Republican Congressman: Iraq War Was Mistake

[Babs]

And now that you figure out that a republican disagrees you are now saying he's wrong, what a joke...You were so sure that he was a democrat...Don't you see how silly you make yourself look when you do stuff like that?

It is blowing up in bushs face and you can't stand it can you...

You're as bad as wun. I read it correctly...I knew he was a republican.... So what?! He's wrong....you're wrong. Do I have to repeat myself?

I am in stitches. You guys are so easy. Nothin' like Friday night at the fights!

P.S. This may come as shock to you, Fluffy, but dems disagree with Kerry too.

....and nightbird...I don't think Bush is a saint. Boy, are you naive.

....Hey, that boat's got your name on it too, 'Permanentkid'.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Babs

[bathory]

who gives a sh** what either of them did in the 60s/70s, i think their political records are a hell of allot more important, as an outsider looking in, it seems to be that all Kerry has going for him is his 4 months in vietnam, and his great armchair quaterbacking skills:)

[Fluffybunny]

You're as bad as wun. I read it correctly...I knew he was a republican.... So what?! He's wrong....you're wrong. Do I have to repeat myself?

Let me help you babs. You seem to need it.

The title of the thread is:

Republican Congressman: Iraq War Was Mistake

Your first response to the thread is:

The Iraq war was a "costly mess" with no quick way out, wrote Bereuter.

"Quick way out!" What a joke...If the dems can't get immediate satisfaction they don't want anything to do with a war. Sorry, guys, but war takes guts, time and commitment. (something the dems seem to be short on  ).

The bolding is my emphasis. Bereuter is a republican and has been for one heck of a long time; the guy is as middle america as they come. You totally missed the fact that the guy you were bashing on was a republican. Much like you have missed so many other things. Now you are going to sit here and lie and say you knew he was a republican. What B.S.

You take what the bush administration feeds you regardless of whether or not there is a fact to back it up...and you look so silly doing it too...

P.S. This may come as shock to you, Fluffy, but dems disagree with Kerry too

Of course they do. What does that have to do with anything?

I am in stitches.  You guys are so easy

If we are so easy, why do you always look so foolish? You realize that don't you? you add your little smilies, and add your comments, but in the end you have just shown that you don't know what you are talking about. The only thing that you bring to the table is your uninformed opinion which you try to present as a fact.

To top it all off, you offer:

Hey, Fluffy ... took up a collection and got a big boat together and we're sending it your way. You're all going to be shipped out; you and all those european thinkers are goin' to europe! 

What the heck are you talking about? Because I have a different opinion that you, you must ship me out of the country? European thinker? because I don't support the war in Iraq? That same war is what has put Bushs approval rating at 51%? Link

What do you want to do babs, ship out the other half of the country that doesn't agree with you? I bet you do...you can't backup your opinion with anything so you'd rather just get rid of the opposition. Classic.

The problem with that babs is that I have done more in my life to support america than you ever will and you know it...It burns you up doesn't it?

[Fluffybunny]

well maybe the d******* should have voted accordingly in regards to giving Bush the go ahead, oh what? he reached it retrospectively? well then his opinion means jack...

Nice language.

I think you missed this part:

Bereuter voted in support of an October 2002 resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq, but he said that vote was based on what he had been told about the weapons threat from Iraq.

"Left unresolved for now is whether intelligence was intentionally misconstrued to justify military action," Bereuter said.

Just like many others in his party as well as the democrats, he based his decision on what "intelligence" Bush had brought to support the invasion/liberation.

We all know how that "intelligence" has panned out.

"Left unresolved for now is whether intelligence was intentionally misconstrued to justify military action," Bereuter said.

That is the million dollar question, and I would be willing to bet that Bush is going to go down for "misconstruing" the intelligence in order to finish his daddies job.

President Truman used to have a sign on his desk that said "The buck stops here"; he was ultimately responsible for his decisions. What do you want to bet that Bush is working really hard right now to pass that buck onto anybody but himself?

[Permakid]

....Hey, that boat's got your name on it too, 'Permanentkid'.

Glad to see you finally figured out what my user name is supposed to mean. Good job! You get a gold star!

Edited August 21, 2004 by Permakid

[bathory]

Just like many others in his party as well as the democrats, he based his decision on what "intelligence" Bush had brought to support the invasion/liberation.

We all know how that "intelligence" has panned out.

I don't know how you can keep doing the whole "bush lied, people died" deal

the fact of the matter is that EVERYONE (important) thought Saddam had WMDs

Kerry, Clinton, Kennedy and Others on WMD

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to

develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That

is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.

We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass

destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great

deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,

chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest

security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time

since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb,

18,1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the

U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if

appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond

effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass

destruction progr ams." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl

Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct.

9,1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and hehas made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass

destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton

Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons

programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs

continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam

continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a

licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten

the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bus h, Signed by

Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and

threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated

of the United Nations. "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept.

27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are

confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and

biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to

build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Iraq's search for

weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should

assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore,

Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and

developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are

confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and

biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to

build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence

reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd

(D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority

to use force-if necessary-to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe

that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real

and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working

aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,

every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show

that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda

members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will

continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,

and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton

(D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that

Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,

murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a

particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to

miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his

continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction

... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is

real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

[Fluffybunny]

I dont have the time to pick apart each one of those quotes or the context in which they were given versus the context which you have presented them. Your list of EVERYONE important is not really everyone important nor is it in context of the discusion at hand. Quotes from 6 years ago when less was known about saddams wmd program dont count for much and the more recent quotes don't change the bottom line that it was bush who pushed for the liberation of iraq based on wmd claims shortly after 9/11.

So yes it is within reason to blame Bush for pushing for a poorly planned war based on poor intelligence.

No one is denying that saddam was a bad man or he did have wmd at one point in the past. He did, and he used them in the past on his own citizens, no one is denying that.

The bottom line is that the weapons inspectors found no wmd, nor any trace of wmd. Biological/nuclear/chemical weapons are not something that can be produced without a great deal of effort on many peoples behalf, leaving trace evidence that can be found regardless of how well a lab is cleaned up.

The inspectors found none, and said so much. They said they needed more time to find out whether he had wmd or not. That was cut short and they weren't able to finish their inspections.

We went in based on flawed evidence and intelligence, as the congressman said; it was a mistake. "Left unresolved for now is whether intelligence was intentionally misconstrued to justify military action,"

Of course it will be some time before that will be known, and I am certain that paper shredders are working around the clock trying to hide any evidence of that type of intention on behalf of the president...

[Babs]

You guys are soooooo easy.

Fluffybunny, Permanent kid....What do these names sound like? With names like these and the thoughts they conjure up, how in the world do you expect to win a war?

These names sound like dems. Fluffybunny, you smoose over points and just say what you want....Oh, and the reason I brought up boat was in reply to your insistence on my enlistment. I'm not trying to get rid of you, although, you are trying to suppress my voice. Be forewarned: Fluffy won't hear any side but his own.

Permakid....I figured out your name a long time ago....I didn't want to be crass.

....hey, THE BOAT IS LEAVING. ..................all aboard.

[wunarmdscissor]

so now your resorting to making fun of their names????????????????????????

How intelligent?

Am sure Babs will strike fear into the hearts of the enemy.

In fact we should fly you to pakistan with a sign saying "BABS" in bold letters attached to you.

Osama would come running.

oops thats right we're in Iraq just now c..cos thats where osama is??? or is it??

Why have we attcked iraq again??

[Babs]

Fluffy...You misconstrue things I post because you are so desperate for rebuttal. Who was it.... nightbird, I think.... said something like the dems being out in 'left field'. You got it!

I know this was a republican speaking and I knew when I read it....so what! There you go making up stuff again. You are like a psychic vampire too Fluffy...always keeping the other person busy...sucking the life out of them with nonsensical BS.

Remember that boat is leaving... repeat... IS LEAVING!

Hope you guys packed enough clothes...'Fluffy and Permakid country' is a long way off from Europe. "Here comes the Kerry-Euro Boat".

I heard that Kerry flew in a French hair stylist to style his hair for a stunt or sport he was undertaking for the common folk. Now that's a real common-man connection; we 'all' fly in French hair stylists before a shoot.

I bet Bush never flew in a French hair stylist.

Edited August 28, 2004 by Babs

[Babs]

Oh scissor...you hide behind that Irag and Osama BS.

[Fluffybunny]

I am not even going to dignify that with a response.

Be forewarned: Fluffy won't hear any side but his own.

Not true at all, but I do require some degree of thought on a matter. Heck, I even agreed with Bathory on an anti-kerry issue because he actually did a little work to provide substance to his message. I have learned from joc and stellar, bathory, kellelor and several others who have differing opinions than I do; when they bring up information that I didn't know about I look at that information and consider it. I hear all of the sides and check the facts myself. I may not always like what I read, and it even sometimes changes my opinions .

I am not afraid to learn new things about my (unwilling) choice for candidate. Can you say the same?

Edited August 22, 2004 by Fluffybunny

[Magikman]

Address and argue the credibility and merits of the topic people, sans all the personal comments and sarcastic quips, or there will be warnings issued and the thread will be closed.

[Babs]

For those who are going out of the country....read this. I know that Fluffy will be traveling soon to France. Some travel tips. This is serious.

From: FOX NEWS

here

Edited August 22, 2004 by Babs

[Babs]

Fluffy...When I was talking about the dems, I meant you and the dems in our country...not the republican speaking in your article. Sorry, if that wasn't clear...when I read back over it, I see I wasn't clear. But you certainly don't have to say I'm lying.... or missed something when I read your article.

You are really quick to jump...which makes me suspicious.

[JAZ76US]

Fluffys last post, the paragraph below the first quote that he put in his post. I think that is what is great about this forum. You have folks who dont agree with each other and give reasons why, links etc. Which make u think about your opinion and theres. Having a open mind is a great thing imo and not just one sided. Just because u are a republican or democrat doesnt mean that u always have to support what either party decides. Because lets face it, none of them are right all the time and we are humans who make mistakes. I was proud of Bush when everyone was in complete awww , disgust, and disbelief when 911 happened. I thought he handled himself well and when America really needed a leader. He stepped up to the plate. I supported the invasion of the country Al-Queda( you know what country i am talking about, not gona even attempt to butcher the name bye my bad spelling ) ruled in. I didnt support the Iraq war. I thought that we should of made sure that wmd's were there and should of had more support from the world. I think that we went in there gun ho and didnt put much thought into the aftermathe of the invasion. That is why imo we have lost so many American lives there and coalition soldiers lives. But that is said and done with now. We just have to focus on finishing the job, whenever that will be. Then getting our soldiers home. I pray everyday for there safe return and for God to watch over them over there. Anyways, keep up the good posts folks. I enjoy reading them.

[+joc]

You seem to be missing a point. The "terrorists" that you speak of were not in Iraq. How many dang times do we have to make that point before you get it?

Let's see, the terrorists were in Iran, Syria, Afgan., Florida...but they weren't in Iraq!?

Babs, he is a republican! He isn't a democrat, did you catch that?

I love how you automatically ASSumed that he was a democrat. That makes me laugh everytime...

Do you understand that Bush has p***ed off his own party, and some of his staunchest supporters?

And Zel Miller a STAUNCH democrat is going to be keynote speaker at the republican convention....so what was your point again?

[Mekorig]

Fox News

Whoaoo..., a little to much paranoia.I read the mesage in the article :" the world isnt safe for us, the honest americans.Dont leave your country or you will be killed or kipnaped or worse. outside is ugly. Keep inside, and be a good and obedient citizen. the goverment will protec you. All Hail Bush"

[Fluffybunny]

Fluffy...When I was talking about the dems, I meant you and the dems in our country...not the republican speaking in your article. Sorry, if that wasn't clear...when I read back over it, I see I wasn't clear. But you certainly don't have to say I'm lying.... or missed something when I read your article.

You are really quick to jump...which makes me suspicious.

Fair enough. I apologize for jumping on you for that. It didn't read that way to me, and that wasn't how I understood it, but I don't want to argue about it if that isn't what you meant.

[Fluffybunny]

Let's see, the terrorists were in Iran, Syria, Afgan., Florida...but they weren't in Iraq!?

What links have we developed between the terrorist that attacked us(al queda) and Iraq? Can you tell, me because I haven't seen anything on a connection, but I may have missed some news account where a connection was made.

I would like to know, please take the time to answer my question on topic...thanks.

And Zel Miller a STAUNCH democrat is going to be keynote speaker at the republican convention....so what was your point again?

My point was that you would have to read my quote in context of the discussion with babs...

She says that she knew that the congresman was a republican, but at first appearence it looked like she assumed that the congressman who thought that there was no quick way out of the war in Iraq and accused him of being a democrat...you would have to go back and read it...I am not going to repeat myself again.

[bathory]

Fluffy, of course those quotes could be taken out of context ( i can't be bothered trying to find the context of each, but hey i'll concede at least a few of them are probably dodgy)

my point was to demonstrate that everyone has always believed that Saddam is developing WMDs (as well as being in constant violation of UN resolutions 1441, a resolution that promised action, the UN offered more sanctions with France promising to veto any military action (lets also ignore the attempted aquisition of uranium, as well as the receipts for a new long range delivery system from north korea as well as the findings of al samoud devlivery systems)

If this isn't a scary thought...

Why would Saddam want medium raneg missiles?

(with a theoretical range of 1200km its well in range of Israel)

i think the problem is that the media don't seem to be covering any of the UN findings etc

its really quite obvious that Saddam was up to something:)

[Fluffybunny]

So does that information add up to the claims that Iraq was 45 minutes away from launching wmd? Does it add up to the need to go in when we did? I am not being sarcastic by asking that question. I haven't seen any information that settles those questions.

I do understand what you are saying, my concern is that there is a difference between understanding that saddam was a very disgusting horribly bad guy who was breaking the un sanctions and "we need to invade now".

It is the timing of the invasion that I am concerned with, and the fact that it is taking away resources from the fight to catch osama and the rest of al-queda...

When I read through the data I see, I still have a hard time understanding the urgency of invading iraq, and taking away resources from the fight to get al-queda in afghanastan. In my opinion alqueda seems to be the immediate priority, not saddam.

btw, thank you very much for working to come up with the information that you do, it is appreciated.

Edited August 22, 2004 by Fluffybunny

[bathory]

how are they taking away resources from getting Al Queda?

there is no 'Al Queda' army any more, there are no massed concentrations of Al Queda members any more, the ones that had existed were slaughtered in afghanistan, or are rotting away in Cuba, so such a huge military presence is not needed. Now its up to intelligence agencies world wide.

Blair should have been kicked in the nuts for saying the whole 45 minutes thing, however that doesn't really take away from what was at the time considered a cause of concern (for many other reasons).

Does it add up to the need to go in when we did?

i think yes, resolution 1441 promised retribution, the UN showed it was a fake, intelligence said Iraq posed a threat, what to do?

In my opinion alqueda seems to be the immediate priority, not saddam.

with the benefit of hindsight of course, however with the evidence of iraq-alqueda collaboration at the time, with the evidence of iraqi wmds and programs, alarm bells must have been ringing up in the oval office (this is all assuming they didn't manufacture the evidence, as well as the evidence from other countries, which i have yet to see any evidence of)

[wunarmdscissor]

how are they taking away resources from getting Al Queda?

there is no 'Al Queda' army any more, there are no massed concentrations of Al Queda members any more, the ones that had existed were slaughtered in afghanistan, or are rotting away in Cuba, so such a huge military presence is not needed. Now its up to intelligence agencies world wide.

If thats the case then how were they able to pull of the madrid bombings.

ANd BABs

Ill hide behind the iraq an osama BS ???

Oh you mean the BS that i actually want osama caught an hes even further from being caught than before we went to iraq???

Cos thats one of the reasons i disagree with the war as does this congressman apparently.

However in blair and bush's defence hindsight is a great thing ...i believe that blair just made a genuine mistake and he was illinformed however bush has so many Hawks around him the reasons for america goin to war are very dodgy indeed.

[bathory]

If thats the case then how were they able to pull of the madrid bombings.

because Al Queda still exists? Military might isn't going to be stopping them...as i said, now its up for Intelligence Agencies around the world to stop the various cells..