ChloeB Posted May 4, 2011 #651 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yup...There was a news report. Americans didn't want a gory image of Bin Laddin because 1 - Image is gory, being shot through the eye and one in the back of the head - I'm betting it's not a pretty sight......and 2 - So that the other terrorists could not use it as a propaganda tool against America...! And can you just see that photo all over the net, mocking captions made and videos and all kinds of crazy stuff, that would just make them even more ticked off. I don't know what good it would do, if you're not going to believe it, that's not going to convince you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q24 Posted May 4, 2011 #652 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Thanks just read all of that...and.... A purpose built compound to hide someone important but NO real evidence of him being under house arrest..not since the Americans are now admitting that, Bin Laddin was - unarmed BUT his wife however WAS armed <-- hardly call that house arrest IF you have access to weapons Regarding what was said at the bottom of your post in ref to the Taliban, coming to an agreement that Bin Laddin should be put under house arrest...it says NOTHING that he actually was You read my whole post and the four linked articles, had a good think about it all, decided it doesn't say what I said it says, and wrote your response... all in 11 minutes? That is impressive. You read the red text above, right? And the line in the second linked Telegraph article, "The proposal, which had bin Laden's approval..."? I don't know about bin Laden's wife being armed - they keep changing the story - perhaps take such details with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 4, 2011 #653 Share Posted May 4, 2011 And can you just see that photo all over the net, mocking captions made and videos and all kinds of crazy stuff, that would just make them even more ticked off. I don't know what good it would do, if you're not going to believe it, that's not going to convince you anyway. This gory pic would offend more then the bombs falling on there heads and the invasion of there country. Have you seen some of the video's on the net and I don't mean youtube that show western soldiers doing far worse to civilians then shooting them in the head let alone the most wanted man on the planet. They can not be anymore offended then they already are. Imo it's a weak argument not to show the pic. I don't recall a wikki leak video of a helicopter killing civilians in the street leading to more aggression. I just don't buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #654 Share Posted May 4, 2011 You read my whole post and the four linked articles, had a good think about it all, decided it doesn't say what I said it says, and wrote your response... all in 11 minutes? That is impressive. When I said - I read all of that - I meant the copy and paste job you planted for me to read... I didnt think I needed to click on the links as well.. as you hughlighted info from each one you felt was enough to be said And the line in the second linked Telegraph article, "The proposal, which had bin Laden's approval..."? Yea you are bringing up ancient articales dating right back to 2001, talking about putting him under house arrest, and putting him on trail for the crimes he commited, so what happened..where was this trial? it never happened...so WHY do you expect me to believe he was also put under house arrest?? Further more... you noted he was put under house arest in a compound in Pakistan... yet you were eager to post this...and highlight it in bright red... see below.. The terrorist leader and America's most wanted fugitive was reported by Pakistani newspapers to be under house arrest in Kandahar in the south west of Afghanistan. In purple - is NOT some compound in Pakistan <-- like what you 1st insisted to me previously...!!!So, you have NOT given me ANY evidence that he was under house arrest in the compound in which he was found in Pakistan...oh and switch on your TV.. look at the news - his wife is said to be armed <-- again, not something you can be if you are placed in house arrest now is it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #655 Share Posted May 4, 2011 And can you just see that photo all over the net, mocking captions made and videos and all kinds of crazy stuff, that would just make them even more ticked off. I don't know what good it would do, if you're not going to believe it, that's not going to convince you anyway. Pretty much like the mocking the splattered in the British tabloids when they captured Sadam years ago....least I forget the internet mocking .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted May 4, 2011 #656 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Further more... you noted he was put under house arest in a compound in Pakistan... yet you were eager to post this...and highlight it in bright red... see below.. In purple - is NOT some compound in Pakistan <-- like what you 1st insisted to me previously...!!! So, you have NOT given me ANY evidence that he was under house arrest in the compound in which he was found in Pakistan...oh and switch on your TV.. look at the news - his wife is said to be armed <-- again, not something you can be if you are placed in house arrest now is it?? Well... Not in this country at least. I am unfamiliar with the rules of house arrest in the Kandahar region of Pakistan... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 4, 2011 #657 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Well... Not in this country at least. I am unfamiliar with the rules of house arrest in the Kandahar region of Pakistan... ;-) He could have been moved from Kandahar to Pakistan before the evasion of Afganistan and it's borders locked down. Before you post it yes yes proof I don't have any. Q24 may have. Edited May 4, 2011 by The Silver Thong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #658 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well... Not in this country at least. I am unfamiliar with the rules of house arrest in the Kandahar region of Pakistan... ;-) I don't think they would allow you to carry weapons if they place you under house arrest lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted May 4, 2011 #659 Share Posted May 4, 2011 He could have been moved from Kandahar to Pakistan before the evasion of Afganistan and it's borders locked down. Or he could simply have snuck through those borders anyway... After all, it's quite obvious that he not only had the resources of his own organization but the involvement of at least a portion of the Pakistani govt, and that's quite a powerful set of resources to call upon in that region... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #660 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Or he could simply have snuck through those borders anyway... ... There's a lot you can get up to in the space of 10 years...!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 4, 2011 #661 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Or he could simply have snuck through those borders anyway... After all, it's quite obvious that he not only had the resources of his own organization but the involvement of at least a portion of the Pakistani govt, and that's quite a powerful set of resources to call upon in that region... Those are impressive connections. Now back to the Pakistani U.S. relations if Pakistan knowingly was keeping him there. Hiding the most hated man on the planet from a close allie causing 2 wars and countless dead is reason for Pakistan to fear some backlash making this whole thing get that much closer to the boiling point. Not wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted May 4, 2011 #662 Share Posted May 4, 2011 There's a lot you can get up to in the space of 10 years...!!!! 10 years and, let's face it, a rather large amount of chaos caused by the war (No matter what the US has said, common sense says that rolling blackouts, a nation in the middle of an unofficial civil war and troops from different countries that seem to have spent a few years stepping on each others toes will cause a fair amount of chaos and let a lot of people slip through). Plus, and let's face facts here, finding OBL didn't seem to be priority number one for the Bush administration after they entered Afghanistan... it was the original impetus for the US invading but then it seemed to mutate more into the "US vs the Taliban" than "The US vs Al Queda"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #663 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Before you post it yes yes proof I don't have any. Q24 may have. I won't be holding my breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted May 4, 2011 #664 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Those are impressive connections. Now back to the Pakistani U.S. relations if Pakistan knowingly was keeping him there. Hiding the most hated man on the planet from a close allie causing 2 wars and countless dead is reason for Pakistan to fear some backlash making this whole thing get that much closer to the boiling point. Not wise. You know, I wonder if parts of the Pakistani govt might not have been working almost independently of other parts... The feeling I get from looking at that country is that sometimes it's left hand doesn't really have any idea what it's right hand is doing... or even what arm that hand is attached to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 4, 2011 #665 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) There's a lot you can get up to in the space of 10 years...!!!! Hell ya especially when anything blows up there is only one man responsible weather he did it or not. In no way am I defending this scumbag BL glad he's dead no matter when or how but blaming him for everything is to easy. Edited May 4, 2011 by The Silver Thong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #666 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Plus, and let's face facts here, finding OBL didn't seem to be priority number one for the Bush administration after they entered Afghanistan... it was the original impetus for the US invading but then it seemed to mutate more into the "US vs the Taliban" than "The US vs Al Queda"... Very true..good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 4, 2011 #667 Share Posted May 4, 2011 You know, I wonder if parts of the Pakistani govt might not have been working almost independently of other parts... The feeling I get from looking at that country is that sometimes it's left hand doesn't really have any idea what it's right hand is doing... or even what arm that hand is attached to... The same could be said about the U.S. and the CIA. The CIA is almost it's own entity. I hear what your saying about Pakistan and I have no doubt about corruption there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 4, 2011 #668 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hell ya especially when anything blows up there is only one man responsible weather he did it or not. Sounds a little like me on the skeptics boards - when I see a blow out all in there fighting away....mods come in.. I stop and think - hang on was I in this one? I am sure someone will think I was regardess In now way am I defending this scumbag BL Thank goodness... glad he's dead no matter when or how but blaming him for everything is to easy. Well now look on the bright side - they can go back to saying - Satan did it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS Posted May 4, 2011 #669 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Those are impressive connections. Now back to the Pakistani U.S. relations if Pakistan knowingly was keeping him there. Hiding the most hated man on the planet from a close allie causing 2 wars and countless dead is reason for Pakistan to fear some backlash making this whole thing get that much closer to the boiling point. Not wise. I have a strong suspicion there won't be any backlash, I think the relationship will tick along as before. I haven't seen any news for about 36hrs now but i'm not aware of any complaints about CIA led operations going on in Pakistan, by the Pakistan government, likewise I expect the US to not make to much noise about whether the pakistan intelligence services knew if he was there or not. They are in a difficult situation, Pakistan I mean, Afghanistan, and the Taliban influenced border are their fall back if India start getting lively, in that regard Pakistan are trying to play two hands, and despite what the rest of the world think about this global terrorism situation, it is not a priority for the Pakistan government, they just have to be shown to care........the US obviously know this, and I suspect relations between the two will go on roughly as they have in the last 10yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 4, 2011 #670 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) I have a strong suspicion there won't be any backlash, I think the relationship will tick along as before. I haven't seen any news for about 36hrs now but i'm not aware of any complaints about CIA led operations going on in Pakistan, by the Pakistan government, likewise I expect the US to not make to much noise about whether the pakistan intelligence services knew if he was there or not. They are in a difficult situation, Pakistan I mean, Afghanistan, and the Taliban influenced border are their fall back if India start getting lively, in that regard Pakistan are trying to play two hands, and despite what the rest of the world think about this global terrorism situation, it is not a priority for the Pakistan government, they just have to be shown to care........the US obviously know this, and I suspect relations between the two will go on roughly as they have in the last 10yrs. I actually think both the U.S. and Pakistan new where he was and it was decided it was time for him to be exterminated as the wars are about to wind down. This is why neither side is freaking out about this. Edited May 4, 2011 by The Silver Thong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastaman Posted May 4, 2011 Author #671 Share Posted May 4, 2011 U.S. and Pakistan knew where he was and it was decided it was time for him to be exterminated as the wars are about to wind down. Really? Considering the troop surge to 100,000 in Afghanistan, you STILL think the war is winding down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q24 Posted May 5, 2011 #672 Share Posted May 5, 2011 When I said - I read all of that - I meant the copy and paste job you planted for me to read... I didnt think I needed to click on the links as well.. as you hughlighted info from each one you felt was enough to be said Yea you are bringing up ancient articales dating right back to 2001, talking about putting him under house arrest, and putting him on trail for the crimes he commited, so what happened..where was this trial? it never happened...so WHY do you expect me to believe he was also put under house arrest?? Further more... you noted he was put under house arest in a compound in Pakistan... yet you were eager to post this...and highlight it in bright red... see below.. In purple - is NOT some compound in Pakistan <-- like what you 1st insisted to me previously...!!! So, you have NOT given me ANY evidence that he was under house arrest in the compound in which he was found in Pakistan...oh and switch on your TV.. look at the news - his wife is said to be armed <-- again, not something you can be if you are placed in house arrest now is it?? Ancient? The articles are from 2001 right after 9/11. You ask, where was his trial? Yes indeed. On more than one occassion the Taliban demanded evidence from the U.S. showing bin Laden's responsibility for the 9/11 attack before they would turn him over for trial. The U.S. showed no interest in this offer and so it never happened. Why do I expect anyone to believe bin Laden was under house arrest? Maybe because the article states he was placed, "under house arrest" and the Taliban spokesman states, "We have placed him under control after the attacks". I don't know how much more simple it could be. Why does the article state bin Laden was placed under house arrest in Afghanistan and not Pakistan? Because obviously he was located in Afghanistan immediately after the attack. The later article states, "Omar [the Taliban leader] agreed that bin Laden should be taken to Pakistan, where he would be held under house arrest in Peshawar." Peshawar is not Abbottabad but it is very close - he may have been held there before being transferred to his new custom-built compound. As I said, the details are changing by the moment - first bin Laden was armed and used his wife as a human shield, then his wife 'rushed' the U.S. forces, now bin Laden was not armed and his wife was. I don't think we can put much faith in these reports until a definite story comes out. Further you are ignoring the important aspect that bin Laden himself was said to have approved of the Taliban/ISI plan for his house-arrest. If you look-up what house arrest actually is you will see it is not necessarily a high-security facility but more a control measure - one that bin Laden may have felt secure in (what with seemingly half the world after him). Then bin Laden is found in this compound which matches the description of a detention facility which could be used for the house arrest already described - security gates, high walls, barbed-wire, security cameras, no communications, trash burnt, excluded from the Pakistan census, in a military catchment area. The point is that the Taliban and Pakistani ISI knew where bin Laden was all along. Unless you are in denial of these reports and believe bin Laden snuck in right under their noses. I guess you think U.S. forces went in with the intention to 'capture' bin Laden as well? He could have been moved from Kandahar to Pakistan before the evasion of Afganistan and it's borders locked down. Before you post it yes yes proof I don't have any. Q24 may have. He didn't move before the invasion - in December 2001 bin Laden was being smuggled through the Tora Bora mountains at the Afghanistan/Pakistan border (as per Omar's plan to take him to Pakistan). The CIA and forces on the ground believed they could have captured him right there if U.S. Central Command had sent reinforcement and/or taken action as agents on the ground requested - but he was effectively allowed to escape. According to the 2009 U.S. Senate report on the battle of Tora Bora: - On or around December 16, two days after writing his will, bin Laden and an entourage of bodyguards walked unmolested out of Tora Bora and disappeared into Pakistan’s unregulated tribal area. Most analysts say he is still there today. The decision not to deploy American forces to go after bin Laden or block his escape was made by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld... A decision not to go after bin Laden or block his escape huh? If you know anything about Donald Rumsfeld that should be ringing alarm bells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastaman Posted May 5, 2011 Author #673 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Source or you dont prove anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 5, 2011 #674 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Really? Considering the troop surge to 100,000 in Afghanistan, you STILL think the war is winding down? I think it is going to take on a new path of occupation. As it did and is in Iraqi. Edited May 5, 2011 by The Silver Thong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted May 5, 2011 #675 Share Posted May 5, 2011 A decision not to go after bin Laden or block his escape huh? If you know anything about Donald Rumsfeld that should be ringing alarm bells. Oh ya, alarm bells for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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