What is the weight of the human soul ?

[=Jak=]

when i said remove all electricity from a computer i meant all including the battery. when it is all gone you lose everything. and if you plug it back in you have to reload everything, the reason you don't have to reload when you turn it off, is because of the battery.

Ok, its dead. We take some other energtic thing for example. Take battery, if its energy all sucked out it is dead. Only rechargeable battery can be charged that too for limited times. So If we weight a battery before charge and after charge how much difference we see.

We think the battery is dead. But even a normal battery recharge itself from nature, if we leave it unused.

Like that dead human may be having some hidden energy in it, otherwise we can't find its dna/body. It will decompose in seconds.

I am not sure.

[Soul Kitchen]

If I m right, every living being has a positive and negative charge inbuilt. Without negative circuit will be incomplete and with the help of gravity everything is grounded.

But gravity is not the result of magnetic charges, or certain objects would be repelled.

Such is not the nature of gravity. But gravity somehow has a charge anyways, though...

[devilmaycare]

You missed a reference it seems.

http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2011/05/strange-things-in-the-sky-department-the-soul.html

Hildegard of Bingen (ca. 1098-1179) was a polymathic religious visionary1, composer and writer who was a well-know intellectual whose work attracted the attention of people at all levels, not the least of which were several popes In one version of the manuscript of her 150,000-word work, Scivias (Scito vias Domini, or "Know the Ways of the Lord" ) we find the following illumination, which is basically an image of the object that contains the nameless stuff of the human soul:

The image above—from the Wiesbaden manuscript and unfortunately only in a black-and-white, and found in Charles Singer's From Magic to Science (1928)2--shows Hildegard's vision of the soul entering the body.

It is an extraordinary thing, trying to represent what gives the human-ness to people as seen from a 12th-century perspective, and in Hildegard's version/vision it is the soul, the very essence of the birth and death cycle of human nature. It is resident as we see within a special place in the sky, the "the wisdom of god" (Singer page 226), and it passes from the vault of heaven into the fetus while still within the mother's womb. It is in this square, evidently, that the essential matter of the creator can be found, and within that structure can be seen the essence of the stuff of human nature that is about to pass into the developing fetus through the tube-like connection. As Singer writes, quoting (loosely?) from the manuscript: "down this [the tube] there passes into the child a bright object, described variously as 'spherical' and as 'shapeless' which 'illuminates the whole body' and becomes or develops into the soul." (Singer, p. 226).

Notes

1. Hildegard said that she had these vision's from a very early age, beginning at about age 3.

Sadly she failed to count them.

Edited May 17, 2011 by devilmaycare

[Soul Kitchen]

You missed a reference it seems.

http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2011/05/strange-things-in-the-sky-department-the-soul.html

Hildegard of Bingen (ca. 1098-1179) was a polymathic religious visionary1, composer and writer who was a well-know intellectual whose work attracted the attention of people at all levels, not the least of which were several popes In one version of the manuscript of her 150,000-word work, Scivias (Scito vias Domini, or "Know the Ways of the Lord" ) we find the following illumination, which is basically an image of the object that contains the nameless stuff of the human soul:

The image above—from the Wiesbaden manuscript and unfortunately only in a black-and-white, and found in Charles Singer's From Magic to Science (1928)2--shows Hildegard's vision of the soul entering the body.

It is an extraordinary thing, trying to represent what gives the human-ness to people as seen from a 12th-century perspective, and in Hildegard's version/vision it is the soul, the very essence of the birth and death cycle of human nature. It is resident as we see within a special place in the sky, the "the wisdom of god" (Singer page 226), and it passes from the vault of heaven into the fetus while still within the mother's womb. It is in this square, evidently, that the essential matter of the creator can be found, and within that structure can be seen the essence of the stuff of human nature that is about to pass into the developing fetus through the tube-like connection. As Singer writes, quoting (loosely?) from the manuscript: "down this [the tube] there passes into the child a bright object, described variously as 'spherical' and as 'shapeless' which 'illuminates the whole body' and becomes or develops into the soul." (Singer, p. 226).

Notes

1. Hildegard said that she had these vision's from a very early age, beginning at about age 3.

Sadly she failed to count them.

But it may be one of those things that vary with the person percieving them.

[arglebargle]

Answer to the OP: 16 grams. I have it on good authority.

That is, superstitious old-folks-home caretakers who're redoing their education, and ended up in my class.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Ranyhyn

[daviddee]

i would think the soul as a form of energy(living energy), thus to measure it you would use volume.

I have to agree, I think it is a form of energy ...living energy so it could be measure as volume, or it should be measured as volume..

I did read somewhere that some people were on there bed when dieing and when they did they lost 2 punds right at the point there heart stop......interesting nevertheless.....

David Dee

[vitruvian12]

I have to agree, I think it is a form of energy ...living energy so it could be measure as volume, or it should be measured as volume..

I did read somewhere that some people were on there bed when dieing and when they did they lost 2 punds right at the point there heart stop......interesting nevertheless.....

David Dee

If it has any sort of volume it would be easy to locate its place in the body wouldnt it? If it is energy why would you measure it in volume and not some unit of energy?

[Soul Kitchen]

If it has any sort of volume it would be easy to locate its place in the body wouldnt it? If it is energy why would you measure it in volume and not some unit of energy?

Wouldn't it be a rather minute volume?

The proposed weight is fairly small.

[vitruvian12]

Wouldn't it be a rather minute volume?

The proposed weight is fairly small.

That would depend on the density. Perhaps we will have to wait for someone to identify that value through an equally poor experiment.

If it has volume and mass isnt it matter rather than energy? If it is energy it should be measured in appropriate units.

[Soul Kitchen]

That would depend on the density. Perhaps we will have to wait for someone to identify that value through an equally poor experiment.

If it has volume and mass isnt it matter rather than energy? If it is energy it should be measured in appropriate units.

Matter contains energy. The problem is that people, in their heads, visualize energy as a form of matter. Energy isn't a tangible thing in itself, it is more of a phenomenon.

[vitruvian12]

Matter contains energy. The problem is that people, in their heads, visualize energy as a form of matter. Energy isn't a tangible thing in itself, it is more of a phenomenon.

Energy isnt a phenomenon, its something we manipulate and use everyday. If the soul can be defined by physical measurements like volume and weight, it must have a physical location in the body that we should be able to find. If it is energy (in what form?) then we should be able to detect, identify and measure it. If its neither of these things, which seems to be the case as we have yet to find it, then it must be non-existant or some sort of magical item. If its something magical and invisible to us then what can we possibly know about it?

[Soul Kitchen]

Energy isnt a phenomenon, its something we manipulate and use everyday.

I meant phenomenon as something that occurs, and is observable. I knew it wasn't the best word to describe it but I couldn't think of anything else.

All I meant to explain was that energy isn't what many people think it to be.

They imagine a substance, when energy is just the ability to do work.

If the soul can be defined by physical measurements like volume and weight, it must have a physical location in the body that we should be able to find.

Perhaps we are CAPABLE of finding it, but it can't be easy. Perhaps the soul manifests as a tiny, dense solid hidden away in some nook of the body. Or a vapor that floats across a wide area.

If it is energy (in what form?) then we should be able to detect, identify and measure it.

I'm not sure why you think that we should be able to so easily detect/identify/measure any form of energy.

If its neither of these things, which seems to be the case as we have yet to find it, then it must be non-existant or some sort of magical item. If its something magical and invisible to us then what can we possibly know about it?

Nothing transcends the laws of reality, only the limited human understanding of said laws. There can't be any such thing as "magic".

[vitruvian12]

Nothing transcends the laws of reality, only the limited human understanding of said laws. There can't be any such thing as "magic".

In my opinion the notion of a soul is magical, thats part of the reason why I dont believe we have one. That and the religious aspect that it carries.

I agree the term "energy" is grossly misused, mostly by the new age line of thought. I cringe when I hear it being used, that and "vibration".

[Soul Kitchen]

In all fairness, it's more a matter of a lack of better words. New definitions are assigned to "energy" and "vibration", and are established strongly enough so that, in a way, it isn't misuse any more than it's just an example evolving language.

I'm still not sure exactly what "vibration" is supposed to mean in the new age context, though.

[devilmaycare]

Well, If attention (a tention) is to be defined as whatever it is you pay attention to, then vibration is simply a state of attention of a certain frequency.

Energy defines you, not the other way round.

Putting an arbitrary number to the 'weight' of the soul is utter nonsense to begin with. When we have absolute control over gravity, matter will be of the mind.

Edited June 5, 2011 by devilmaycare

[vitruvian12]

Well, If attention (a tention) is to be defined as whatever it is you pay attention to, then vibration is simply a state of attention of a certain frequency.

Energy defines you, not the other way round.

Putting an arbitrary number to the 'weight' of the soul is utter nonsense to begin with. When we have absolute control over gravity, matter will be of the mind.

If thats your definition of attention then I have to assume your understanding of vibration is equally wrong or made up. Attention is the concentration of your mental awareness on an object, not the object itself like your definition would imply.

[Qingu]

I find it quite amusing, that I have just finished reading Dan Brown's newest novel, the Lost Symbol, in which one of the characters claims she proved the Human soul has weight - and then I run into this thread.

[BiPolarMania]

my humble opinion.....

Number one, the McDougall experiment was done in the early 1900´s with i think about 5-6 patients, and there needs to be a new controlled study with today's technology Things like the weight of the lungs before and after, plus as many other parameter's as we can possibly measure...this seems to be a great way to investigate one of the biggest mysteries left!!

This has been a great thread/forum for a couple of really good ideas, the measuring of the fetus for example, really good idea for the pro life/choice movement, but in this case its only gonna raise the question of when "exactly" does the soul form. Great area for research but logically, first, we need to find evidence that a soul exists at all.

Now, I'm not a scientest (or obviously a good speller) I am a philosopher with a science interest, I see the importance of this discovery over how we get there, but we need to get there...not everything is making sense.

My theory is that the building blocks of the universe, simply worded, is energy. Thus if we have a soul its just another "form" of energy, as Einstein discovered there is a correlation between energy and mass, thus the soul MUST have a weight/mass......but wait....only if it exists.

Thanks for reading...

"Energy is the only religion, Consciousness the only god" - BiPolarMania

[_Only]

My theory is that the building blocks of the universe, simply worded, is energy. Thus if we have a soul its just another "form" of energy, as Einstein discovered there is a correlation between energy and mass, thus the soul MUST have a weight/mass......but wait....only if it exists.

Wait, so electricity has mass? Got a Giorgio Tsoukalos vibe from that statement.

I really think there is a more natural explanation for that 21 gram average taken from 6 people.

[BiPolarMania]

Wait, so electricity has mass? Got a Giorgio Tsoukalos vibe from that statement.

I really think there is a more natural explanation for that 21 gram average taken from 6 people.

Agreed, its very possible, maybe even more plausible, that there is a natural explanation

for this phenomenon. Thus the need for a new investigation.

To measure something means when need a point of reference, if its unmeasurable by today's scientific standard or in other words outside our realm of understanding, then the question itself becomes redundant.

"Energy is the only religion, Consciousness the only god" - BiPolarMania

[-vv-]

On my early 20s I had just decided to study biochemistry. Long days of physiology, biology, physic caught me in those old buildings of the university with hundred of student listening to a professor with some aura of rock star performing in front of a current audience of nerds. I’ve never imagine that in my enlightenment mind I would be pushed to think in the paranormal thanks to those classes that found us more than one time at the edge of the knowledge of the science that planted the seeds that inspire my today research.

In one of those days in physiology's class, the study of the rigor mortis and the mechanims of how the biochemistry of muscles provoke that effect (long to explain now) showed us its relationship in some way with the energy loss at the moment of death, tempted the professor to add a weird comment about some experiment that measured weight loss at the moment of the death. But as he regretted what he had just said suggested to "focus in what we know and don’t get lost in this detail that science can’t explain yet". Just what I needed to hear to do the opposite.

In 1907, Dr. MacDougall, an early 20th century physician in Haverhill, Massachusetts, weighed six patients while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis by placing the entire bed on an industrial sized scale which was apparently sensitive to grams. At the very moment of the death of the patient, he could measure a sudden loss of weight and concluded it should be the soul leaving the body.

A group of physicians were helping him in these experiments trying to obtain a good data that only could be gotten from four of the six patients, as follow, as I could find:

0.75 oz. = 21.3 g

0.5 oz. = 14.2 g (a few moments later the total loss was 1.5 oz.)

0.5 oz. = 14.2 g (a few moments later the total loss was 1.0 oz.)

0.375 oz. = 10.6 g (a moment later the weight seemed to come back and loss was measured at 0 oz.)

It seems that only the first one came out as the symbol of the weight of the soul on the popular culture that referred to the 21 grams of the soul.

[Mikko-kun]

In all fairness, it's more a matter of a lack of better words. New definitions are assigned to "energy" and "vibration", and are established strongly enough so that, in a way, it isn't misuse any more than it's just an example evolving language.

I'm still not sure exactly what "vibration" is supposed to mean in the new age context, though.

Many people link astrology and Edgar Cayce to new age stuff, but I dont know how you even define someone who's a "new age believer" of sort, maybe someone who listen whale sound tapes like Homer did in Simpsons? I do that too though sometimes... I guess there's many kinds of new agers to begin with so it reaaaally depends on who you ask. I think vibrations is just that, vibrations. Movement of atoms, electrons, our movement, everything that moves, "vibes" or feelings, all ordinary things.

Presuming that weight exists as we know it

My theory is that the building blocks of the universe, simply worded, is energy. Thus if we have a soul its just another "form" of energy, as Einstein discovered there is a correlation between energy and mass, thus the soul MUST have a weight/mass......but wait....only if it exists.

Presuming Einstein was right. We humans are a presumptous bunch, are we not? As far as I know, despite of being a bright child, Einstein was no god who can determine the laws of universe, only someone observing them.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Mikko-kun

[Itchy-Brain]

After reading all these posts, I was left wondering about the people who allege the ability for Out of Body experiences and whether or not there have ever been any studies on the difference in their weight whilst their consciousness, or "soul", was on vacation?

[bhakti]

Hi!

I am very interested in this kind of experiments and i wonder, has anyone found an actual article regarding this kind of experiments?

i am working on a simmilar experiment myself and need any information about the measurements done in the past.

somehow i find it very hard to find a single article...

thank u for your help!

[+joc]

If you fart in outer space...do you gain weight or lose weight?

If you are in outer space traveling at the speed of light...and you turn on the headlights...do you slow down or speed up?