who follows football will probably think I'm talking out of line there - but I am talking about hooligans, casual crews, not football fans in general.

with respect you clearly know nothing of that culture at all.

[Paracelse]

Well, considering there's an effort, which can be found online easily enough, that denounces any allusion to "Islamification", as a "urban legend" and unworthy of being taken seriously, I wish the EDL all the success in the world.

It's so easy to say, oh that's not happening here! And when creeping Sharia smacks the public attention through media reports of murdered daughters, due to their being deemed too "westernized" by their murdering father, it's not urban legend at all. It's a bloody urban fact. Ignoring the reports that occur about terrorist Islam's crimes in neighborhoods in England, on a case by case basis, while excusing it as a rare thing or worse yet, to pander to bleeding hearts who say, well we have to be tolerant of other cultures, is to ignore what's happening in one's own backyard that supports the facts Islamification is having great affect. When native citizens excuse violent Muslims behaviors, because they're Muslim's, or it's a rare thing, or one has to be tolerant. Or, it's not as bad as they say, people are just propagating the fear because they're Islamophobic!

If England want's to survive, they better with a quickness become TerroristIslamophobic and then they better become English activists fighting against terrorist Islam gaining a foothold. Creeping Sharia, domestic Taliban social agenda's among non-Muslim communities, can only gain success if they're pardoned, excused or permitted to.

Because radical terrorist Islam does not tolerate anyone else. It's why you'll witness Muslims demanding their right to build their Mosques in western territories, but there's not a single Jewish temple nor Christian church permitted to be erected in Saudi Arabia or Mecca!

And Christians in Iraq are screaming to get out, because terrorist Muslims there are killing them, while America and her allies still have troops in place and especially when we were there in force. How's that happen? One has to wonder. When America is wrongly called a, "Christian nation" and our troops are on the ground in Iraq, and all the while terrorist Muslims are abducting, slaughtering "Apostates" (Muslims that converted to Christianity) and burning churches, that were permitted to operate in the open during Husein's reign, without abatement.

Tolerance be damned!

One only tolerates what is otherwise intolerable.

No nation's people have to tolerate a terrorist agenda! Islam is not a religion. It's a political ideology clad as a religion. England better fight terrorist Islam as they'd fight any aggressor against their nation and people. Else, tolerance will enslave them all one pandering excuse at a time.

It's not only happening in UK, it has been happening in France for ages, unfortunately the French medias do not report those abuse, keeping the people in the dark. Also unfortunate, the only group denouncing it is a far right (almost neo-nazi) group called the Front National. Kind of sick.

[Mattshark]

Well, considering there's an effort, which can be found online easily enough, that denounces any allusion to "Islamification", as a "urban legend" and unworthy of being taken seriously, I wish the EDL all the success in the world.

It's so easy to say, oh that's not happening here! And when creeping Sharia smacks the public attention through media reports of murdered daughters, due to their being deemed too "westernized" by their murdering father, it's not urban legend at all. It's a bloody urban fact. Ignoring the reports that occur about terrorist Islam's crimes in neighborhoods in England, on a case by case basis, while excusing it as a rare thing or worse yet, to pander to bleeding hearts who say, well we have to be tolerant of other cultures, is to ignore what's happening in one's own backyard that supports the facts Islamification is having great affect. When native citizens excuse violent Muslims behaviors, because they're Muslim's, or it's a rare thing, or one has to be tolerant. Or, it's not as bad as they say, people are just propagating the fear because they're Islamophobic!

If England want's to survive, they better with a quickness become TerroristIslamophobic and then they better become English activists fighting against terrorist Islam gaining a foothold. Creeping Sharia, domestic Taliban social agenda's among non-Muslim communities, can only gain success if they're pardoned, excused or permitted to.

Because radical terrorist Islam does not tolerate anyone else. It's why you'll witness Muslims demanding their right to build their Mosques in western territories, but there's not a single Jewish temple nor Christian church permitted to be erected in Saudi Arabia or Mecca!

And Christians in Iraq are screaming to get out, because terrorist Muslims there are killing them, while America and her allies still have troops in place and especially when we were there in force. How's that happen? One has to wonder. When America is wrongly called a, "Christian nation" and our troops are on the ground in Iraq, and all the while terrorist Muslims are abducting, slaughtering "Apostates" (Muslims that converted to Christianity) and burning churches, that were permitted to operate in the open during Husein's reign, without abatement.

Tolerance be damned!

One only tolerates what is otherwise intolerable.

No nation's people have to tolerate a terrorist agenda! Islam is not a religion. It's a political ideology clad as a religion. England better fight terrorist Islam as they'd fight any aggressor against their nation and people. Else, tolerance will enslave them all one pandering excuse at a time.

This is, quite frankly, a load of vapid rubbish.

[JamieSymptom]

but you see anyone tangenitally associated with the EDL as representative...and you've already made your mind up in any case.

I'm not going to lie, I can't understand anyone who would give the EDL even the slightest bit of credibility, I just find it bizarre.

student protests?

countryside alliance marches?

cartoon protests?

al quds march?

All that you have listed are not specifically Labour or Tory organisations. For the record, I do not agree with or condone the violence and radicalism that all these protests have included, and will happily talk about that in other threads, but this is about the EDL in particular.

they're not condemning the radical idealology are they.

With respect, you seem to be convinced that all muslims agree with radical theology. I know from my own life experiences that this is not true. Having grown up with muslim schoolfriends and colleagues I know this is not the case. People who have no experience of the muslim community and view them as dangerous outsiders are simply mistaken.

was this actually an EDL march or just some numpties who wanted a fight with the local asians?

was this an official demonstration?

This was official but small. The police were notified in advance, there were EDL flags on display and calls on the EDL websites for support. So yeah, official but small. Not a national march, we shall be getting one of those in the summer apparently, God help us.

with respect you clearly know nothing of that culture at all.

I don't claim to, I am a complete outsider to football culture. But in my eyes, hooliganism is boorish, macho and violent. There are many people who have tried to convince me that hooly gangs are noble warriors and all that. Balls, I say. Thugs and simple idiots. Rather smack you than talk to you.

[Pezmo]

Governments fault, if anything a revolution is needed to wipe the slate clean and start over.

[Viral]

have you any idea of the history or actual beliefs of the SWP? the

i went to uni....i paid for myself...i got no real assistance other than a student loan...i see no problem in that.

it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned...no-one is going to be prevented from goin to uni...they will just have to pay the fees back when they get a job earning enough to do so.

the demographic of students on those protests pretty much summed things up imo...hardly the economic underclass were they?

Did you actually pay attention to the student protests? Apparently not because if you did it was the cuts everyone was riled about and not the fees, I went to three different protests (one local and two in London) and about 1 in 10 people had a sign about fees and the rests was about cuts, we had billions of money taken out of education and then the extra fees we have to pay don't even scratch the surface of the amount of money that will be missing. That's why most of the people at the protest were already University students, because they'd be affected by the cuts. The media was fixated on the fees but that didn't reflect the actual protest.

Also, my previous posts condemned a lot of those in the student protests.

Still, compare that with the EDL who go around towns and cities and wreck **** up, I've been to one of their demos and could only laugh at them, these people know little about Islam, their own country or the judicial system - Sharia or not. Now I know what you're going to say about there being intellectuals in the movement but that sure as Hell 'ain't that paedophile Tommy Robinson or any other of the speakers at their events. If it weren't for you I'd doubt any sympathisers had a braincell between them

[dekker87]

that paedophile Tommy Robinson

that's the sort of nonsense i'm talking about.

that isn't true.

[Mattshark]

with respect you clearly know nothing of that culture at all.

I do and the EDL very much has its roots in football hooligan crews and Tommy Robinson was a member of one these crews in Luton.

[purplepsyche]

It's not only happening in UK, it has been happening in France for ages, unfortunately the French medias do not report those abuse, keeping the people in the dark. Also unfortunate, the only group denouncing it is a far right (almost neo-nazi) group called the Front National. Kind of sick.

I wouldn't know about the neo-nazi group you mention. Though Neo-Nazi's in this country, U.S. , tend to take the opportunity to march and spit hate toward any issue that relates to minorities. They're not a serious activist group, they're simply seeking to provoke violence so they can bash on people they find worthy of a punch. Some NN groups have attempted to join with the KKK in Klan demonstrations, as is depicted in Documentaries where film crews have had permission from both fronts to record their activities and "enlighten" the viewer public as to the motives and intent of what some call "the new Klan" and "Neo-Nazi's" movement. Which with regard to the later, if I'm not mistaken, are now referred to as "wolf packs", because rather than assemble in meetings and then disperse in a planned occupation of surrounding towns and cities, as the traditional bald immediately profiled NN member, they're now growing their hair, including facial hair, so as to fit in in a more stealth approach to occupying those area's where they believe their violent racist presence is needed.

So NN's in France, like the Front National, is nothing known to me.

What I read in this OP I do support however, with regard to the EDL. Theirs appears to be a far right counter demonstration, counter activist movement facing down what is the far right extremist Muslim factions that harbor radical's intent on their own occupation of countries they've either immigrated to from Muslim countries, or are members who are native to a particular non-Muslim country but have converted unto the most extremist sect of Islam.

Islamification of a country is something to be on guard against. Radical far right extremist Islam is counter freedom and counter liberty. The Sharia law aspect is interesting because Sharia law only applies between Muslims. However, in matters of finance and business, it's an entirely different matter.

I also like that the EDL has said, per the OP as well, that their aim is to fight discrimination against other oppressed members of English society. Gays, Women. So it appears they're a civil rights activist group as well.

I've not witnessed EDL in person, so while there always stands to be critics who will denigrate such activist measures for their own reasons, thus far what I've read of EDL seems to be a grass roots movement intent on educating the public as to the subtle influx of radical Islam into England, and as such EDL seeks to stem the tide by bringing awareness and a counter protest and activist movement just as intently committed to halting radical Islam's progression across the country, as radical Islam may appear to be intent on gaining ground.

When the archbishop of Canterbury said a few years ago now that Sharia law was inevitable in Britain, I think he demonstrated an insight into a movement others may not have been privy to. That he was made to renounce that proclamation just days later, indicates he knew exactly what he was talking about because some vested interest in censorship insisted he recant and stand mute about the matter.

I like that EDL refuses to stand idle and quiet in the face of what is willful intent when it comes to that what inspires far right extremist radical Islam.

I wish the good people of England strength, resolve and success.

[Mattshark]

Yesh Psyche, you really don't understand what the EDL are. They are thugs and morons who just hate and nothing more, they don't discriminate between anyone who is a Muslim, they are nationalist morons and a waste of space.

[dekker87]

I do and the EDL very much has its roots in football hooligan crews and Tommy Robinson was a member of one these crews in Luton.

i never denied that!

they generally aren't the knuckle draggin dribbling thick spastics the media likes to protray them as..

[Mattshark]

i never denied that!

they generally aren't the knuckle draggin dribbling thick spastics the media likes to protray them as..

Quite a lot of them really are. They certainly aren't a pleasant bunch or moderate in any way.

[Paracelse]

I wouldn't know about the neo-nazi group you mention. Though Neo-Nazi's in this country, U.S. , tend to take the opportunity to march and spit hate toward any issue that relates to minorities. They're not a serious activist group, they're simply seeking to provoke violence so they can bash on people they find worthy of a punch. Some NN groups have attempted to join with the KKK in Klan demonstrations, as is depicted in Documentaries where film crews have had permission from both fronts to record their activities and "enlighten" the viewer public as to the motives and intent of what some call "the new Klan" and "Neo-Nazi's" movement. Which with regard to the later, if I'm not mistaken, are now referred to as "wolf packs", because rather than assemble in meetings and then disperse in a planned occupation of surrounding towns and cities, as the traditional bald immediately profiled NN member, they're now growing their hair, including facial hair, so as to fit in in a more stealth approach to occupying those area's where they believe their violent racist presence is needed.

So NN's in France, like the Front National, is nothing known to me.

What I read in this OP I do support however, with regard to the EDL. Theirs appears to be a far right counter demonstration, counter activist movement facing down what is the far right extremist Muslim factions that harbor radical's intent on their own occupation of countries they've either immigrated to from Muslim countries, or are members who are native to a particular non-Muslim country but have converted unto the most extremist sect of Islam.

Islamification of a country is something to be on guard against. Radical far right extremist Islam is counter freedom and counter liberty. The Sharia law aspect is interesting because Sharia law only applies between Muslims. However, in matters of finance and business, it's an entirely different matter.

I also like that the EDL has said, per the OP as well, that their aim is to fight discrimination against other oppressed members of English society. Gays, Women. So it appears they're a civil rights activist group as well.

I've not witnessed EDL in person, so while there always stands to be critics who will denigrate such activist measures for their own reasons, thus far what I've read of EDL seems to be a grass roots movement intent on educating the public as to the subtle influx of radical Islam into England, and as such EDL seeks to stem the tide by bringing awareness and a counter protest and activist movement just as intently committed to halting radical Islam's progression across the country, as radical Islam may appear to be intent on gaining ground.

When the archbishop of Canterbury said a few years ago now that Sharia law was inevitable in Britain, I think he demonstrated an insight into a movement others may not have been privy to. That he was made to renounce that proclamation just days later, indicates he knew exactly what he was talking about because some vested interest in censorship insisted he recant and stand mute about the matter.

I like that EDL refuses to stand idle and quiet in the face of what is willful intent when it comes to that what inspires far right extremist radical Islam.

I wish the good people of England strength, resolve and success.

He was the leader of the Front National until very recently and his daughter took the lead. She doesn't appear as xenophobic as he was but heck she might hide better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen

[Viral]

that's the sort of nonsense i'm talking about.

that isn't true.

He admitted downloading the images.

[itsnotoutthere]

Did you actually pay attention to the student protests? Apparently not because if you did it was the cuts everyone was riled about and not the fees, I went to three different protests (one local and two in London) and about 1 in 10 people had a sign about fees and the rests was about cuts, we had billions of money taken out of education and then the extra fees we have to pay don't even scratch the surface of the amount of money that will be missing. That's why most of the people at the protest were already University students, because they'd be affected by the cuts. The media was fixated on the fees but that didn't reflect the actual protest.

Also, my previous posts condemned a lot of those in the student protests.

Still, compare that with the EDL who go around towns and cities and wreck **** up, I've been to one of their demos and could only laugh at them, these people know little about Islam, their own country or the judicial system - Sharia or not. Now I know what you're going to say about there being intellectuals in the movement but that sure as Hell 'ain't that paedophile Tommy Robinson or any other of the speakers at their events. If it weren't for you I'd doubt any sympathisers had a braincell between them

Yes, strange that the lentil eating great unwashed failed so miserably to protest in the same way when Labour introduced tuition fees in the beginning. I think you find that the students were outnumbered by the UAF & socialist worker thugs.

The 'student' March provided something for everyone. It gave the TUC a chance to head up a "It's a knock out" style competition over which union had the most members or colourful displays. It gave the Socialist workers an opportunity to try and sell newspapers and it gave great unwashed yet another excuse to sit down in other peoples property and demand they pay more taxes to the Government they hate. The Police got plenty of overtime, the faux anarchists had their day out smashing stuff up (not much of it belonging to their number 1 enemy, the State) and the press got their pics and story.

I have no idea if it was 400,000 or less, but it was big. Certainly, they are the type of people who expect to be fed by politicians promises, and most were simply there not to protect the rights of others, democracy, freedom. No, they were their to make sure their slice of the pie they have greedily gorged from over the past 13 years remains intact. Wave after wave of diversity coordinators headed from the Embankment, proudly waving their "hands OFF MY pension" banners. People who claim disability allowance instead of working managed to briskly trot the few miles to listen to Ed Miliband declare himself the new Nelson Mandela. Unemployed scousers headed in from Euston to demand more "funding" (yet never managed to get to London to find a job) and of course, the evil tories were all to blame.

But what of this alternative? We are woefully in debt, money has no real value, we produce nothing, are owned by banks and the vested interests of those who fund our political parties, our laws are made by unelected foreigners and we employ millions at the cost of those on minimum wage just to support "the consumer price index" and put enough money in the system that nail salons opened by people with a grant to get them off the dole can paint the nails of those ON the dole.

I wish the Public Sector well. The fat, talentless, grey zombies I saw shuffling through London are not interested in anything but their own vested financial interests. Solidarity bruvvers? Well, only for the likes of you and me to pay their wages and mortgages whilst they dictate how we must live from their council empires .

Sorry, guys, you had your cake, you ate it all and now it's time to pay the bill. Don't even THINK about handing it on to my kids. The Party is over, time for the hangover to kick in.

Edited April 24, 2011 by itsnotoutthere

[Mattshark]

Yes, strange that the lentil eating great unwashed failed so miserably to protest in the same way when Labour introduced tuition fees in the beginning. I think you find that the students were outnumbered by the UAF & socialist worker thugs.

The 'student' March provided something for everyone. It gave the TUC a chance to head up a "It's a knock out" style competition over which union had the most members or colourful displays. It gave the Socialist workers an opportunity to try and sell newspapers and it gave great unwashed yet another excuse to sit down in other peoples property and demand they pay more taxes to the Government they hate. The Police got plenty of overtime, the faux anarchists had their day out smashing stuff up (not much of it belonging to their number 1 enemy, the State) and the press got their pics and story.

I have no idea if it was 400,000 or less, but it was big. Certainly, they are the type of people who expect to be fed by politicians promises, and most were simply there not to protect the rights of others, democracy, freedom. No, they were their to make sure their slice of the pie they have greedily gorged from over the past 13 years remains intact. Wave after wave of diversity coordinators headed from the Embankment, proudly waving their "hands OFF MY pension" banners. People who claim disability allowance instead of working managed to briskly trot the few miles to listen to Ed Miliband declare himself the new Nelson Mandela. Unemployed scousers headed in from Euston to demand more "funding" (yet never managed to get to London to find a job) and of course, the evil tories were all to blame.

But what of this alternative? We are woefully in debt, money has no real value, we produce nothing, are owned by banks and the vested interests of those who fund our political parties, our laws are made by unelected foreigners and we employ millions at the cost of those on minimum wage just to support "the consumer price index" and put enough money in the system that nail salons opened by people with a grant to get them off the dole can paint the nails of those ON the dole.

I wish the Public Sector well. The fat, talentless, grey zombies I saw shuffling through London are not interested in anything but their own vested financial interests. Solidarity bruvvers? Well, only for the likes of you and me to pay their wages and mortgages whilst they dictate how we must live from their council empires .

Sorry, guys, you had your cake, you ate it all and now it's time to pay the bill. Don't even THINK about handing it on to my kids. The Party is over, time for the hangover to kick in.

Odd cos I remember protests and strikes with the introduction of tuition fees.

You really thing prohibitive costs that discourage education are a good thing (over say letting Vodaphone off a massive phone bill), the rise is huge one and it doesn't acknowledge the importance of educated individuals in society (I know a lot of the far right are opposed to intellectuals, but see how far we get without doctors).

[itsnotoutthere]

Odd cos I remember protests and strikes with the introduction of tuition fees.

You really thing prohibitive costs that discourage education are a good thing (over say letting Vodaphone off a massive phone bill), the rise is huge one and it doesn't acknowledge the importance of educated individuals in society (I know a lot of the far right are opposed to intellectuals, but see how far we get without doctors).

Would those be the 'educated individuals' we saw smashing up shop windows. & you must also know that the far left are quite happy to be profligate with tax payers money & get quite uppity when it runs out.

Whilst Fabians demand that we continue to borrow (or simply print) yet more money to support spending that has left us crippled with debt, some sensible people (you know, the ones who have to actually pay the ****ing bills at the end of the day) are set to peacefully demand that our debt and our deficit be paid back, leaving our grandchildren the opportunity to live in a world not shackled by the chains of 13 years of profligate Socialism.

p.s. Here's another little insight into where your hard earned tax pounds end up (public sector remember):-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8103471/Council-spending-interactive-map-of-perks-and-redundancy-payments-for-council-staff.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8105130/Council-spending-interactive-map-of-foreign-trips-for-council-staff.html

Edited April 24, 2011 by itsnotoutthere

[Mattshark]

Would those be the 'educated individuals' we saw smashing up shop windows. & you must also know that the far left are quite happy to be profligate with tax payers money & get quite uppity when it runs out.

Whilst Fabians demand that we continue to borrow (or simply print) yet more money to support spending that has left us crippled with debt, some sensible people (you know, the ones who have to actually pay the ****ing bills at the end of the day) are set to peacefully demand that our debt and our deficit be paid back, leaving our grandchildren the opportunity to live in a world not shackled by the chains of 13 years of profligate Socialism.

p.s. Here's another little insight into where your hard earned tax pounds end up (public sector remember):-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8103471/Council-spending-interactive-map-of-perks-and-redundancy-payments-for-council-staff.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8105130/Council-spending-interactive-map-of-foreign-trips-for-council-staff.html

So you consider those to be representative of the student population as a whole? I certainly don't. There were also people who were not student who attended the protest simply to cause trouble.

While we do need to cut our deficit, we are doing it at the detriment to society as a whole and the ones who are being punished are those from a poor background and they are the ones who will find going to university much harder with these changes. In what way is a less educated society a better thing?

You think that the last Labour government was socialist? Really? If you want profligate, look at the banking system, which is responsible for a massive amount of the deficit through their greed and who are still a problem.

Yes, well redundancy pay is expected when you have a determination to cut jobs so dramatically.

Is there any context shown for those journeys? I see it shows China for Liverpool, but that was because Liverpool decided to be the only UK representative in the Shanghai world fair, which brought a lot of money into Liverpool and by default, the UK (Liverpool also has one of the oldest China towns in Europe).

[itsnotoutthere]

Odd cos I remember protests and strikes with the introduction of tuition fees.

You really thing prohibitive costs that discourage education are a good thing (over say letting Vodaphone off a massive phone bill), the rise is huge one and it doesn't acknowledge the importance of educated individuals in society (I know a lot of the far right are opposed to intellectuals, but see how far we get without doctors).

Actually i think you'll find it's the far left that have a problem with intellectuals, check your chinese & russian communist history.

[itsnotoutthere]

So you consider those to be representative of the student population as a whole? I certainly don't. There were also people who were not student who attended the protest simply to cause trouble

Hence my reference to the SWP & UAF.

While we do need to cut our deficit, we are doing it at the detriment to society as a whole and the ones who are being punished are those from a poor background and they are the ones who will find going to university much harder with these changes. In what way is a less educated society a better thing?

So presumably you are of the opinion that as long as somebody else picks up the tab a university education is a right to be demanded.

Are you actually suggesting that during the last 13 years of a labour government society was 'better educated'?

You think that the last Labour government was socialist? Really? If you want profligate, look at the banking system, which is responsible for a massive amount of the deficit through their greed and who are still a problem.

Well, the large percentage of the last labour government were card carrying members of the communist party in their early political careers.

Yes & who was in charge of the countries finances when the banks were behaving like that, who was still signing off multi-million pound pfi schemes right up until the last election? who gave away our EU rebate costing us millions of pounds more for unelected eurocrats? who left a note for the incoming government 'sorry but there's no money left'?

Yes, well redundancy pay is expected when you have a determination to cut jobs so dramatically.

redundancy!!!! Just look at some of those figures

[Mattshark]

Actually i think you'll find it's the far left that have a problem with intellectuals, check your chinese & russian communist history.

Well extremes of anything have an issue, you just don't need to go as far right as you do left though imo.