Osama Bin Laden Dead

[+Link of Hyrule]

Plus he should also get a mention in the Guinness Book of World Records - That must have been the longest game of hide and seek in history..!

Just to bring a little humour into a thread that's been quite the heavy goer, according to the Olympic Hide and Seek finals, the World Record time was 11 years, 2 months, 26 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes and 27.4 seconds. Highlights of the Olympic final are as below:

Thanks for reading, hope it's settled some of the tensions

[ExpandMyMind]

First, psyche, you gave me a lengthy reply, which I appreciate, and I will get to replying to you in good time.

But I just found out that there is actually no footage of the attack. There was NO LIVE FOOTAGE.

Which means that this is yet another lie told about the situation, which casts further doubt on the US official version of events. After all, the propaganda photo above, we were told, was a photot taken while Obama and his crew were watching the live feed. Look how interested Obama is.. interested in a blank screen?

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html

Edited May 5, 2011 by expandmymind

[Q24]

IS this Bin Laden or not? He does not seem to have a gun to his head.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/osama-bin-laden-mastermind-of-9-11-attacks-25084752

The mans words from his own mouth, surely no-one is going to say the US forced him to do this? He made a threat 3 weeks before the attack that he was going to hurt America, was that merely co-incidence?

This is bin Laden... Yes.

His words come from his own mouth... apparently not.

Independent Arabic translators found the White House subtitles to be both inaccurate and manipulative: -

Arabist Dr. Abdel El M. Husseini, one of the translators, states,

"I have carefully examined the Pentagon's translation. This translation is very problematic. At the most important places where it is held to prove the guilt of Bin Laden, it is not identical with the Arabic."

Whereas the White House would have us believe that OBL admits that "We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy.", translator Dr. Murad Alami finds that:

"'In advance' is not said. The translation is wrong.

At least when we look at the original Arabic, and there are no misunderstandings to allow us to read it into the original."

At another point, the White House translation reads: "We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day." Dr. Murad Alami:

"'Previous' is never said. The subsequent statement that this event would take place on that day cannot be heard in the original Arabic version."

The White House's version also included the sentence "we asked each of them to go to America", but Alami says the original formulation is in the passive along the lines of "they were required to go". He also say that the sentence afterwards - "they didn't know anything about the operation" - cannot be understood.

Prof. Gernot Rotter, professor of Islamic and Arabic Studies at the Asia-Africa Institute at the University of Hamburg sums it up:

"The American translators who listened to the tapes and transcribed them apparently wrote a lot of things in that they wanted to hear but that cannot be heard on the tape no matter how many times you listen to it."

http://www.rense.com/general18/inac.htm

The original article revealing this information is available but in German... which ironically does not translate ideally through Babblefish... which is why I have linked Rense above.

So what we see in the videotape is a discussion about the attacks in the past tense (well they are actually garbling on about dreams and premonitions they supposedly had in the section of the video you linked). I would even go so far as to say there is indication that bin Laden knew of the hijackers - we knew the hijackers became affiliated with 'Al Qaeda' anyhow (whatever exactly 'Al Qaeda' is) - we knew that bin Laden actually met at least some of the hijackers. But then, there are a number of interesting people in the intelligence services who met with the hijackers.

What the videotape does not show is bin Laden's foreknowledge of the attacks to any level that could be held up in a court of law. The FBI admitted this in 2006 when they said they had, "no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11".

[Beckys_Mom]

Ancient? The articles are from 2001 right after 9/11.

You ask, where was his trial? Yes indeed. On more than one occassion the Taliban demanded evidence from the U.S. showing bin Laden's responsibility for the 9/11 attack before they would turn him over for trial. The U.S. showed no interest in this offer and so it never happened.

Why do I expect anyone to believe bin Laden was under house arrest? Maybe because the article states he was placed, "under house arrest" and the Taliban spokesman states, "We have placed him under control after the attacks". I don't know how much more simple it could be.

Why does the article state bin Laden was placed under house arrest in Afghanistan and not Pakistan? Because obviously he was located in Afghanistan immediately after the attack. The later article states, "Omar [the Taliban leader] agreed that bin Laden should be taken to Pakistan, where he would be held under house arrest in Peshawar." Peshawar is not Abbottabad but it is very close - he may have been held there before being transferred to his new custom-built compound.

As I said, the details are changing by the moment - first bin Laden was armed and used his wife as a human shield, then his wife 'rushed' the U.S. forces, now bin Laden was not armed and his wife was. I don't think we can put much faith in these reports until a definite story comes out.

Further you are ignoring the important aspect that bin Laden himself was said to have approved of the Taliban/ISI plan for his house-arrest. If you look-up what house arrest actually is you will see it is not necessarily a high-security facility but more a control measure - one that bin Laden may have felt secure in (what with seemingly half the world after him).

To sum up - basically you are telling me that you believe everything you read, espeically when it comes from the Taliban <-- I mean no thugs/terrorists ever lied to anyone before?

[Beckys_Mom]

First, psyche, you gave me a lengthy reply, which I appreciate, and I will get to replying to you in good time.

But I just found out that there is actually no footage of the attack. There was NO LIVE FOOTAGE.

Which means that this is yet another lie told about the situation, which casts further doubt on the US official version of events. After all, the propaganda photo above, we were told, was a photot taken while Obama and his crew were watching the live feed. Look how interested Obama is.. interested in a blank screen?

The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events.

http://www.telegraph...n-compound.html

Asked how Mr Obama reacted when he received the news that bin Laden had been killed, Mr Brennan recalled that the president had said "We got him".

Mr Brennan said he would not reveal details "about what types of visuals we had or what type of feeds that were there but it was - it gave us the ability to actually track it on an ongoing basis". click-> Sky News

As you can see, on the report from Sky News, although their head line is - Obama Watches Live Feed ...Mr Brennan NEVER actualy reveals what it is they were watching...he refused to comment. ... Basically this is just another example of news corporations hyping up a story to grab peoples attention. As you will always find, it is nearly always the media who will lie the most!

Edited May 5, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[Q24]

To sum up - basically you are telling me that you believe everything you read, espeically when it comes from the Taliban <-- I mean no thugs/terrorists ever lied to anyone before?

Nice try but that is not even close to anything I have said.

There is reported by the British media to be more than one source here - first the Taliban embassy in Pakistan and then an individual from the delegation of Gen. Musharraf and Wendy Chamberlain, America's ambassador to Pakistan. If anyone knew bin Laden's status immediately following 9/11 then these connections did - they are as reliable as anything else we have. It fits with what we do know of bin Laden's movements and further he is found under conditions and a location which would compare well with these early reports.

It appears rather more like you are writing off this whole story and surrounding information due to a personal preference you have. And why do you have that preference anyway - what problem do you have with Pakistani sources knowing of bin Ladens' whereabouts all along? Are you trying to protect Pakistan? Tell us your theory.

[Beckys_Mom]

Thanks for reading, hope it's settled some of the tensions

Let me know when someone actually find Waldo lol

[Beckys_Mom]

Nice try but that is not even close to anything I have said.

There is reported by the British media to be more than one source here - first the Taliban embassy in Pakistan and then an individual from the delegation of Gen. Musharraf and Wendy Chamberlain, America's ambassador to Pakistan. If anyone knew bin Laden's status immediately following 9/11 then these connections did - they are as reliable as anything else we have. It fits with what we do know of bin Laden's movements and further he is found under conditions and a location which would compare well with these early reports.

I was right.. you do believe a bunch of no good terrorist thugs

It appears rather more like you are writing off this whole story and surrounding information due to a personal preference you have. And why do you have that preference anyway - what problem do you have with Pakistani sources knowing of bin Ladens' whereabouts all along? Are you trying to protect Pakistan? Tell us your theory.

I'm not trying to protect anyone... I believe he is dead..and that's that

[+Link of Hyrule]

Let me know when someone actually find Waldo lol

I found him, but he resisted, so I had to kill him. And just to make sure that I appeased Waldonian customs, we had to dump the body. No, I don't have photos

[Space Commander Travis]

Asked how Mr Obama reacted when he received the news that bin Laden had been killed, Mr Brennan recalled that the president had said "We got him".

Which I seem to recall was exactly what mr. G.W. said when Saddam was found in his hole in the ground. You might have thought Mr. Obama (who's different in every way from Bush) might've come up with something a bit more statesmanlike.

[Space Commander Travis]

The Taliban have an embassy?

[Beckys_Mom]

Which I seem to recall was exactly what mr. G.W. said when Saddam was found in his hole in the ground. You might have thought Mr. Obama (who's different in every way from Bush) might've come up with something a bit more statesmanlike.

What do you expect him to say? ..By jove I believe we got him, jolly good show chaps?... Yippie-ki-yay, mothertrucker?.... Ding Dong the wicked Bin Laddin is dead?...BINGO!!?

We got him, oh yea it's my birthday, it's my birthday? ....He shoots, he scores, and it was a BEAUTY? ......

Edited May 5, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[Q24]

I was right.. you do believe a bunch of no good terrorist thugs

I'm not trying to protect anyone... I believe he is dead..and that's that

You think that by grouping all sources (rightly or wrongly), including one reported from a delegation including an American diplomat, under the heading "no good terrorist thugs" that automatically makes any and all information they disclose invalid. Even when there is no apparent purpose to fabricate this information and it is also found to fit well with bin Laden's known movements, circumstance and final location. I would have to call that an emotional argument.

And then you infer all you actually care is, "he is dead..and that's that" (a point I agree with).

So what is your argument against bin Laden being effectively held by Pakistani sources again?

Or you don't actually have one?

You just wanted to point out that I used "no good terrorist thugs" to assist coming to that conclusion?

[Beckys_Mom]

I found him, but he resisted, so I had to kill him. And just to make sure that I appeased Waldonian customs, we had to dump the body. No, I don't have photos

Poor Waldo..

[Beckys_Mom]

You think that by grouping all sources (rightly or wrongly), including one reported from a delegation including an American diplomat, under the heading "no good terrorist thugs" that automatically makes any and all information they disclose invalid. Even when there is no apparent purpose to fabricate this information and it is also found to fit well with bin Laden's known movements, circumstance and final location. I would have to call that an emotional argument.

And then you infer all you actually care is, "he is dead..and that's that" (a point I agree with).

So what is your argument against bin Laden being effectively held by Pakistani sources again?

Or you don't actually have one?

You just wanted to point out that I used "no good terrorist thugs" to assist coming to that conclusion?

Yeaa.. sure whatever you so wish to ...............think...!!

[Space Commander Travis]

What do you expect him to say? ..By jove I believe we got him, jolly good show chaps?... Yippie-ki-yay, mothertrucker?.... Ding Dong the wicked Bin Laddin is dead?...BINGO!!?

We got him, oh yea it's my birthday, it's my birthday? ....He shoots, he scores, and it was a BEAUTY? ......

yes, something like that. "I say, jolly well done, chaps".

I always think that politicians, in any situation, ought to follow the principle WWCD; What Would Churchill Do? If Winston had been told, over a cigar one morning, that Hitler was dead, how would he have reacted? Would he have come out with some witty aphorism? I bet he would.

[preacherman76]

IS this Bin Laden or not? He does not seem to have a gun to his head.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/osama-bin-laden-mastermind-of-9-11-attacks-25084752

The mans words from his own mouth, surely no-one is going to say the US forced him to do this? He made a threat 3 weeks before the attack that he was going to hurt America, was that merely co-incidence?

Probably not. The CIA has admited to faking OBL tapes in the past.

The agency actually did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden and his cronies sitting around a campfire swigging bottles of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys, one of the former CIA officers recalled, chuckling at the memory. The actors were drawn from “some of us darker-skinned employees,” he said.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/05/cia_group_had_wacky_ideas_to_d.html

[Beckys_Mom]

yes, something like that. "I say, jolly well done, chaps".

I always think that politicians, in any situation, ought to follow the principle WWCD; What Would Churchill Do? If Winston had been told, over a cigar one morning, that Hitler was dead, how would he have reacted? Would he have come out with some witty aphorism? I bet he would.

Churchill would say....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv0SvfHgj4k

OHH YES..!

[preacherman76]

Which I seem to recall was exactly what mr. G.W. said when Saddam was found in his hole in the ground. You might have thought Mr. Obama (who's different in every way from Bush) might've come up with something a bit more statesmanlike.

Maybe in words, but certainly not in actions. Very little has changed at all from the last administration to this one.

[lightly]

Probably not. The CIA has admited to faking OBL tapes in the past.

*snip*

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/05/cia_group_had_wacky_ideas_to_d.html

Not even close...

I don't know who the guy in that video was. ( still from video ..top left in the image below).. but he wasn't Usama bin Laden. As anyone can plainly see.

It looks like Osama bin Laden was killed the other day. It also looks like he had been voluntarily held there for years. i have huge doubts as to whether he was responsible for 9-11.. but , that's a different topic... i guess.

Edited May 5, 2011 by lightly

[+Link of Hyrule]

Poor Waldo..

Poor Waldo indeed (or Wally, in my nick of the woods - Where's Wally always trumped Waldo....).

Though on the subject, this does remind me of a book I have on my bookshelf, along similar lines. WHERE'S BIN LADEN. Same concept as Waldo/Wally, but it has scenarios with bin Laden and his henchmen. It was a favourite book of mine for a while there

[Rastaman]

Does anyone know where to find the tape right after 9/11 in which Osama spoke about 9/11 and how he was the one who masterminded it?

[Space Commander Travis]

Maybe in words, but certainly not in actions. Very little has changed at all from the last administration to this one.

Shh... don't say that around here... people will doubt your sanity

[Rastaman]

Shh... don't say that around here... people will doubt your sanity

I agree with him.

The only people doubting his sanity are those so deeply decieved by the two party paradigm.

[ChloeB]

Hi Chloe. I think only a few people really know what happened behind the scenes of this intrigue and they're never going to tell us poor sods, but definitely there is more to it than meets the eye. Take for example the imputation that Bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11.

The guy always denied involvement, which is quite surprising for someone that hated and declared jihad against the US. You would have thought he would have worn the label of "the mastermind of 9/11" as a big achievement , a badge of honour to display and gloat in front of the rest of the world. Yet, nothing, nada.

Take Bin Laden's death and the latest announcement that Obama does not want to make the photos of his body public. Why? Because it might incite more violence. More violence from who? Al Qaeda, Hamas, the Taliban, the Muslim Brotherhood... I thought the US was fighting a "War on Terror". Are they afraid of antagonising the enemy? LOL, Maybe Obama's decided to win the War on Terror through hugs and kisses.

There's no clarity with the public in this whole story IMO (specially to the American public who have suffered the loss of friends and family members during 9/11 and consequent wars) and this lack of clarity goes back to the CIA involvement, post Soviet-Afghan war.

Hey there! Yeah, I honestly don't know what to make of it all. At first, I thought they should show the picture, but then I thought well if it wouldn't prove anything to anyone, then why chance it. This whole burial deal in 24 hours, okay, so they did that out of respect for Muslims, but then you hear them saying that he killed more Muslims than anyone else, so would they want a nice little ceremony for him or to have reliable confirmation that the person responsible for that is truly dead? I agree with you, there is a lack of clarity. It seems like anything that would be something substantial to show it was really him, they fall back on being respectful. And same for them doing all the stuff for his burial in accordance with Muslim beliefs, no one knows if they did so it seems kind of pointless as that is the reason the body is gone so fast, unless they seriously think they would all be satisfied to take their word for it. It wouldn't seem like it really matters. They could have just tossed him over and not said a word, and I imagine that's what is going on in the minds of many Muslims that are supposed to think that was sure a nice, respectful thing to do. If it was really him, and they got rid of him fast, and I have serious doubts the Islamic tradition has anything to do with it.