Osama Bin Laden Dead

[FurthurBB]

Before Bin Laden the Islamists were separate and nationalistic. They didn't care about the U.S. just their own territory. Ben Laden gave them the first glimmerings of attacking anything else, and while people connected to the nationalistic groups like Al Jihad won't be attacking the U.S., Bin Laden opened the door for a class of Global terrorist that could very well grow unchecked if the Al Qaeda officers get the hell out of Dodge and build up their own training facilities out of sight. We supposedly got all of Al Qaeda's upper echelon already, but they're nothing more than a training group. New schools can be built, and there were plenty of people trained by them who went rogue right from the start.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the CIA and special ops used the information they got from the compound. . . only to run into some very nasty booby traps that kill agents and soldiers.

Well, it is always possible, but if they stay diligent and practice and look at every possibility, like they did this time, I think everything will be all right.

[Wookietim]

I guess I just feel kind of bad about being glad that this man is dead...had nothing to do with you personally. We're good.

Feel free to be glad - like I said in my very first post, if there was a man who deserved death in this world, it was Bin Laden. Even if he had never done anything on 9/11, his other stuff killed thousands of people worldwide over the years and led to the maiming and sorrow of probably millions in a ripple effect. The guy was a monster. I get that, intellectually. I just personally can't share in the emotions of it is all... if you can, more power to you because, to be honest, I think I might be in the wrong here...

[+OverSword]

This whole thing leaves me with kind of a null feeling. After so many years and so many questions raised about 9-11, and who bears ultimate responsibility, and details and major testimony being left out of the official 9-11 report,and so on and so on, how jubilant can anyone with any kind of awareness really feel?

[Space Commander Travis]

I guess I just feel kind of bad about being glad that this man is dead...had nothing to do with you personally. We're good.

I'd like to feel that it would make the slightest difference that he's dead, believe me i would ... if I could feel sure that he hadn't already been dead for some time, or that he ever was this crucial figure without whom all the terrorist networks worldwide would collapse. I just wish I could feel that it would be likely to make any difference... but that would need a radical rethink of the policies of Western governments, that's the only way of stopping terrorism, and I've no reason to think that that's ever likely to happen... in fact, this is just going to encourage them to think that their way can work.

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, it is always possible, but if they stay diligent and practice and look at every possibility, like they did this time, I think everything will be all right.

Did they? If they had looked at every possibility, they might've taken him alive, and that might've been hugely more useful.

[lightly]

Good point Br. , the faked image.. doesn't prove anything really. I don't know what or who to believe

* sorry, couldn't get this horrible image back out of this post

Edited May 2, 2011 by lightly

[FurthurBB]

Did they? If they had looked at every possibility, they might've taken him alive, and that might've been hugely more useful.

I think it was better to kill him, personally. Where would we have held him? How much would it have cost to protect that facility? I can understand that it seems surreal and so fast after 10 long years, but this is all around about the best intelligence operation we have ever pulled off and it was because of diligence and planning. They thought of everything before they acted. What to do with him if they captured him, what to do with him if they killed him. What to do if it was another high ranking Al-Qaeda member. They build mock compounds and practiced for weeks. They warned the British government that it might not be safe for royal couple to travel, and made them believe it without giving it away. They waited until the wedding was over just in case. Never in the history of the US has a secret operation stayed secret for this long. It was very impressive.

[Wookietim]

Good point Br ! i jumped to the conclusion that because the photo on the right was obviously a composite fake , of the other two, that the story was faked. ( I' would like to know who made that composite and who first put it on-line! )

I really don't know what or who to believe!* i have doubts.. .. and, why does it always have to come from an unnamed source!? "A senior U.S. official tells CNN that Osama bin Laden was killed by the U.S. forces in a mansion outside the Pakistani capital of Islamabad along with other family members." http://edition.cnn.c...dex.html?hpt=C1

.. and, can we spell his name right yet? How is it supposed to be spelled for Gob's sake! Osama? or Usama?... how does his mama spell it!? Can that be so friggin hard to find out!? lol.. just always bugged me that all of the brilliant news pundits, and the entire U.S. government can't, effectively and in agreement, get to the bottom of even THAT great and profound mystery!*!*!*!*! I suppose I could find out.. but sheesh! do i have to do everything around here!?

Tell me : What is the officially correct spelling of the leader of Libya? I can think of at least three different spellings and ways of pronouncing it used by various sources and he's been a thorn in our side since the Reagan era...

[FurthurBB]

Good point Br ! i jumped to the conclusion that because the photo on the right was obviously a composite fake , of the other two, that the story was faked. ( I' would like to know who made that composite and who first put it on-line! )

I really don't know what or who to believe!* i have doubts.. .. and, why does it always have to come from an unnamed source!? "A senior U.S. official tells CNN that Osama bin Laden was killed by the U.S. forces in a mansion outside the Pakistani capital of Islamabad along with other family members." http://edition.cnn.c...dex.html?hpt=C1

.. and, can we spell his name right yet? How is it supposed to be spelled for Gob's sake! Osama? or Usama?... how does his mama spell it!? Can that be so friggin hard to find out!? lol.. just always bugged me that all of the brilliant news pundits, and the entire U.S. government can't, effectively and in agreement, get to the bottom of even THAT great and profound mystery!*!*!*!*! I suppose I could find out.. but sheesh! do i have to do everything around here!?

That photo was proven fake, there is a story about it if you look it up. It was not released by the government.

[Space Commander Travis]

I think it was better to kill him, personally. Where would we have held him? How much would it have cost to protect that facility? I can understand that it seems surreal and so fast after 10 long years, but this is all around about the best intelligence operation we have ever pulled off and it was because of diligence and planning. They thought of everything before they acted. What to do with him if they captured him, what to do with him if they killed him. What to do if it was another high ranking Al-Qaeda member. They build mock compounds and practiced for weeks. They warned the British government that it might not be safe for royal couple to travel, and made them believe it without giving it away. They waited until the wedding was over just in case. Never in the history of the US has a secret operation stayed secret for this long. It was very impressive.

And the result of those years of planning? Unanswered questions, suspicion even among those not hitherto given to suspicion, and surely the opportunity of an intelligence goldmine, and the chance to finally knock on the head all the rumours about 9/11, wasted- literally. And they'd planned that that was what they were going to do if they killed him? They didn't even think about obtaining any solid and indisputable proof? That all sounds like rather a bungled operation to me, sorry.

[Space Commander Travis]

Tell me : What is the officially correct spelling of the leader of Libya? I can think of at least three different spellings and ways of pronouncing it used by various sources and he's been a thorn in our side since the Reagan era...

مُعَمَّر ٱلْقَذَّافِيّ‎ .

[FurthurBB]

And the result of those years of planning? Unanswered questions, suspicion even among those not hitherto given to suspicion, and surely the opportunity of an intelligence goldmine, and the chance to finally knock on the head all the rumours about 9/11, wasted- literally. And they'd planned that that was what they were going to do if they killed him? They didn't even think about obtaining any solid and indisputable proof? That all sounds like rather a bungled operation to me, sorry.

Well, it wasn't years, it was 6 weeks. I do not think that there is any credible suspicion, and the questions can get answered much better without him. Do you really think he would give us anything? I do not, he was trained by us and always understood us better than we understood him. What solid proof are you looking for? They found mountains of data at the house, how do you know that the very thing that would give you an aha moment isn't in those documents. I am sorry, but I think it sounds bungled to you because it is what you want to hear.

[Lilly]

...The guy was a monster. I get that, intellectually. I just personally can't share in the emotions of it is all... if you can, more power to you because, to be honest, I think I might be in the wrong here...

It might be because it was all so close to home for me. You see, I'm originally from New York state and my parents actually lived on Long Island during the time period the World Trade Center was being built. I'd go to visit them via the train (I was in college upstate) and could see the the construction in progress. The airplanes were also hijacked from Boston (near where I live now). 911 was just all too 'up close and personal for me', it still leaves me with a horrific feeling.

And no, I don't think you're wrong for not wanting to feel any joy in the death of another human being. I just suspect the event didn't hit you as personally as it did others.

[Wookietim]

It might be because it was all so close to home for me. You see, I'm originally from New York state and my parents actually lived on Long Island during the time period the World Trade Center was being built. I'd go to visit them via the train (I was in college upstate) and could see the the construction in progress. The airplanes were also hijacked from Boston (near where I live now). 911 was just all too 'up close and personal for me', it still leaves me with a horrific feeling.

And no, I don't think you're wrong for not wanting to feel any joy in the death of another human being. I just suspect the event didn't hit you as personally as it did others.

I was in the Navy when 9/11 happened. I ended up being involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Later on, I saw a friend killed by an IED. I am personally affected by terrorism and Al Queda. And I somewhat dislike being told that I am not personally affected by it.

I don't resent your feeling about this. But I do resent your condescending attitude about what I am personally affected by and what I am not.

[Lilly]

I was in the Navy when 9/11 happened. I ended up being involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Later on, I saw a friend killed by an IED. I am personally affected by terrorism and Al Queda. And I somewhat dislike being told that I am not personally affected by it.

I don't resent your feeling about this. But I do resent your condescending attitude about what I am personally affected by and what I am not.

Ok, then you're morally superior to me, as I would feel a great deal of anger were I in your position.

BTW, I was not trying to be condescending toward you, just attempting to explain why I feel the way I do. I'm through with this discussion now.

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

Suppose that BL had actually died long ago, but the ghost of him had been glowering over the West all this time. Al Q would be only too happy to go along with that pretence, wouldn't they. Now that the US (let's suppose) has publickly announced what did in fact happen (supposing for the sake of argument) long ago, why not change strategy? Now they can launch a campaign of reprisal, using this as their justification.

Because the way that they function as a group does not seem to fit into the above mold. You would have to believe not one, but two (possibly even more) conspiracy theories in order for the above to work. Sadly, as much as we enjoy conspiracy theories, behavior patterns of people are much more predictable than conspiracy theorists would have us believe. Even with an unpredictable group such as this.

While I agree the first part is plausible, I don't see the second as remotely within their range. Why would they suddenly decide to play along when they could get much more "support" by exposing America as a "weak" nation? They already, in their warped way, have justification for everything they do. There would be far less satisfaction, on their part, in playing along than exposing the lie. In other words, their motivation to expose would be much greater than the motivation to play along. There is more gain in the first than the second. Sure, you can come up to several reasons as to why they would do that, but keep in mind what I said. . .behavioral patterns are predictable. The odds are MUCH more likely to fall into the realm of greater gain for them than the opposite. There would have to be outstanding circumstances present, in which case another conspiracy theory would have to be dreamed up to manage.

[J.B.]

I was in the Navy when 9/11 happened. I ended up being involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Later on, I saw a friend killed by an IED. I am personally affected by terrorism and Al Queda. And I somewhat dislike being told that I am not personally affected by it.

I don't resent your feeling about this. But I do resent your condescending attitude about what I am personally affected by and what I am not.

She used the word suspect, and didn't know your own experience ahead of time.

My dad was up in New York, an hour outside the city, when 9/11 happened. I knew he was safe, he was too far away. That didn't mean I wasn't worried for him just in case. We were happy to hear from him when he called.

IF the United States and our allies are vigilant, we can keep reprisal from being horrific. IF the enemies take revenge to begin with. Lots of ifs, really. We don't know enough yet to make a decision about what next, though I'm happy we got the documents from the compound.

I can see the difficulties with it, but I think it would have been better if we'd captured him alive and stuck him somewhere safe. Make his followers come out of hiding. As it is, if we're to do anything against his followers, we'll have to do so with the cooperation of foreign governments. Governments which may actually be harboring them. If that's the case, we might end up gaining more enemies. Ultimately, if Al Qaeda had been forced out of hiding to get back their leader, we would have gained some sympathy on the world stage. Sympathy we could have used to do the job better. And if those Islamists had hit targets on their own home soil, it could have spurred the locals to take responsibility for wiping out the threat. Most of the Islamist threat is, by nature, localized to its home nations. Only Al Qaeda is really aimed at the "West."

[Ozner]

About capturing him alive: I don't think that was possible because some sources state that Osama Bin Laden may have actually been armed and involved in the firefight. It would be too dangerous for the Navy Seals to try to find some way of capturing him while he was armed and shooting back.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Ozner

[Rastaman]

About capturing him alive: I don't think that was possible because some sources state that Osama Bin Laden may have actually been armed and involved in the firefight. It would be too dangerous for the Navy Seals to try to find some way of capturing him while he was armed and shooting back.

Incoming: Hollywood movie on the killing of Osama Bin Laden

[J.B.]

The possibility of gas cannisters of some kind existed, I'm sure. Sleeping or tear gas. Shoot a few in strategic places and hunker down to see if he shoots back. Granted, I concede the possibility that you're right about it not being possible, I'm just not aware of the judgement on that one way or another.

[Ozner]

The possibility of gas cannisters of some kind existed, I'm sure. Sleeping or tear gas. Shoot a few in strategic places and hunker down to see if he shoots back. Granted, I concede the possibility that you're right about it not being possible, I'm just not aware of the judgement on that one way or another.

In the heat of battle they may not have even been aware that they were fighting Osama Bin Laden.

[ploppy]

So one man's body double dies and an entire country increases in it's obnoxiousness?

Is it cool for the people in the Middle East to party when a US soilder who's part of a team that bombs the homes of families dies?

[lightly]

That photo was proven fake, there is a story about it if you look it up. It was not released by the government.

Right. Thanks. At first i jumped to the conclusion that the faked photo = fake story... because, I assumed that it came from an official source. .. and hadn't seen the two pictures from which the composite was made. Only the picture of a living Bin Laden.. and the composite... (which also included parts of the photo of the dead guy.) I still don't know what to Believe about any of it though.

[ChloeB]

About capturing him alive: I don't think that was possible because some sources state that Osama Bin Laden may have actually been armed and involved in the firefight. It would be too dangerous for the Navy Seals to try to find some way of capturing him while he was armed and shooting back.

Yeah, that's what they're saying is they planned for if he surrendered what they'd do and he didn't want to go without a fight, even used a woman as a human shield, so if that's how it went down, they probably didn't have much choice. Supposedly they've got a video he left to be played if he was killed and they're going to release it, I think. That might help people believe it was really him that they killed, maybe, lol.

[DONTEATUS]

So one man's body double dies and an entire country increases in it's obnoxiousness?

Is it cool for the people in the Middle East to party when a US soilder who's part of a team that bombs the homes of families dies?

All I can Say is OMG ! ploppy please clear up somthing for me ! Do you Think Bin Laden wasnt Killed? And that the Brave Navy Seals Team6 to be exact

Were not knowing exactly what they wer doing?

This needs to be cleared up !

America has no room for These kinds of people Killing Innocent People in this country for the Belief system that Al Qaeda stands for.

Sad to think that a murder Like Him was Let Go for So Long at anyones expence!

Thank You Navy Seal Team6