Body of late Pope John Paul II exhumed ahead

[Still Waters]

Pope John Paul II's coffin was exhumed today ahead of his beatification as tens of thousands of people began arriving in Rome for one of the biggest events in the Catholic church since his funeral in 2005.

The coffin was removed from the crypts below St Peter's Basilica while top Vatican officials and some of the late pope's closest aides looked on and prayed.

Those present at the ceremony included Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, his personal secretary and right-hand man for decades, and the Polish nuns who ran the papal household for 27 years.

The wooden coffin will be placed in front of the main altar of St Peter's Basilica. After Sunday's beatification mass it will remain in that spot and the basilica will remain open until all the expected one million visitors who want to view it have done so.

Read more...

[Eldorado]

Jeez, our modern world is like the middle-ages at times.

[Karlis]

Catholic Church Seeks Second Miracle to Make Pope John Paul II a Saint

Friday, 29 Apr 2011 08:22 AM by Martin Gould

Roman Catholic leaders are searching for a second miracle so they can elevate the previous pope, John Paul II, to sainthood. They say they have confirmed one miracle attributed to John Paul II, but canonization requires a second.

Now dozens of stories of sudden recoveries from devastating illness, saved lives, and even reunions with long-lost relatives have been posted on the Vatican website by people who claim any one of them could be the required second miracle.

Many say that the Pope appeared to them in dreams during high-risk surgery or serious accidents, helping them to survive.

Source

Edited April 30, 2011 by Karlis

[veledran]

Catholic Church Seeks Second Miracle to Make Pope John Paul II a Saint

Friday, 29 Apr 2011 08:22 AM by Martin Gould

Roman Catholic leaders are searching for a second miracle so they can elevate the previous pope, John Paul II, to sainthood. They say they have confirmed one miracle attributed to John Paul II, but canonization requires a second.

Now dozens of stories of sudden recoveries from devastating illness, saved lives, and even reunions with long-lost relatives have been posted on the Vatican website by people who claim any one of them could be the required second miracle.

Many say that the Pope appeared to them in dreams during high-risk surgery or serious accidents, helping them to survive.

Source

I was sick with food poisoning one time. I had a dream where I was being taken care of a male anthropomorphic fox. When I work up I was better. Guess that means that my dream is valid according to the Catholic church and we should pray to this healing fox spirit person.

[fullywired]

I was sick with food poisoning one time. I had a dream where I was being taken care of a male anthropomorphic fox. When I work up I was better. Guess that means that my dream is valid according to the Catholic church and we should pray to this healing fox spirit person.

The result would be the same no matter who you prayed to

fullywired

[Karlis]

The result would be the same no matter who you prayed to

fullywired

But ...but ... but that's just your opinion...

Karlis

[rashore]

Um wow... Is it normal to take a Popes coffin out for everyone to check out the coffin, then put the coffin back in again? Personally that seems a little odd to me, not sure why people would want to do such a thing.

[Karlis]

Um wow... Is it normal to take a Popes coffin out for everyone to check out the coffin, then put the coffin back in again? Personally that seems a little odd to me, not sure why people would want to do such a thing.

Actually, they did not simply dig up the coffin for everyone to check it out, and then put it back again.

The Pope was originally buried below St Peter's Basilica --- sort of in a type of basement, if you want to call a crypt a basement. The coffin is being moved to a new "place of honour", at the Basilica's main altar.

[rashore]

Actually, they did not simply dig up the coffin for everyone to check it out, and then put it back again.

The Pope was originally buried below St Peter's Basilica --- sort of in a type of basement, if you want to call a crypt a basement. The coffin is being moved to a new "place of honour", at the Basilica's main altar.

Well I guess moving it to a better location makes sense... Why didn't they just put him there in the first place then?

[Karlis]

Well I guess moving it to a better location makes sense... Why didn't they just put him there in the first place then?

Because he was not being considered for sainthood at the time.

[rashore]

Because he was not being considered for sainthood at the time.

Oh, is that the deal? People considered for sainthood get the better burial spot?

I'm honestly not trying to be a dink- I just really don't get it..

[veledran]

The result would be the same no matter who you prayed to

fullywired

Aye, praying to dreams/hallucinations.

If people are obsessed over Pope John II, is it a wonder they dream of him?

Hope they don't chop him up like other saints.

Edited April 30, 2011 by veledran

[Karlis]

Oh, is that the deal? People considered for sainthood get the better burial spot?

I'm honestly not trying to be a dink- I just really don't get it..

Keep in mind that, "give honour to whom honour is due" is an accepted norm in every society.

When a person deemed not worthy to receive a specific honour originally, is at a future time deemed to be worthy of the honour ... don't you think that "due process" should take place to honour that individual?

Any thoughts that I missed mentioning?

Karlis

Edited April 30, 2011 by Karlis
Rephrased the wording of my post

[rashore]

Keep in mind that,"give honour to whom honour is due" is an accepted norm in every society. When a person who was not deemed toreceive a specific honour, is at a future time seen to deserve an honour ... don't you think that due process should take place to honour that individual?

Any thoughts that I missed mentioning?

Karlis

I'm not questioning the honoring thing, I totally get that part... Just didn't understand the moving the corpse around thing. So it's a normal part of procedure that when someone is decided upon to be sainted, their body gets moved to a better spot?

And blech to Veledran... Is it normal to chop up saints?? I mean, I understand if the bones end up getting spread around a bit, but that's after all the flesh is gone.

Edited April 30, 2011 by rashore

[Eldorado]

Hope this isn't an offensive question as I'm genuinely interested.....

Can a saint be demoted and if so would they then be evicted from the VIP burial spot?

Edited April 30, 2011 by Eldorado

[Beckys_Mom]

Because he was not being considered for sainthood at the time.

Sainthood..pending....lol

[Momma Tish]

Hmmmmm interesting. Pope Pius, who was fully aware of and agreed with Nazi atrocities, is being considered for sainthood, if in fact he hasn't already been sainted. And now Pope John Paul, who was fully aware of and stayed mum about how sexually abusive priests were to be handled, is being considered for sainthood. Oh, and did I forget to mention the interview with a particular cardinal who had the audacity to say, prior to Pope Benedict's election, "The Catholic Church is not ready to have a black pope". A cardinal from Nigeria was being considered. This particular cardinal is apparently not aware of his own church's history because the Catholic Church has had not only 3 Black Popes (ancient history) but also 1 female Pope (ancient history).

[libstaK]

Keep in mind that, "give honour to whom honour is due" is an accepted norm in every society.

When a person deemed not worthy to receive a specific honour originally, is at a future time deemed to be worthy of the honour ... don't you think that "due process" should take place to honour that individual?

Any thoughts that I missed mentioning?

Karlis

Only that when the assassination attempt on his life occurred he practiced his faith in full by seeking reconciliation with the man who made the attempt and forgiving him, in person. In fact they prayed together! A truly saintly act in these days don't you think?

[27vet]

And they invited Mugabe who is guilty of gross human rights violations and murder.

[Beckys_Mom]

Only that when the assassination attempt on his life occurred he practiced his faith in full by seeking reconciliation with the man who made the attempt and forgiving him, in person. In fact they prayed together! A truly saintly act in these days don't you think?

More of what the character Jesus would have done

[libstaK]

More of what the character Jesus would have done

Exactly I don't often take their side but this time I think the Catholics got it right.

I also like that he venerated Mary and made it a point to remind us to turn to her to intercede for us, about time the divine feminine had it's rightful place in the Patriarchal Church. The Yang was missing it's Ying me thinks and it's nice he noticed.

[Karlis]

Only that when the assassination attempt on his life occurred he practiced his faith in full by seeking reconciliation with the man who made the attempt and forgiving him, in person. In fact they prayed together! A truly saintly act in these days don't you think?

For a person to be "canonised as a saint" after their death, the Catholic church requires proof of at least two miracles to have been performed by the deceased person, after their death. This is based on the belief that the person is now in heaven, and is able to perform miraculous healing of the living. The fact that the pope "practised his faith in full" while still alive unfortunately does not qualify that person for sainthood, under Catholic church rules.

[Mainpoint]

I dont understand this at all. Why dig the poor guys body up. He should have just been granted this honor when he died. These miracle claims are just nonsense none have been proven by an independant scientific panel. The church should have just "satisfied" itself at the time of death of the late popes miracle and done with it.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Mainpoint

[libstaK]

For a person to be "canonised as a saint" after their death, the Catholic church requires proof of at least two miracles to have been performed by the deceased person, after their death. This is based on the belief that the person is now in heaven, and is able to perform miraculous healing of the living. The fact that the pope "practised his faith in full" while still alive unfortunately does not qualify that person for sainthood, under Catholic church rules.

Yeah I get that, but it kinda reeks considering that the thing we know best about St Francis of Assisi and St Paul is that they both "floated" while they were alive! Ok so he didn't float either ....

I think millions of christians feel the same considering they were chanting for his canonisation at his funeral! Oh well, here come the unsubstantiated and fanciful claims of miracles, should be a fun ride.

[Karlis]

I dont understand this at all. Why dig the poor guys body up. He should have just been granted this honor when he died. These miracle claims are just nonsense none have been proven by an independant scientific panel. The church should have just "satisfied" itself the time of death of the late popes miracle and done with it.

Mainpoint, you write that, "The church should have just "satisfied" itself the time of death of the late popes miracle and done with it." It must be proved that the miracles were accomplished by the person *after* they died. Meaning that after death the saint is in heaven, and performs the miracles, usually in answer to specific prayers.

Those are the rules,

Karlis