Osama Bin Laden Dead

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, let's see, if the orders were to take him alive, the Seals would have done that. The fact that Obama is president, and Osama was killed makes more people think that they may have disobeyed orders. Whatever.

No, I don't doubt they obeyed orders. but thsoe orders, as is obvious, came right from the very top. So why did Obama authorise his assasination, and not to take him alive? That's what I find suspicious.

So, you would rather the US keep Osama's body, disrepescting Islamic beliefs? Did you forget that less than 24 hours after Saddam was hugn, he was buried? And many people were claiming that wasn't him and that it was too fast.

Does anyone really believe that the U.S. Govt., even the caring Obama one, would give two hoots about offending islamic sensibilities?

And yes, Saddam's lynching was a precedent, wasn't it. And look how much credibility that gave the U.S. govt. around the world. Did anyone notice a particular upsurge in sympathy among Islamic countries because they treated Saddam's body with due respect? Surely the first and most basic thing they would do would be to make sure to have independent verification of the identity of the body, and they'd release the proof (in so far as it didn't jeopardise security or anything like that) to show beyodn reasonable doubt that it was the right target and there was no toher way that they could have done it. Tehy're just asking everyone to believe them, because they're the government. And it really is not just conspiracy enthusiasts who don't automatically always do that now. Surely the Obama administration would realise that.

Angry about what? That they disposed of the body? Or that if they kept the body, they would upset Muslims? Please be more specific.

Angry that they assassinated him.

So yeah... if you think it's suspicious, then you either know nothing about the military, where we are operating bases out of, or of anything that the government is doing.... or you are a PCN (you DO know what THAT means, right?)

if anyone thinks it's suspicious, that shows that they know nothing about what the govt. is doing? I suspect that many would beg to differ.

As to PCN, Well, what i've found is...

PCN may refer to:

Pacific Investment Management PCN (stock symbol), PIMCO Corporate Income Fund of Allianz, Germany

Partido de Conciliación Nacional, a political party in El Salvador

Partidul Comuniştilor Nepecerişti, a political party in Romania

Pavement Classification Number, a code classifying different kinds of surface at airports

Pecked curvilinear nucleated, in archaeology, a form of preshistoric rock carving

Penalty Charge Notice, an FPN issued by parking attendants

Penicillin (abbreviation)

Pennsylvania Cable Network, non-profit cable television network of Pennsylvania, United States

Personal Communications Network, mobile telephone system, Europe

Picton Airport, New Zealand

Polychlorinated naphthalene, an organic pollutant

Potato cyst nematode, an agricultural pest

Program Composition Notation, a language for parallel programming

Putnam City North High School

pcn is also the name of the OpenBSD AMD PCnet-PCI 10/100 Ethernet device driver

Pcn, the abbreviation for orchid genus Polycycnis

Am I anywhere close?

Edited May 4, 2011 by 747400

[Beckys_Mom]

You're not??

Nah, I just like my user ID..and I love to look after a 5 yr old girl, feed her, dress her, let her live with me, help her when she needs me, teach her things...you know mothery stuff ..opps and there is that little incident of what they described as giving birth to her over 5 years ago, I bearly recall it..it stung a bit though lol.......but I am NOT a mother

Take a look at the above....the parts not in bold..is me painting a great picture of being a mother.....the bolded part is sarcasim... I was taking the p*** out of -expandmyrmind ...but in a fun way

[Q24]

No, I don't doubt they obeyed orders. but thsoe orders, as is obvious, came right from the very top. So why did Obama authorise his assasination, and not to take him alive? That's what I find suspicious.

Yes, this was a definite 'kill' rather than 'capture' operation.

It would not have suited the U.S. to put bin Laden on trial.

As to PCN, Well, what i've found is...

Am I anywhere close?

I think he's calling you a Potato cyst nematode

[Beckys_Mom]

lol feeling awfy sarcastic today, no?

Just today? HA...try every day...I was poking fun..but not in a pbarosso style manner...more of a funny kind of sarcasim...

honestly don't class myself as a liberal. Or a tory/republican/rightist. Other people can feel free to label me whatever they wish, but I have way to many 'right-wing' beliefs to be accepted into that camp. I don't fit in either to be honest

What's with all the labels? Our brains aren't split down the middle. I judge each situation and issue seperately and according to their own sets of circumstances

Hmmmmm..see it could be you don't see it? You paint a very good picture of one who is liberal minded..and perhaps you just don't see what others may see

Never worry over being called a liberal.. I personally have been labled worse...

[explorer]

The head of the CIA said - that a pic of Bin Ladins body will most likely be released soon...but the footage of the actual raid - wont

They'll release something sooner rather than later. Can't trust US Govt announcements.

Burying the body at sea to preclude a shrine will be moot if the blatantly obvious question builds. Is he really dead? Is he being held captive somewhere?

Better to just say he's dead than have to put him on trial on nebulous charges? Imagine what else might come out or have to be suppressed at trial. Too many complications.

If indeed he's dead, a bullet or two would have been the obvious essence of the mission.

48 hrs later the US Govt is being reported as changing it's tune (or is it the media?)

At first Bin Laden was armed, now he wasn't. At first he used a woman as a human shield, now he didn't.

So what really happened?

[lightly]

I'd go a step further...

There never has been a structured group named 'Al Qaeda' further than the CIA/ISI defined during Operation Cyclone. Until 2004, bin Laden himself did not identify with the term and had conveyed his dislike for the name. He referred to his followers as the 'Mujahideen' and coined 'Al Qaeda' as a Western creation.

'Al Qaeda' is whatever the West want it to be.

I agree.. i've never seen anyone say "i am a member of Al Qaeda". I've only heard the term come out of the mouths of politicians, military spokespersons, news pundits, and misinformed people .

[Black Red Devil]

I never had any doubt he was. We would surely have seen a "heroes" burial given to him by his buddies all over Al Jazeera if he would have died before he "resisted arrest".

I just did not expect him so obviously in Pakistan.

It's a pretty peculiar situation in Pakistan.

According to senior US politicians in this article, you have about a dozen of the "most wanted" Al Qaeda leaders roaming around the country freely, but the Pakistani Govt seems to play the part of the most staunch ally to the US to the point where they didn't even bother complaining or objecting to the fact the US conducted a military attack within the territory, without consent.

Also controversially, there are strong anti-US/pro-Taliban sentiments amongst a wide spread of the population, but there are also many with pro-western sentiments.

[Black Red Devil]

I'd go a step further...

There never has been a structured group named 'Al Qaeda' further than the CIA/ISI defined during Operation Cyclone. Until 2004, bin Laden himself did not identify with the term and had conveyed his dislike for the name. He referred to his followers as the 'Mujahideen' and coined 'Al Qaeda' as a Western creation.

'Al Qaeda' is whatever the West want it to be.

Yep. A name's a name.

Accordingly to what I've read, the CIA aid to the mujahedin began during 1980, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanista­n.

In 1986, the CIA had backed the ISI plan to recruit people from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. More than 100,000 Islamic militants were trained in Pakistan between 1986 and 1992, in camps overseen by the CIA and MI6.

Their leaders were trained at a CIA camp in Virginia (Operation Cyclone). Just to put it in perspective, the Soviets withdrew in 1989!!

Edited May 4, 2011 by BlackRedLittleDevil

[Beckys_Mom]

They'll release something sooner rather than later. Can't trust US Govt announcements.

Burying the body at sea to preclude a shrine will be moot if the blatantly obvious question builds. Is he really dead? Is he being held captive somewhere?

Here's what I was just thinking.....

Why come up with a fake report 10 years after the 9/11?? why wait 10 years to make up a story??

He would either have to be dead OR being held by the Americans....for if he wasn't ..don't you think Bin Laddin would be on video on line to prove the Americans wrong?? and trust me - he would...way before now

Plus, what would the Americans have to gain, by holding him captive and keeping him alive??? there is no real reason..Better off dead and out of the way

Edited May 4, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[Space Commander Travis]

I agree.. i've never seen anyone say "i am a member of Al Qaeda". I've only heard the term come out of the mouths of politicians, military spokespersons, news pundits, and misinformed people .

Or the favorite catch-all phrase, whenever someone is arrested as a Suspected Terrorist or there's some amateurish attempt at setting off a home-made bomb somewhere, "they are believed to have links to al Qaeda". What an infinitely stretchable phrase that is. It does sound remarkably like Senator McCarthy's attempts to connect whoever his chosen target was to the vast Communist Conspiracy lurking behind everything.

[TSS]

Taking Bin Laden alive would have been political suicide. Having that lanky idiot squirrelled away in some CIA hell-hole would just be asking for kidnappings and attacks in exchange for his release....politically it's better that he's fish food.

[itsnotoutthere]

Does anybody here actually believe that the pakistanis didn't know where he was? & are we to believe that they are in any way making an effort to fight terrorism.

[TSS]

Does anybody here actually believe that the pakistanis didn't know where he was? & are we to believe that they are in any way making an effort to fight terrorism.

They are and they're not....and have certainly lost a lot of troops so far, so they can't be accused of doing nothing. To be fair to Pakistan they are in an incredibly difficult position, and have bigger priorities then appeasing Western interests....in the job they have of juggling two very hot potatoes (western interests and their entrenched paranoia of India) I don't think they are doing to bad...

[Space Commander Travis]

Taking Bin Laden alive would have been political suicide. Having that lanky idiot squirrelled away in some CIA hell-hole would just be asking for kidnappings and attacks in exchange for his release....politically it's better that he's fish food.

politically better? The leader (supposedly) of the most dangerous terror network on earth (supposedly)? Is it only me, or am I the only one that thinks that there might have been some intelligence value in holding him? And it's politically better that the U.S. is seen by the world (those parts of it outside the flag-waving sycophants in the British tabloids) as a gang of gunslingers that now feel that it's perfectly ok to go storming in to wherever in the world they want in order to rub out whoever they want, purely because they say that it's legal and a legitimate act of war? That this was authorised, and watched live on TV, by the president, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize? Was that a good decision politically? You do realise that if the U.S. wants anyone to take it seriously as a judge and moral arbiter, they're going to have to rely on the Big Stick and fear of Team Six descending on you, since it's shot the legs it had to stand on out from under it in terms of having any kind of moral or legal authority?

[conspiracybeliever]

I have no idea what "really happened" here but I highly doubt this had anything thing to do with Obama's low ratings, if they are that low, I don't see it...or an upcoming election. People who didn't like Obama before are the same people claiming it was to get Obama re-elected or claiming fame for Dubya.

And as far as throwing his body overboard or the "burial at sea" , I think that would have been a message to his followers and not the American public or the people in general simply because when have they ever cared about what we think?

[Black Red Devil]

Does anybody here actually believe that the pakistanis didn't know where he was? & are we to believe that they are in any way making an effort to fight terrorism.

Well...you have those who believe he was already dead and it's all a smokescreen (like moi), you have those who believe he was killed and the Pakistani Govt were unaware of his presence, you have those who believe he was killed and the Pakistani Govt knew he was there and were concealing his safety for unknown reasons and finally, you have those who believe in whatever their Govt tells them.

[TSS]

politically better? The leader (supposedly) of the most dangerous terror network on earth (supposedly)? Is it only me, or am I the only one that thinks that there might have been some intelligence value in holding him? And it's politically better that the U.S. is seen by the world (those parts of it outside the flag-waving sycophants in the British tabloids) as a gang of gunslingers that now feel that it's perfectly ok to go storming in to wherever in the world they want in order to rub out whoever they want, purely because they say that it's legal and a legitimate act of war? That this was authorised, and watched live on TV, by the president, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize? Was that a good decision politically? You do realise that if the U.S. wants anyone to take it seriously as a judge and moral arbiter, they're going to have to rely on the Big Stick and fear of Team Six descending on you, since it's shot the legs it had to stand on out from under it in terms of having any kind of moral or legal authority?

C'mon 747, you know as well as I do that moral and legal authority are merely lip service for the masses, they have no baring on political strategy on the worlds stage, and never have. For politics at home Obama is seen to have done a good job, keeping Bin Laden alive, and if that had led to attacks in order to bargain for his release, Obama would be finished. So politically it's better he's fish food, as for whether it's politically good on the wider stage - politicians have been queueing up to welcome his demise, so it's not going to have any negative impact on US influence abroad - as for it's influence in the Arab world - that's about money, nothing to do with moral or legal authority, and those Arab countries who have financial links with the US will keep quiet, those that don't and voice concern - they'll just be ignored, as always.

[Beckys_Mom]

Does anybody here actually believe that the pakistanis didn't know where he was? & are we to believe that they are in any way making an effort to fight terrorism.

I was saying previously.. maybe they did know, but were under terrorist threat..personal threats??

See from what I have read... Laddin didn't have any modern line of communication ( internet or telephone) for anyone to track him easy

It was a smart move on his behalf to hide out in the last place they thought to look, especially when so many throught he had fled elsewere

[Beckys_Mom]

Taking Bin Laden alive would have been political suicide. Having that lanky idiot squirrelled away in some CIA hell-hole would just be asking for kidnappings and attacks in exchange for his release....politically it's better that he's fish food.

I agree with this post.. but lanky idiot??

[TSS]

I agree with this post.. but lanky idiot??

It was the politest the filters would allow.

[Space Commander Travis]

C'mon 747, you know as well as I do that moral and legal authority are merely lip service for the masses, they have no baring on political strategy on the worlds stage, and never have. For politics at home Obama is seen to have done a good job, keeping Bin Laden alive, and if that had led to attacks in order to bargain for his release, Obama would be finished. So politically it's better he's fish food, as for whether it's politically good on the wider stage - politicians have been queueing up to welcome his demise, so it's not going to have any negative impact on US influence abroad - as for it's influence in the Arab world - that's about money, nothing to do with moral or legal authority, and those Arab countries who have financial links with the US will keep quiet, those that don't and voice concern - they'll just be ignored, as always.

So the Global Lawman will go swaggering into Dodge, slinging its guns, and the world will as usual cower before the might of Team Six, just the same as it's ever done. And Mr. Obama's Nobel Peace Prize will sit on the shelf and be polished regularly by his armies of lackies. And the huddled masses of the world will, as usual, look up at the beacon of hope and integrity that is the U.S. And the US President will speak unto the world from his position of moral high ground. And the terrorist Menace will be over, and peace and prosperity will reign. And no one will ask for any proof that it was indeed Bin Laden, because Obama has assured us, and Obama cannot lie.

[Beckys_Mom]

It was the politest the filters would allow.

Who is the lanky idiot?

Edited May 4, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[TSS]

So the Global Lawman will go swaggering into Dodge, slinging its guns, and the world will as usual cower before the might of Team Six, just the same as it's ever done. And Mr. Obama's Nobel Peace Prize will sit on the shelf and be polished regularly by his armies of lackies. And the huddled masses of the world will, as usual, look up at the beacon of hope and integrity that is the U.S. And the US President will speak unto the world from his position of moral high ground. And the terrorist Menace will be over, and peace and prosperity will reign. And no one will ask for any proof that it was indeed Bin Laden, because Obama has assured us, and Obama cannot lie.

Doubtful - more likely that things will just continue as they are....and at some point in the future the US will fall from the perch, and another one will take it place, and the same finger pointing about being the worlds policeman will come their way too, and they will also adopt a two prong strategy, doing what the hell they like on one hand, and playing 'moral and legal' politics on the other...

[TSS]

Who is the lanky idiot?

Mr Fish Food.

[Q24]

Yep. A name's a name.

Accordingly to what I've read, the CIA aid to the mujahedin began during 1980, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanista­n.

In 1986, the CIA had backed the ISI plan to recruit people from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. More than 100,000 Islamic militants were trained in Pakistan between 1986 and 1992, in camps overseen by the CIA and MI6.

Their leaders were trained at a CIA camp in Virginia (Operation Cyclone). Just to put it in perspective, the Soviets withdrew in 1989!!

A former U.S. government worker, Michael Riconosciuto, has claimed: -

"In the 1980's, Ted Gunderson , myself, and Ralph Olberg were involved in negotiations with the Afghan Mujahadeen on behalf of the US govt. Ted will verify that we had these meetings and that OSAMA BIN LADEN was present in the US under the name of TIM OSMAN. Mr. Osman was taken to special demonstrations at US military bases."

http://educate-yourself.org/tg/TCUreportexbA5feb01.shtml

Just so we know how closely these agencies were tied to bin Laden.

Even bin Laden's first trainer, Ali Mohammed, involved in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings was a CIA/Al Qaeda double-agent. Then there were other such double-agents through the 90s such as Omar Sheikh and those of a CIA operation to infiltrate Al Qaeda close to bin Laden.

Anyone who believes the CIA cut all ties with 'Al Qaeda' at the end of the Soviet-Afghan war are hopelessly optimistic. It does not pay to make such an investment and then not maintain contacts.

FBI translator, Sibel Edmonds, has confirmed that inside ties were maintained with Al Qaeda right up to 9/11. The FBI were right on the hijackers' case inside the U.S. for months before 9/11 and were fully aware of the danger but some internal authority prevented them from acting, thus the attacks went ahead.

There's far too much information along these lines - people need to research for themselves.