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THE MATRIX

Americans agree: The rich should pay higher

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THE MATRIX

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Hey, rich folks! The American people are putting you on notice. They want you to pay higher taxes.

Two new polls suggest there is broad support for raising taxes on households making more than $250,000 a year, and all in the name of deficit reduction.

Heck, even a majority of Republicans want the rich to pay more.

A full 72% of adults approve of increasing federal taxes on households making more than $250,000 starting in 2013, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Fifty-five percent of Republicans want the tax hike, along with 74% of independents and 83% of Democrats.

In case you need more convincing, an ABC News/Washington Post poll released Wednesday asked a similar question. The results: Seventy-two percent of respondents want to raise taxes on the rich to help reduce the deficit, with a similar breakdown by political party.

Looks like the REVOLT is coming.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Honestly, I think the solution is simple - everyone is taxed the same but there is no "get out" clause to be abused by the clever. You earn X, you pay tax on X, a lower tax rate applied across the board would net a higher tax income over all IIRC, while at the same time giving a bit of a tax relief to the poorer members of society.

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ninjadude

Honestly, I think the solution is simple - everyone is taxed the same

That seems ok until you realize the extreme income disparity that exists in just a few families.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

That seems ok until you realize the extreme income disparity that exists in just a few families.

If I'm taxed at 1 cent in the dollar, I'd pay $800 tax. If my brother is taxed 1 cent in the dollar, he'd pay $500 - that sort of thing?

I'd still have more money then my brother, but he'd have lost less money in tax.

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Ignus Fatuus

Americans are ignorant ... the rich already pay most of the taxes in america. When will us americans become wise enough to understand this.

I understand that they are better off even after these taxes yet we cant push the envelope and force the rich to pay more. If we do then they will cut their costs by cutting jobs. This is a unwise decesion!!! There has to be a more wise solution to our problems. Force more taxes ... unemployment will rise and even more jobs will be sent to other countries.

Forrest Gump was right ... stupid is as stupid does. :hmm:

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danielost

Americans are ignorant ... the rich already pay most of the taxes in america. When will us americans become wise enough to understand this.

I understand that they are better off even after these taxes yet we cant push the envelope and force the rich to pay more. If we do then they will cut their costs by cutting jobs. This is a unwise decesion!!! There has to be a more wise solution to our problems. Force more taxes ... unemployment will rise and even more jobs will be sent to other countries.

Forrest Gump was right ... stupid is as stupid does. :hmm:

or, they will stop earning money, ie shut their companies down.

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BlindMessiah

Honestly, I think the solution is simple - everyone is taxed the same but there is no "get out" clause to be abused by the clever. You earn X, you pay tax on X, a lower tax rate applied across the board would net a higher tax income over all IIRC, while at the same time giving a bit of a tax relief to the poorer members of society.

This isn't really fair though. If I make ten million dollars, and there's a 10 percent tax rate, I'll be just as rich with nine million. When you're only making forty thousand, four thousand is a huge tax amount. The gradual progression that we have in place now is fair, we just need to raise the taxes on the higher levels.

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BlindMessiah

Americans are ignorant ... the rich already pay most of the taxes in america. When will us americans become wise enough to understand this.

I understand that they are better off even after these taxes yet we cant push the envelope and force the rich to pay more. If we do then they will cut their costs by cutting jobs. This is a unwise decesion!!! There has to be a more wise solution to our problems. Force more taxes ... unemployment will rise and even more jobs will be sent to other countries.

Forrest Gump was right ... stupid is as stupid does. :hmm:

Rich people don't create jobs. Businesses create jobs. Taxing individuals won't affect employment rates.

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BlindMessiah

or, they will stop earning money, ie shut their companies down.

Once again, an individuals income is separate from the corporation they own. They're separate entities.

Corporations are controlled by share holders, not CEOs. Shareholders aren't going to shut their company down because their CEO is paying more in taxes. The leaps in logic are absurd.

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danielost

This isn't really fair though. If I make ten million dollars, and there's a 10 percent tax rate, I'll be just as rich with nine million. When you're only making forty thousand, four thousand is a huge tax amount. The gradual progression that we have in place now is fair, we just need to raise the taxes on the higher levels.

we are already paying 50(me) to 80(rich) percent in taxes when you add all of the taxes. how much more did you want to take from the rich. and before someone points it out i do not pay income or payroll taxes. but i pay other taxes and taxes are added to what i buy, i do not mean sale tax.

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danielost

Rich people don't create jobs. Businesses create jobs. Taxing individuals won't affect employment rates.

the rich own those businesses, and if taxes go to high even on the individual, they close their business. also why do you think, ceos need to make so much more money than the workers do, to pay those taxes you want to raise even more.

Edited by danielost

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BlindMessiah

we are already paying 50(me) to 80(rich) percent in taxes when you add all of the taxes. how much more did you want to take from the rich. and before someone points it out i do not pay income or payroll taxes. but i pay other taxes and taxes are added to what i buy, i do not mean sale tax.

Exactly what taxes do you pay then if you don't pay income taxes and you don't mean sales tax? And yes, the rich need to pay more. The country has an ever increasing nation deficit and it can't be dealt with strictly through spending cuts. We need increased revenue.

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BlindMessiah

the rich own those businesses, and if taxes go to high even on the individual, they close their business. also why do you think, ceos need to make so much more money than the workers do, to pay those taxes you want to raise even more.

The rich do not own corporations. Shareholders own corporations. CEOs do not have the authority to shut down a business. Even if they did, they wouldn't because that would be freaking stupid. No one quits their job as a means of getting around income taxes.

Why do I think CEOs make more money than workers do? They have highly specialized skills which are needed by the company to create a profit for the shareholders. There are a limited number of people with those specialized skills so they are given high salaries to attract them to the company. It has nothing to do with tax rates. That doesn't even make sense. You're argument is circular in addition to being disconnected from reality.

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danielost

Exactly what taxes do you pay then if you don't pay income taxes and you don't mean sales tax? And yes, the rich need to pay more. The country has an ever increasing nation deficit and it can't be dealt with strictly through spending cuts. We need increased revenue.

i pay for every penny that you charge the rich. me and you and the man down the street and the homeless person and the politician and the visiters from other countries. they all pay for the taxes when they buy something at the store, rent a hotol room, take a cab ride, pay for electricity, all of this is called inflation. the other part of inflation comes in when a pay raise is given, like minimum wage or a new union contract.

Edited by danielost

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danielost

The rich do not own corporations. Shareholders own corporations. CEOs do not have the authority to shut down a business. Even if they did, they wouldn't because that would be freaking stupid. No one quits their job as a means of getting around income taxes.

Why do I think CEOs make more money than workers do? They have highly specialized skills which are needed by the company to create a profit for the shareholders. There are a limited number of people with those specialized skills so they are given high salaries to attract them to the company. It has nothing to do with tax rates. That doesn't even make sense. You're argument is circular in addition to being disconnected from reality.

1 corporations are individuals.

2 income to corporations are taxed twice, once for the corporation and once for the shareholder when they get their dividends.

or your blind to the reality of what is going on, but that is what those politicians in washington want you to be.

Edited by danielost

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BlindMessiah

i pay for every penny that you charge the rich. me and you and the man down the street and the homeless person and the politician and the visiters from other countries. they all pay for the taxes when they buy something at the store, rent a hotol room, take a cab ride, pay for electricity, all of this is called inflation. the other part of inflation comes in when a pay raise is given, like minimum wage or a new union contract.

Price inflation has nothing to do with income tax. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Price inflation is primarily caused by too much demand in an economy.

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BlindMessiah

1 corporations are individuals.

2 income to corporations are taxed twice, once for the corporation and once for the shareholder when they get their dividends.

or your blind to the reality of what is going on, but that is what those politicians in washington want you to be.

Corporations are not individuals. Corporations are business entities controlled by individuals(shareholders). Those individuals gain profit when their stock value goes up. Their profit is completely unrelated to the income taxes of any given individual. As such, personal income taxes will not affect employment. Also, not all stocks pay dividends.

You don't remotely know what you're talking about and you're telling me I'm blind. Please tell me, which politicians in Washington am I listening to?

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Tiggs

This isn't really fair though. If I make ten million dollars, and there's a 10 percent tax rate, I'll be just as rich with nine million. When you're only making forty thousand, four thousand is a huge tax amount. The gradual progression that we have in place now is fair, we just need to raise the taxes on the higher levels.

A flat rate tax with a large exemption band, say, the first $50,000 tax-free, would also work.

One of the problems with a graduated system is that it can be used punitively by government - for example, in the UK, during the seventies, the top tax rates were set at 83% for income above £20,000. That's something which wouldn't happen with a flat tax rate.

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IamsSon

The top 1% of wage earners made 20% of the wealth in the U.S. in 2008... but they paid 38% of the taxes. The bottom 50%of the wage earners made 12.75% of the wealth, but paid less than 3% of the taxes. And now this bottom 50% (the majority of that 72% from the poll) which already basically pays no taxes wants "the rich" to pay their "fair share" of the taxes!? Really?? Exactly what is the "fair share?"

Edited by IamsSon

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BlindMessiah

A flat rate tax with a large exemption band, say, the first $50,000 tax-free, would also work.

One of the problems with a graduated system is that it can be used punitively by government - for example, in the UK, during the seventies, the top tax rates were set at 83% for income above £20,000. That's something which wouldn't happen with a flat tax rate.

I would want to make it even higher than $50,000. It would still drastically affect middle class 5 digit income families. But yes, in theory I would be okay with a flat tax and a large exemption band.

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BlindMessiah

The top 1% of wage earners made 20% of the wealth in the U.S. in 2008... but they paid 38% of the taxes. The bottom 50%of the wage earners made 12.75% of the wealth, but paid less than 3% of the taxes. And now this bottom 50% (the majority of that 72% from the poll) which already basically pays no taxes wants "the rich" to pay their "fair share" of the taxes!? Really?? Exactly what is the "fair share?"

This has nothing to do with fairness. Their is a national need for increased revenue and it is a burden that cannot be bared by the middle and lower classes.

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IamsSon

This has nothing to do with fairness. Their is a national need for increased revenue and it is a burden that cannot be bared by the middle and lower classes.

No, there is a need for reduced spending. We do not have a revenue problem we have a spending problem.

If we keep increasing taxes on "the rich" we're going to see a national situation that will mirror what is happening in California, Illinois, and New York. The "rich" got tired of getting more and more of their money taken away, and they began to leave. New York is almost at the point that even if you tax every resident at over 50%, it still will not be enough to cover the spending. At some point, "the rich" will leave, and then we really will be at a point where we can't pay back.

We need to cut spending. It's not going to be easy, it's not going to be popular, but it is the mature thing to do. We are now at a point that even if we go back to the Reagan Era taxes, we still won't be able to cover spending.

Edited by IamsSon

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BlindMessiah

No, there is a need for reduced spending. We do not have a revenue problem we have a spending problem.

We cannot remove the annual deficit strictly through spending cuts. We need increased revenue.

Edited by BlindMessiah

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danielost

Corporations are not individuals. Corporations are business entities controlled by individuals(shareholders). Those individuals gain profit when their stock value goes up. Their profit is completely unrelated to the income taxes of any given individual. As such, personal income taxes will not affect employment. Also, not all stocks pay dividends.

You don't remotely know what you're talking about and you're telling me I'm blind. Please tell me, which politicians in Washington am I listening to?

the ones who only want to raise taxes on the rich.

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danielost

This has nothing to do with fairness. Their is a national need for increased revenue and it is a burden that cannot be bared by the middle and lower classes.

the is a much higher national need for less spending,.

We cannot remove the annual deficit strictly through spending cuts. We need increased revenue.

make the cuts first and then we can talk higher taxes.

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